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Via Garibaldi 8

Why do so many Bronx local buses go to Manhattan?

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You have only a few local buses in Queens that go to Manhattan, one (starting in January) from Brooklyn with the restoration of the B39 and of course none from Staten Island. There has been a lot of talk about more local buses going to the city from other boroughs but why so many Bronx local buses?

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Well the first thing that comes to mind is that those small East River crossings between the Bronx and Manhattan are short and are basically just a continuation of one street that's separated by water. The Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, Queensboro, and RFK/Triboro Bridges are all massive structures that have a series of entrance and exit ramps and are much longer than the Willis Avenue Bridge and the other Manhattan-Bronx crossings.

 

Also, Manhattan seems to be more connected to the Bronx not just geographical wise, but in a sense it's just an extension of Manhattan. The street numbers continue and they can look sort of similar once you go uptown enough. Also there's probably much more demand for bus service.

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I think Gorgor is mostly right here.

 

When my family lived in the Bronx, Manhattan was always a relatively easy trip that could be made pretty frequently, whether for work or for other stuff. The sheer distance of some parts of Brooklyn and Queens from Manhattan mean that trips aren't all that common and take ages if you go. Manhattan and the Bronx have always just been more closely intertwined than any other boroughs -- just look at the sports teams, Manhattan is all Yankees fans! Not like Queens and Brooklyn are both decidedly Mets fans, and I know that's a silly analogy, but it's true in a way. The boroughs are not far geographically, have many connections, and are culturally intertwined in many ways.

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Well the first thing that comes to mind is that those small East River crossings between the Bronx and Manhattan are short and are basically just a continuation of one street that's separated by water. The Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, Queensboro, and RFK bridges are all massive structures that have a series of entrance and exit ramps and are much longer than the Willis Avenue Bridge and the other Manhattan-Bronx crossings.

 

Also, Manhattan seems to be more connected to the Bronx not just geographical wise, but in a sense it's just an extension of Manhattan. The street numbers continue and they can look sort of similar once you go uptown enough. Also there's probably much more demand for bus service.

 

These are all good points. A part of me just wonders that if more local bus expansion was made for Queens and Brooklyn residents if there wouldn't be more demand. Someone also mentioned having the S79 run into the city and a few folks scoffed at the idea, but I'm wondering if that isn't such a bad idea especially with it being a SBS route. It would serve as a great alternative to the ferry and cheaper too.

 

I think Gorgor is mostly right here.

 

When my family lived in the Bronx, Manhattan was always a relatively easy trip that could be made pretty frequently, whether for work or for other stuff. The sheer distance of some parts of Brooklyn and Queens from Manhattan mean that trips aren't all that common and take ages if you go. Manhattan and the Bronx have always just been more closely intertwined than any other boroughs -- just look at the sports teams, Manhattan is all Yankees fans! Not like Queens and Brooklyn are both decidedly Mets fans, and I know that's a silly analogy, but it's true in a way. The boroughs are not far geographically, have many connections, and are culturally intertwined in many ways.

 

Yes, this is something I've noticed while riding the express buses from Midtown to Riverdale. I'm surprised at the amount of bridges from Manhattan to the Bronx. It makes me wonder though what the thought process was back in the old days... We know for example that Robert Moses had a hand in keeping Staten Island relatively isolated... Having moved to Riverdale now, I will say that I do feel rather more connected to Manhattan than I did when I lived on Staten Island and even going back to when I lived in Sheepshead Bay & Midwood in Brooklyn. And dare I say it, but the transportation connections from the Bronx to Manhattan and Riverdale to Manhattan seem to be much better and easier. lol

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I know for a fact that a lot of residents in the Bronx ride buses into Manhattan to get to subway lines such as the (1) and the (A). Many people generally don't want to have to cross from the east to west side of Manhattan after taking a nearby subway.

