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bml86

Uptown A - Reason for Slow Speed?

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I commute daily on the A train from West 4th street to Columbus Circle. Going uptown, the train always slows to a crawl when passing 23rd street and 50th street. Does anyone know the reason for this? It happens without fail, so I cannot imagine it's a traffic issue.

 

Responses are appreciate to help satisfy my curiosity!

 

B

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Most likely timers.... they are all over most of the 8th Avenue line. Another possible reason is that the (A)(C) merge with the (B)(D) at 59-CC, so sometimes (A)'s have to wait for (D)'s and vice-versa.

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Most likely timers.... they are all over most of the 8th Avenue line. Another possible reason is that the (A)(C) merge with the (B)(D) at 59-CC, so sometimes (A)'s have to wait for (D)'s and vice-versa.

 

I agree with you too, S78 via Hylan.

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Most likely timers.... they are all over most of the 8th Avenue line. Another possible reason is that the (A)(C) merge with the (B)(D) at 59-CC, so sometimes (A)'s have to wait for (D)'s and vice-versa.

 

 

The MTA is talking so much about improvements and having faster service, yet with all these timers, sh9t don't look fast at all. Other Subway systems are much faster then the MTA.... I understand safety is important, but don't OD on capping the speed in a lot of places... Curves I can understand tho.

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If trains crawl on the (A) especially near stations, I believe they don't want the (A) trains to overshoot the platforms, I think the (A) like has been notorious for station overshoots in the past.

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Going uptown the (A) usually starts to slow down because it has to wait for the signals to clear from a (D) coming from 7th ave to 59st Columbus Circle. 23rd street to 34st I never noticed anything unusual, maybe its just customers holding everything up as usual because they don't read signs.

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There are timers northbound passing 23 St to protect the (supposedly) 25 MPH switch that the (A) has to go over. Strangely, the southbound trains are allowed to pass at full speed and encounter no problems...As for 42 St - 59 St, I've heard that the timers are to prevent excess speed coming down the hill into 59 St. Some people might say, "Oh, now there's zero point in taking the express," but remember that the (C) local has to encounter timers into 59 St, too.

 

Also, it's not exactly unique to the 8 Avenue line. Remember that the Bway/7 Avenue line has timers at Franklin/Canal Sts southbound, Christopher St northbound, 42 St southbound, and 96 St in both directions. The (A) just feels a lot worse because the timers are located near the bypassed stations, so it feels like the express is more pointless.

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I have always found it slow myself.

 

The day that I was shopping, working my way off the (A), I gotta say that I did notice it running really slow past 23 St.

Edited by Brighton Express

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Between the A and C northbound at 50th and 59th, I feel like the (A) is slower. At least the (C) can come in at full speed at 50th, the (A) is already down to like 15-20 mph by then.

 

If you are going northbound between Jay St and 59th St, the (A) only saves 2 minutes max over the (C). You'll notice if you get an (A) right behind a (C) and you can't pass it until 72nd...

 

P.S.: If you're going uptown on 8th Av and changing to the (B) or (D) later, you'll be much better off taking the train that will arrive on the opposite track. Want a D? Take the C. Want a B? Take the A.

Edited by paulrivera

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The (A)'s always slowing down before entering Broadway Junction in both directions. I've also noticed southbound (A)'s running very slow around Van Siclen and Shepherd many times...The western switces at Euclid I can understand though but what's up with the slowest speed at Broadway Junction?....Yes I'm aware of the switches in both directions but what's up with the slowest speed there?.......

Edited by RollOverMyHead

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Between the A and C northbound at 50th and 59th, I feel like the (A) is slower. At least the (C) can come in at full speed at 50th, the (A) is already down to like 15-20 mph by then.

 

If you are going northbound between Jay St and 59th St, the (A) only saves 2 minutes max over the (C). You'll notice if you get an (A) right behind a (C) and you can't pass it until 72nd...

