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Via Garibaldi 8

Why do so many Bronx local buses go to Manhattan?

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Because people ride these buses maybe? I don't know.

Well think about it...

Do you want to take the (6) from Pelham Bay Park to Grand Central, the (S) to Times Square, the (1) to Inwood... Or just take a Bx12 bus?

Buses connect neighborhoods in places where trains cannot in NYC. How do you expect to get to Manhattan (above 155th Street) via train? A lot of the Bronx is alongside Manhattan, unlike Queens/Brooklyn. There are several bridges between the Bronx and Manhattan. The most northern train that goes into the Bronx from Manhattan is the (D) (155th Street). The (1) is extremely hard to get to for most Bronxites (due to it being so far out west) as well.

A lot of the Bronx is alongside Manhattan. Queens and Brooklyn aren't as easily accessible to Manhattan, which is why there's a subway system. I think that's pretty easy to tell on map... Just saying.

 

 

The (1) eventually goes to the Bronx (Riverdale) so that is the most northern train.

Edited by GreatOne2k

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The (1) eventually goes to the Bronx (Riverdale) so that is the most northern train.

 

Indeed it does, but how does one get to that train from everywhere else in the Bronx?

Bx1, 3, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 19, 33, 35, 36..... That's what makes all of these routes useful.

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The buses (except the Bx15) use different bridges. The Bx15 and other local routes that go from the Bronx to Manhattan, they do not go south of 125th Street (and 125th is far from the heart of the city, which is served by express buses). Most express bus riders want to head to the core of Manhattan. With Queens and Brooklyn, the local buses wouldn't have much of a choice but to operate in the core of Manhattan in a similar route as the express buses. Now with Queens, they have the Q32 (which runs underneath the (7) line) and goes to Penn Station. I don't really see many people using more Queens-Manhattan routes seeing that they only have access to 59th Street (which the (N)(Q)(R) also serves underneath) or 125th Street with the bridges available. The Q32, Q60 and Q101 are fairly empty so an extra bus route or two would be pointless. The M60 mainly carries because of LGA Airport of course.

 

 

This. Aside from that, not only is the service area in Manhattan different (going Uptown instead of Midtown), but the service area within The Bronx is different. The local routes that go to Manhattan are mostly in the South & West Bronx, whereas the areas with express bus service are mostly further out. (The only 2 exceptions I can think of offhand are the Bx3 & Bx7)

 

So basically, a West Bronx-Upper Manhattan local route isn't going to compete with a East Bronx-Midtown route. Their ridership bases are completely different.

 

As for the M60, part of it isn't just the connection to the airport, but also the fact that there's no easy subway connection between Astoria & Upper Manhattan. (Then again, back when the M35 went to Astoria, it wasn't too frequent, so I assume ridership wasn't too high).

 

The (1) eventually goes to the Bronx (Riverdale) so that is the most northern train.

 

 

Actually, the (2) is the northernmost train. Some people think it's the (1) because it stops at 242nd Street, whereas the (2) stops at 241st Street, but the street grid is different in the eastern Bronx compared to the western Bronx.

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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This is pretty much what I was asking here:

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/32778-why-are-queens-and-bronx-so-connected-to-manhattan-by-bus-but-not-brooklyn/?do=findComment&comment=500974

 

It seems like Manhattan and Bronx could be thought of as “NYC proper”, and the other boroughs are simply like other cities and towns in the neigboring counties that were annexed.

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Also does anyone know why the Q60 and Q101 only stop right by the bridge? It seems like such a waste for it not to go just a little further in to at least connect to another bus route. I would at least do 60th Street to Lex and terminate at 57th so that it connects to the uptown/downtown bus routes as well as the crosstown at 57th. Then from there 57th to 3rd to 59th and back on the bridge.

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This is pretty much what I was asking here:

http://www.nyctransi...yn/#entry500974

 

It seems like Manhattan and Bronx could be thought of as “NYC proper”, and the other boroughs are simply like other cities and towns in the neigboring counties that were annexed.

 

 

Interesting point... You know I didn't even realize you created that other thread. I just happened to be looking at some photos and saw that the Bx6 went to Riverside Dr and thought to myself, why is that bus going there?? When I looked at the map I then noticed how many Bronx local buses go to Manhattan. I always knew there was quite a few but never knew there were so many. Your comment does make me wonder if going back to when New York City wasn't all unified what the thought process was. For example, you have Eastern Queens that was part of Long Island and it is interesting that it still has a similar feel in terms of being more suburban and transportation options are limited, much like Long Island.