There is also no CrossTown subway line in the Bronx

 

The amount of subway lines that come in from Brooklyn and Queens into Manhattan are much higher than the amount that come from the Bronx. In order to meet passenger demands, the buses run to Manhattan and usually terminate near a subway station.

Edited by Kingsbridge Bus

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The fact that there's no cross-bronx subway, I think, also plays a part in it......

 

That's the funny thing though... When I use MetroNorth we cross over a bridge to get from the Bronx to Manhattan. I'm wondering with all of the bridges why there are so few subway options... Rather strange...

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That's the funny thing though... When I use MetroNorth we cross over a bridge to get from the Bronx to Manhattan. I'm wondering with all of the bridges why there are so few subway options... Rather strange...

 

 

There are many subway options, the problem is that there's no Cross-Bronx subway, as many have said, like a Fordham Road or a Tremont Avenue line...

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Yes, this is something I've noticed while riding the express buses from Midtown to Riverdale. I'm surprised at the amount of bridges from Manhattan to the Bronx. It makes me wonder though what the thought process was back in the old days..

 

 

Most of the routes dates back from the old trolley days.

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There are many subway options, the problem is that there's no Cross-Bronx subway, as many have said, like a Fordham Road or a Tremont Avenue line...

 

 

You can say that but some aren't the greatest. (2) and (5) are usually a mess for example...

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You can say that but some aren't the greatest. (2) and (5) are usually a mess for example...

 

 

I didn't say the options were good, I just said they were there. I know the (2) and (5), especially the (2), are constantly messed up...

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Queens and Brooklyn have many subway lines that will go directly to downtown/midtown in a matter of a few stops.

Edited by Quill Depot

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In addition to the geographic location, it is also demand and demographics. Thanks to minority communities with common interest on either side of the Harlem River (whether it be the Blacks between Harlem and Concourse Village, the Puerto Ricans in East Harlem and Mott Haven, and especially the Dominicans in Washington Heights/Inwood and the West Bronx), there continues to be high demand for east-west local bus service between Upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

 

In addition, many of these aforementioned Bronxites head to Upper Manhattan for simple things, such as shopping, barber shop/beauty salon, churches, family visits, nightclubs.

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In addition to the geographic location, it is also demand and demographics. Thanks to minority communities with common interest on either side of the Harlem River (whether it be the Blacks between Harlem and Concourse Village, the Puerto Ricans in East Harlem and Mott Haven, and especially the Dominicans in Washington Heights/Inwood and the West Bronx), there continues to be high demand for east-west local bus service between Upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

 

In addition, many of these aforementioned Bronxites head to Upper Manhattan for simple things, such as shopping, barber shop/beauty salon, churches, family visits, nightclubs.

 

 

So this need for local bus service has existed for many years even before these groups? The demographics you described weren't always like this. For example, Inwood was heavily Irish and Harlem was Jewish and Italian.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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So this need for local bus service has existed for many years even before these groups? The demographics you described weren't always like this. For example, Inwood was heavily Irish and Harlem was Jewish and Italian.

 

 

My guess was, at that time, there was still demand between the Bronx and Manhattan due to more transportation (the GWB Terminal and the (1) and (A) lines) and of course the shopping.

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So this need for local bus service has existed for many years even before these groups? The demographics you described weren't always like this. For example, Inwood was heavily Irish and Harlem was Jewish and Italian.

 

 

The South Bronx used to have a lot of Jews, and then they moved out to Co-Op City.

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There are many subway options, the problem is that there's no Cross-Bronx subway, as many have said, like a Fordham Road or a Tremont Avenue line...

 

 

Not everyone has a Subway option, which requires the use of buses (with optional connection to the IRT/IND lines). In the Southern portion of the Bronx (East of Hunts Point), there is no Subway option, the highest line you would get is the (6) on Westchester and Southern Blvd. The (6) is sort of a Crosstown you can say, but stay in the bottom. The (2)(5) is another one, but only on Westchester Ave, before heading up on Southern Blvd/Boston Road. For Cross Subway service in the northern potion, your only option is grabbing a crosstown MABSTOA Route or SBS12.

