Grade Timers between 42nd-72nd street Uptown IRT West side express???

[mediccjh]

I plan on going in with the "I Know Nothing" attitude, because I don't know anything about the job. Humility is a good thing.

 

We do the same things to the "fresh meat" in EMS. Those who come in with the I-know-everything attitude, I usually get them to leave crying.

 

I look forward to learning from you guys.

[ttcsubwayfan]

According to them, knowing the subway means knowing all the routes and being to every stop at one time or another, along with freely available history and experiences in the museum.

 

 

The definition you speak of is being a railfan, or, in more extreme cases, a foamer.

 

Perhaps, what the user should have said was that he doesn't know much about signals, but knows about the fleet, station and route aspects of it.

[RTOMan]

Perhaps, what the user should have said was that he doesn't know much about signals, but knows about the fleet, station and route aspects of it.

 

You dont need to "know" about Fleets or station aspects as a New T/O you do need to know about routes and signals...

 

You can be a Railfan and work down here no prob..

 

A Know it all railfan or a Foamer will get weeded out quick real quick...

[TheSubwayStation]

I'm taking a look at the conversation that just took place:

Grade timers indicate what's up ahead.

No they do not...

 

If you used that as a answer in a signals quiz you would fail it....

 

Thanks for the info. I'm not into signals, but I know the subway.

 

If you ever have thoughts about becoming a T/O or C/R you better know the Signals..

 

Which are part of the Subway...

 

I don't understand why people have to be so hard on this guy when he never (as far as I know) said that he thought he was qualified be a T/O or C/R...It's okay to not be knowledgable about things as long as you're not pretending that you are.

[SubwayGuy]

The definition you speak of is being a railfan, or, in more extreme cases, a foamer.

 

Perhaps, what the user should have said was that he doesn't know much about signals, but knows about the fleet, station and route aspects of it.

 

 

Railfans "think" they know those things, but they don't. The fact is very few people know the subway like that, even among employees. But I know people with 20+ years down here and they DO know almost the entire system like that because they've operated, walked, and flagged every inch of the system at some point or another.

 

Railfans claiming to know about fleets don't know anything about them. Knowing the difference in a propulsion, brake package, or door operator's name is meaningless when you're jacking up the road and you've got to try and troubleshoot the darn thing.

 

Knowing the names of stations is not that helpful either. Anyone can read, or carry a strip map with them, until they learn. Likewise, until you know every nook and cranny of a station - where all those locked doors go, alternate exits, etc. you don't really know it.

 

And routes...well just knowing where the trains go isn't very helpful. Knowing routes necessarily means knowing signals because signals, along with switches, are part of said route.

[FriedChikkin]

...and then there's Motor Instructor Taylor.

[RTOMan]

I don't understand why people have to be so hard on this guy when he never (as far as I know) said that he thought he was qualified be a T/O or C/R.

 

 

Clam yourself down there Subway i wasnt even close to being hard i gave a honest opinion. You will KNOW when im hard on somebody here..

 

Too many sensitive folks out here in Internet land...

 

...and then there's Motor Instructor Taylor.

 

Hes a Buff!!!!!

[ttcsubwayfan]

Unless a railfan is considering becoming a T/O, I seriously doubt he will need to know about all of this technical hoopla.

 

I have no intentions of working on the subway, so my knowledge of it is good enough for me.

[TheSubwayStation]

Clam yourself down there Subway i wasnt even close to being hard i gave a honest opinion. You will KNOW when im hard on somebody here..

 

Too many sensitive folks out here in Internet land...

I don't need to "clam myself down"...I never got upset. I see what you mean; he made a statement about signals which wasn't true, but I still don't see why you (and others) have to act like he did something bad. If he had said, "I know all about signals, and just as much as T/Os or C/Rs do," then you have a reason to "put him in his place" so to speak. But I'm just saying, why try to make a new member who never claimed to be that knowledgeable feel bad for saying something wrong?

 

Your comment wasn't that bad on its own, but in combination with the other things that people said, it essentially grouped him in with the know-it-alls who think they're qualified to become TA workers.

 

You may feel like people are too sensitive on the internet, but all I can say is that plenty of the "wise guy" statements (I realize that your statement hardly qualifies as one of them) that people make on the internet would make people sound like real jerks if they said them in person...Don't mean to get this thread off on a tangent, but I think that the internet actually provides a sort of buffer that allows people to be rude to each other without thinking. Sorry, but I just feel like this point has to be made.