 

What I find interesting is that at some point the Bronx wasn't all part of New York City either, yet it is so well connected in comparison to say Brooklyn with transportation options... I think it goes a bit further than just demographics and the transportation set up. It makes you wonder what the thought process was with the Bronx.

 

 

The buses (except the Bx15) use different bridges. The Bx15 and other local routes that go from the Bronx to Manhattan, they do not go south of 125th Street (and 125th is far from the heart of the city, which is served by express buses). Most express bus riders want to head to the core of Manhattan. With Queens and Brooklyn, the local buses wouldn't have much of a choice but to operate in the core of Manhattan in a similar route as the express buses. Now with Queens, they have the Q32 (which runs underneath the (7) line) and goes to Penn Station. I don't really see many people using more Queens-Manhattan routes seeing that they only have access to 59th Street (which the (N)(Q)(R) also serves underneath) or 125th Street with the bridges available. The Q32, Q60 and Q101 are fairly empty so an extra bus route or two would be pointless. The M60 mainly carries because of LGA Airport of course.

 

Yeah but you have some Bronx express buses that make stops at 125th street like the BxM7.

 

 

The fact that there's no cross-bronx subway, I think, also plays a part in it......

 

That's an interesting point... We talked about Brooklyn needing some crosstown routes if you will, but it is interesting that they have really popped up earlier. Perhaps it is because they don't connect to Manhattan? That would make it even more interesting though because to have a demand for crosstown service without Manhattan in the equation says something.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Also does anyone know why the Q60 and Q101 only stop right by the bridge? It seems like such a waste for it not to go just a little further in to at least connect to another bus route. I would at least do 60th Street to Lex and terminate at 57th so that it connects to the uptown/downtown bus routes as well as the crosstown at 57th. Then from there 57th to 3rd to 59th and back on the bridge.

 

 

Look at how messy Midtown is, I don't think there is any room around to even park these buses. I'd extend them to Columbus Circle, at least the Q101. via 60th and 59th Street. I'm wondering if thats why they moved the Q101 to its current terminal, rather via 3rd Ave as it use to go.

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Look at how messy Midtown is, I don't think there is any room around to even park these buses. I'd extend them to Columbus Circle, at least the Q101. via 60th and 59th Street. I'm wondering if thats why they moved the Q101 to its current terminal, rather via 3rd Ave as it use to go.

 

 

Oh, there is room. It's a matter of where they place said stops.

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Oh, there is room. It's a matter of where they place said stops.

 

 

I would agree... I have noticed the stop lay out for local and express buses and there is room, albeit not a ton, but still something to work with.

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What I find interesting is that at some point the Bronx wasn't all part of New York City either, yet it is so well connected in comparison to say Brooklyn with transportation options... I think it goes a bit further than just demographics and the transportation set up. It makes you wonder what the thought process was with the Bronx.

 

 

The West Bronx was annexed to New York City (then largely confined to Manhattan) in 1874, and the areas east of the Bronx River were annexed in 1895.

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This. Aside from that, not only is the service area in Manhattan different (going Uptown instead of Midtown), but the service area within The Bronx is different. The local routes that go to Manhattan are mostly in the South & West Bronx, whereas the areas with express bus service are mostly further out. (The only 2 exceptions I can think of offhand are the Bx3 & Bx7)

 

So basically, a West Bronx-Upper Manhattan local route isn't going to compete with a East Bronx-Midtown route. Their ridership bases are completely different.

 

As for the M60, part of it isn't just the connection to the airport, but also the fact that there's no easy subway connection between Astoria & Upper Manhattan. (Then again, back when the M35 went to Astoria, it wasn't too frequent, so I assume ridership wasn't too high).

 

 

 

Actually, the (2) is the northernmost train. Some people think it's the (1) because it stops at 242nd Street, whereas the (2) stops at 241st Street, but the street grid is different in the eastern Bronx compared to the western Bronx.

 

 

The (1) is the most northern train from Manhattan to go in the Bronx, the (B)(D) are the second most northern trains 155 St to enter the Bronx

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The Q101 I can see an argument for it to go at least to 59th/5th, but the Q60 is long enough. You can transfer to the Q32 if you want to go deeper from Queens Blvd. Plus, you have the (7), (E), and (F) as options as well.