 

In addition to the geographic location, it is also demand and demographics. Thanks to minority communities with common interest on either side of the Harlem River (whether it be the Blacks between Harlem and Concourse Village, the Puerto Ricans in East Harlem and Mott Haven, and especially the Dominicans in Washington Heights/Inwood and the West Bronx), there continues to be high demand for east-west local bus service between Upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

 

In addition, many of these aforementioned Bronxites head to Upper Manhattan for simple things, such as shopping, barber shop/beauty salon, churches, family visits, nightclubs.

 

 

Thank You! And I always have had this feeling, the Bronx and Manhattan are more together, than any other borough regardless of the Bronx not being Downtown. Queens and Brooklyn are more together since they are connected. Staten Island is, ehhhh may as well be apart of Jersey geographically.

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Because people ride these buses maybe? I don't know.

Well think about it...

Do you want to take the (6) from Pelham Bay Park to Grand Central, the (S) to Times Square, the (1) to Inwood... Or just take a Bx12 bus?

Buses connect neighborhoods in places where trains cannot in NYC. How do you expect to get to Manhattan (above 155th Street) via train? A lot of the Bronx is alongside Manhattan, unlike Queens/Brooklyn. There are several bridges between the Bronx and Manhattan. The most northern train that goes into the Bronx from Manhattan is the (D) (155th Street). The (1) is extremely hard to get to for most Bronxites (due to it being so far out west) as well.

A lot of the Bronx is alongside Manhattan. Queens and Brooklyn aren't as easily accessible to Manhattan, which is why there's a subway system. I think that's pretty easy to tell on map... Just saying.

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Because people ride these buses maybe? I don't know.

Well think about it...

Do you want to take the (6) from Pelham Bay Park to Grand Central, the (S) to Times Square, the (1) to Inwood... Or just take a Bx12 bus?

Buses connect neighborhoods in places where trains cannot in NYC. How do you expect to get to Manhattan (above 155th Street) via train? A lot of the Bronx is alongside Manhattan, unlike Queens/Brooklyn. There are several bridges between the Bronx and Manhattan. The most northern train that goes into the Bronx from Manhattan is the (D) (155th Street). The (1) is extremely hard to get to for most Bronxites (due to it being so far out west) as well.

A lot of the Bronx is alongside Manhattan. Queens and Brooklyn aren't as easily accessible to Manhattan, which is why there's a subway system. I think that's pretty easy to tell on map... Just saying.

 

 

It isn't as easy as you think it is... What I find funny is that there some neighborhoods in the Bronx that aren't as accessible to Manhattan yet the service that is provided makes Manhattan much more accessible. Take an area like Throggs Neck for example... The fact that the Bronx is close to Manhattan is a good point, but I still wonder why the other boroughs aren't more accessible to Manhattan the way the Bronx is. Distance is one thing, but with good transportation, the other boroughs could easily be just as accessible....

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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It isn't as easy as you think it is... What I find funny is that there some neighborhoods in the Bronx that aren't as accessible to Manhattan yet the service that is provided makes Manhattan much more accessible. Take an area like Throggs Neck for example... The fact that the Bronx is close to Manhattan is a good point, but I still wonder why the other boroughs aren't more accessible to Manhattan the way the Bronx is. Distance is one thing, but with good transportation, the other boroughs could easily be just as accessible....

 

The problem with that is, if more local buses went from Queens/Brooklyn, they'd all end up using the same bridges to get to the same places as the express bus would. That would defeat one of the major purposes of an express bus. Many people would ask "Why am I paying $5.50 to go where every $2.25 bus is going?". There's also an accessibility issue with most train stations. Disabled passengers are most prevalent on Bronx buses (not so much on the subway) because most subway stations lack the accessibility they need. There's no accessible stations from Pelham Bay to 125th Street on the (6) train for example... Which crowds the Bx4 bus which operates beneath the elevated portion of the (6).