[RTOMan]

I don't need to "clam myself down"...I never got upset. I see what you mean; he made a statement about signals which wasn't true, but I still don't see why you (and others) have to act like he did something bad. If he had said, "I know all about signals, and just as much as T/Os or C/Rs do," then you have a reason to "put him in his place" so to speak. But I'm just saying, why try to make a new member who never claimed to be that knowledgeable feel bad for saying something wrong?

 

Your comment wasn't that bad on its own, but in combination with the other things that people said, it essentially grouped him in with the know-it-alls who think they're qualified to become TA workers.

 

You may feel like people are too sensitive on the internet, but all I can say is that plenty of the "wise guy" statements (I realize that your statement hardly qualifies as one of them) that people make on the internet would make people sound like real jerks if they said them in person...Don't mean to get this thread off on a tangent, but I think that the internet actually provides a sort of buffer that allows people to be rude to each other without thinking. Sorry, but I just feel like this point has to be made.

 

 

Its just your opinion fair enough but i feel you read too much into what i said...

[TheSubwayStation]

Its just your opinion fair enough but i feel you read too much into what i said...

 

I probably did. Other people's comments about know-it-all railfans made me judge yours unfairly, and gave me the impression that you were accusing NYCrailfan523. Now I understand that you didn't mean it the way I thought you did.

[TwoTimer]

I was considering putting a plan up here for all those that actually wanted a career in the subways (what to do, when to do it, etc). Maybe I'll go ahead and put that up now.

[FriedChikkin]

Considering a career working for MTA? Please be; somewhat competent and take the tests. Shoot for 100% score because, although its easy, your competition is numbered in the thousands and file for the exam ASAP, after scores are considered, they consider filing date! The wait will likely be a couple of years so you don't want to miss out by months or possibly years by filing on the last day. Considering the pay and benefits, the price of the exam is negligible.

[RTOMan]

I probably did. Other people's comments about know-it-all railfans made me judge yours unfairly, and gave me the impression that you were accusing NYCrailfan523. Now I understand that you didn't mean it the way I thought you did.

 

 

No problem it just bugs me that fellow railfans give this hobby a bad name that is what irks me (not saying the Poster we are discussing is in that boat).

[mark1447]

 

 

No problem it just bugs me that fellow railfans give this hobby a bad name that is what irks me (not saying the Poster we are discussing is in that boat).

 

 

I don't blame you man! This is why I keep away from the community and stick to the closes people I know and admire in life. Its the best thing to do...

[ttcsubwayfan]

Considering a career working for MTA? Please be; somewhat competent and take the tests. Shoot for 100% score because, although its easy, your competition is numbered in the thousands and file for the exam ASAP, after scores are considered, they consider filing date! The wait will likely be a couple of years so you don't want to miss out by months or possibly years by filing on the last day. Considering the pay and benefits, the price of the exam is negligible.

 

 

Can't argue with that. Indeed, if you want to become a subway operator, then signals and stuff will be a lot more important than station and fleet info. I have no interest in such matters because I don't wish to become a subway operator. But I take issue with comments like these:

 

Railfans claiming to know about fleets don't know anything about them. Knowing the difference in a propulsion, brake package, or door operator's name is meaningless when you're jacking up the road and you've got to try and troubleshoot the darn thing.

 

 

Last I checked, the propulsion, brake package and that kind of stuff are still relevant to the car in some way. Not useful for diagnosing a problem, no doubt, but knowing about the propulsion, brake package, etc still qualifies as knowing something.

[Grand Concourse]

Ok, can everyone just move on already? I think the point has been discussed to death by now. The actual employees may have stated things bluntly, but they are correct about knowing more than what railfans thinks they know.

 

If you like something, fine, but do not try to think you know more than the people working in the system. That's pretty much all it sums up to.

[SubwayGuy]

Last I checked, the propulsion, brake package and that kind of stuff are still relevant to the car in some way. Not useful for diagnosing a problem, no doubt, but knowing about the propulsion, brake package, etc still qualifies as knowing something.