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IMO Queens, Brooklyn, & Staten Island should have local/more local buses going into the city... Part of my issue is if the Bronx has such close ties to Manhattan and is given the service to make it easier to access Manhattan then so should the other boroughs. The reasons the Bronx has so many local buses is all fine and dandy but the service should be adequate for all of the boroughs because the subways don't help everyone or may not be accessible for everyone.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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IMO Queens, Brooklyn, & Staten Island should have local/more local buses going into the city... Part of my issue is if the Bronx has such close ties to Manhattan and is given the service to make it easier to access Manhattan then so should the other boroughs. The reasons the Bronx has so many local buses is all fine and dandy but the service should be adequate for all of the boroughs because the subways don't help everyone or may not be accessible for everyone.

 

S79 to manhattan err sorry but X1 does that. Brooklyn err subways and such will make local buses to manhattan fail miserably unless you want to drop the fare on X27/28 and BM lines. QM bitch please nothing you do will get them more buses to manhattan. SI has err express buses. If you want buses to the city with local fare here is an instafix lower the express fare then more riders will get on done.

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Bounand say, Q101's current terminal is unsafe at night, so this is reason why Q101 riders want to send to Lex Av-59th St where subway connection to (4)(5)(6) can be made. Maybe Q60 could also join Q101.

Q60: Turn around via 60th St, Park Av, 58th St, 3rd Av, 59th St.

 

Q101: Via Queensboro Bridge, 60th St, East Drive, 59th St, Columbus Circle, 59th St, Queensboro Bridge.

Edited by FamousNYLover

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S79 to manhattan err sorry but X1 does that. Brooklyn err subways and such will make local buses to manhattan fail miserably unless you want to drop the fare on X27/28 and BM lines. QM bitch please nothing you do will get them more buses to manhattan. SI has err express buses. If you want buses to the city with local fare here is an instafix lower the express fare then more riders will get on done.

 

 

You have no idea how awkward it sounds when you say "bitch please."

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Qtrainjmaster, express buses are higher fare for reason. Regular express bus riders properly don't want to deal with local bus passengers.

Some express buses are good amount from my experience with LGA B/O friend who used to drive QM24 via 3rd Av got loaded, and X23 Atlantic Express, last AM bus to Midtown was also CRUSH LOADED and SRO, some express buses are busy especially during rush hour.

Some people pays for express bus ride because it's relaxing on suburban seat and comfortable than local bus.

 

It's just like Hampton Jitney, even thought I never taken, Hampton Jitney is luxury express for rich people in further east in Suffolk County.

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Yeah, I always saw that Q101/Q60 terminal as really redundant...

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Yeah but you have some Bronx express buses that make stops at 125th street like the BxM7.

 

True, but still, you catch my drift.. (I hope). We all have a different outlook on this issue and that's mine. :P

Edited by Orion

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Qtrainjmaster, express buses are higher fare for reason. Regular express bus riders properly don't want to deal with local bus passengers.

Some express buses are good amount from my experience with LGA B/O friend who used to drive QM24 via 3rd Av got loaded, and X23 Atlantic Express, last AM bus to Midtown was also CRUSH LOADED and SRO, some express buses are busy especially during rush hour.

Some people pays for express bus ride because it's relaxing on suburban seat and comfortable than local bus.

 

It's just like Hampton Jitney, even thought I never taken, Hampton Jitney is luxury express for rich people in further east in Suffolk County.

 

 

You are absolutely correct... Not only that but less rude a-holes...

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I heard past in rumor AE X24 people are rude and like dentist, but it's.

 

When I asked AE B/O for X24/X23 schedule, they politely said, "Sure or no."

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Some X23 riders at last pickup point in Staten island didn't want to stand, so they properly wait for X24 maybe?

 

When AE-7 was existed, properly these people want peaceful ride, so they charge $6 for bus ride for people who used to/from drive in out of Outerbridge Park Ride.

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Isn't the major reason for all of this historic precedent? The trolleys and early bus routes went from upper Manhattan to the Bronx just like today's routes do and the neighborhoods grew up around this service. The Brooklyn trolley routes that did cross the river to Manhattan were replaced early on by the BMT subway system, and much of Queens was undeveloped when the elevated lines and IND were built. The ex-Queens Surface (Steinway) bus routes only went to 2nd Ave. because that's where the city decided they would go and MTA Bus probably has no desire to increase its operating expense by expanding those routes further into Midtown.

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