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It isn't as easy as you think it is... What I find funny is that there some neighborhoods in the Bronx that aren't as accessible to Manhattan yet the service that is provided makes Manhattan much more accessible. Take an area like Throggs Neck for example... The fact that the Bronx is close to Manhattan is a good point, but I still wonder why the other boroughs aren't more accessible to Manhattan the way the Bronx is. Distance is one thing, but with good transportation, the other boroughs could easily be just as accessible....

 

 

The Bronx is fairly easily accessable to Upper Manhattan. It's not that easily accessable to Midtown & Lower Manhattan.

 

Brooklyn & Queens are accessable to Lower & Midtown Manhattan, with Brooklyn a little bit moreso (because the subway coverage in general is better in Brooklyn than Queens). In fact, I remember somebody saying that even though the Bronx is closer to Manhattan geographically, the commute is longer because the trains are slower.

 

I mean, how many buses do we need to run over the bridges connecting Brooklyn & Queens to Manhattan in order to consider it "easily accessable"? I mean, we can't have every bus in Astoria going into Harlem, and we can't have every bus in Downtown Brooklyn going into Lower Manhattan.

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The problem with that is, if more local buses went from Queens/Brooklyn, they'd all end up using the same bridges to get to the same places as the express bus would. That would defeat one of the major purposes of an express bus. Many people would ask "Why am I paying $5.50 to go where every $2.25 bus is going?". There's also an accessibility issue with most train stations. Disabled passengers are most prevalent on Bronx buses (not so much on the subway) because most subway stations lack the accessibility they need. There's no accessible stations from Pelham Bay to 125th Street on the (6) train for example... Which crowds the Bx4 bus which operates beneath the elevated portion of the (6).

 

 

Yet this is suppose to somewhat get resolved in the future, as ADA construction is already happening at Hunts Point, even tho its not enough.

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The problem with that is, if more local buses went from Queens/Brooklyn, they'd all end up using the same bridges to get to the same places as the express bus would. That would defeat one of the major purposes of an express bus. Many people would ask "Why am I paying $5.50 to go where every $2.25 bus is going?". There's also an accessibility issue with most train stations. Disabled passengers are most prevalent on Bronx buses (not so much on the subway) because most subway stations lack the accessibility they need. There's no accessible stations from Pelham Bay to 125th Street on the (6) train for example... Which crowds the Bx4 bus which operates beneath the elevated portion of the (6).

 

 

Well the Bronx has that set up and its express buses do just fine, so I don't know if I agree with that...

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I mean, how many buses do we need to run over the bridges connecting Brooklyn & Queens to Manhattan in order to consider it "easily accessable"? I mean, we can't have every bus in Astoria going into Harlem, and we can't have every bus in Downtown Brooklyn going into Lower Manhattan.

 

Sometimes when I look at manhattan's bus map, I wonder what the local bus network (and the carnage on manhattan's streets) would look like if manhattan was one huge ass hub.....

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Well the Bronx has that set up and its express buses do just fine, so I don't know if I agree with that...

 

The buses (except the Bx15) use different bridges. The Bx15 and other local routes that go from the Bronx to Manhattan, they do not go south of 125th Street (and 125th is far from the heart of the city, which is served by express buses). Most express bus riders want to head to the core of Manhattan. With Queens and Brooklyn, the local buses wouldn't have much of a choice but to operate in the core of Manhattan in a similar route as the express buses. Now with Queens, they have the Q32 (which runs underneath the (7) line) and goes to Penn Station. I don't really see many people using more Queens-Manhattan routes seeing that they only have access to 59th Street (which the (N)(Q)(R) also serves underneath) or 125th Street with the bridges available. The Q32, Q60 and Q101 are fairly empty so an extra bus route or two would be pointless. The M60 mainly carries because of LGA Airport of course.

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