 

 

It's a meangingless factoid because it's known by name only. Real knowledge includes a component that railfans don't get. Identifying something by name or sound, but having no idea how it works or what it actually does is completely useless, yet something railfans pride themselves on. As a group, they accumulate primarily useless knowledge, especially the younger ones. Memorizing car numbers and components they don't understand on equipment they "like" or "don't like" based on looks and noises.

 

So eager to learn but when I used to write up complicated "how it works" things I'd get two responses and a lot of yawns from people who were too lazy to actually try and learn something, so I stopped doing it...because the same questions kept coming up over and over because people didn't learn it.

 

That's exactly what I hear happening here. How I see it:

"Oh, I'm interested in routes, I know everything about routes. I'm a buff"

"If you don't know signals, you don't know routes"

"Oh, well signals are boring, I don't care about them." (as opposed to, "hmm, maybe I don't know signals...they are interesting...write something up about them that I can learn because I'm interested in transit and I always want to learn more so that I can actually know something instead of just making sound effects with my mouth and having deep conversations about which propulsion package we like best when we all go on trips")

"OK, but they're part of the route. So if you don't know them, you can't claim to know routes."

"But...I KNOW STUFF"

"No you don't."

"Yes! YES I DO!"

and so on...

[ttcsubwayfan]

Not all railfans are like that. I happen to be an acquaintance of several who are very experienced with all this technical hoopla.

 

And for the record, I wasn't saying that I do know more than MTA personnel... just that my limited knowledge of the subway is good enough for me.

[TheSubwayStation]

I really think that as long as railfans don't act like know-it-alls, there's nothing wrong with them not being interested in technical aspects of the subway. While I see your point, SubwayGuy, I don't think we should act like the railfans who aren't interested in technical stuff are inferior to those who are. Technical stuff is only one of several reasons why someone could get interested in the subway. Keep in mind that you're hearing this from someone who is actually interested in technical stuff.

 

It's a meangingless factoid because it's known by name only. Real knowledge includes a component that railfans don't get. Identifying something by name or sound, but having no idea how it works or what it actually does is completely useless, yet something railfans pride themselves on. As a group, they accumulate primarily useless knowledge, especially the younger ones. Memorizing car numbers and components they don't understand on equipment they "like" or "don't like" based on looks and noises.

 

I see what you're saying, but it's not as if there has to be a purpose or meaning to being a railfan; pepole can just be a railfan because they like trains. IMO as long as they're not trying to shove their ignorance down other people's throats, there's nothing wrong with railfans not learning technical information. For example, if a guy just likes the R46 for no real reason, there's no cause to say, "Go learn how trains work before you get so biased." But if that guy went around trying to convince everybody why the R46 is the best (based on no knowledge), then you might as well teach him a lesson for pretending he knows everything.

 

In other words, I totally understand your annoyance at railfans who think they're subway experts when they just know a bunch of names of stuff that they don't understand. But, I still don't like the attitude that the only "useful" things to know about the subway are T/O-related knowledge. There's nothing wrong with a train buff who comes from the perspective of a rider, not pretending to emulate a TA employee. For example, just enjoying all of the trains, stations, and routes (from a rider's perspective) is a perfectly "legitimate" way of being a railfan IMO.

[ttcsubwayfan]

For example, if a guy just likes the R46 for no real reason, there's no cause to say, "Go learn how trains work before you get so biased." But if that guy went around trying to convince everybody why the R46 is the best (based on no knowledge), then you might as well teach him a lesson for pretending he knows everything.

 

 

This is where people confuse the term 'favorite train' and 'best train'. I was curious so I asked around to see which of the TTC's H-series cars was the most reliable; my personal favorite, the H5, was no exemplary performer, so it is not the 'best' train but I maintain that it is my favorite.

[TheSubwayStation]

This is where people confuse the term 'favorite train' and 'best train'.

That is a really, really, good point. I wish I had thought of that...

[MHV9218]

I know the dead horse is getting a little beaten here, but I just want to throw up a bit of history, everybody here know the story of the Malbone St. Wreck? That wasn't just a railfan who knew a lot about the system, that was a TA worker who was legitimately qualified on paper and had a job at the TA, but when the time came to actually operate, he lost control and 93 lives were lost. Now timers may be a pain to every railfan out there (even some T/Os), but there are good reasons for most all of those things, and if you're watching out the window and you can't figure out why the train just slowed, then you just proved to yourself why you're not the one operating.