 

The (A) has a 25 MPH timer approaching 50 St northbound, and I've heard that many T/O's ignore it because it's a two-shot timer (they won't run a red light unless they run two in a row). While the next timer will clear much slower because of that (whenever you run a two-shot timer, the next one takes longer to clear than usual; it's a little complicated to explain), by then you've almost already reached the point at which the (C) encounters timers too.

 

About the (A) not saving much time, let's remember that the only area on the (A) between Jay St and 59 St that is significantly slower than the (C) is passing 23 St. It's not as much the timers as it is about the fact that the (A) only skips three stops.

 

 

The (A)'s always slowing down before entering Broadway Junction in both directions. I've also noticed southbound (A)'s running very slow around Van Siclen and Shepherd many times...The western switces at Euclid I can understand though but what's up with the slowest speed at Broadway Junction?....Yes I'm aware of the switches in both directions but what's up with the slowest speed there?.......

 

There are timers coming into Broadway Junction...They're pretty stupid. I think they're to keep T/Os from overrunning the platform.
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The (A) has a 25 MPH timer approaching 50 St northbound, and I've heard that many T/O's ignore it because it's a two-shot timer (they won't run a red light unless they run two in a row). While the next timer will clear much slower because of that (whenever you run a two-shot timer, the next one takes longer to clear than usual; it's a little complicated to explain),

That's called a penalty. Meaning if you pass the yellow/S before the time runs out, then the red clears slower, and often you have to almost stop. (It now acts like a one-shot ST, basically).

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That's called a penalty. Meaning if you pass the yellow/S before the time runs out, then the red clears slower, and often you have to almost stop. (It now acts like a one-shot ST, basically).

That's interesting. I used to think that it wasn't a penalty, but rather that it counted the time that it took to clear both blocks. For example, if you ran a two-shot GT 25 going at 30 MPH, then you'd have to clear the next one at 20 MPH to make up the difference. If you went 45 MPH through the first one, the next one would clear at 5 MPH. I guess I was completely wrong.

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No, because many of them will clear at a much ridiculously slower rate than simply the difference between the highest allowable speed. The cutoff point is somewhere (usually within 5mph of the posted speed), and just to go 1mph over the point then should not make a difference, but when it penalizes you, then you have to go much more than 1mph slower, often having to almost prepare to stop.

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No, because many of them will clear at a much ridiculously slower rate than simply the difference between the highest allowable speed. The cutoff point is somewhere (usually within 5mph of the posted speed), and just to go 1mph over the point then should not make a difference, but when it penalizes you, then you have to go much more than 1mph slower, often having to almost prepare to stop.

 

Thanks for explaining. It actually makes perfect sense; it keeps T/Os from just clearing every every other timer.

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The reason T/O ignore the first of the two shot at 50st is because the stuff behind it clears much slower (and the signals are close together) so they are going to slow down anyway. I like to roll down the hill between 11-14 until everything clears up, and whether I do the 20 (its GT 20 not 25) or not I'm still going to have to be in the 10-15 range to clear everything else going downhill, therefore I ignore the first, reduce speed and creep up to the second (and the one after that).

 

And for the record, the penalty is to enforce the speed limit as otherwise T/O's would be above it all the time (especially if the next one is some distance away), clearing signals somewhere in the middle of the following block, possibly taxing the stopping distance in the area.

Edited by TwoTimer

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The reason T/O ignore the first of the two shot at 50st is because the stuff behind it clears much slower (and the signals are close together) so they are going to slow down anyway. I like to roll down the hill between 11-14 until everything clears up, and whether I do the 20 (its GT 20 not 25) or not I'm still going to have to be in the 10-15 range to clear everything else going downhill, therefore I ignore the first, reduce speed and creep up to the second (and the one after that).

 

Thanks for clarifying...I was explaining it a little too simply maybe.

 

Sooo are some of you "Railfans" getting a idea how Signals work??

 

Not every railfan is interested in signals or wants to become a T/O :lol:. I sure am interested in them, though...

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