RollOver Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share #26 Posted September 27, 2012 Which is why I think they should send the up to Astoria 24/7 and make the the part time line. Well I am pretty sure the would want the current service patterns that stay the way they are permanently or until further notice. Having more frequent service running every 4-5 minutes during most of rush hours means MUCH less frequent service, especially along the 60th-59th tube and the Broadway local tracks above 34th Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted September 27, 2012 Share #27 Posted September 27, 2012 If Astoria riders wan't more service, have an go OOS before Canal and have it layover at City Hall or Whitehall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abba Posted September 28, 2012 Share #28 Posted September 28, 2012 I've noticed a lot of different problems lately on those lines between queens and manhattan which leads to the above question.I know that some trains terminate at 57th and 7th but still...maybe have a few R,s run via the ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted September 28, 2012 Share #29 Posted September 28, 2012 I've noticed a lot of different problems lately on those lines between queens and manhattan which leads to the above question.I know that some trains terminate at 57th and 7th but still...maybe have a few R,s run via the ? I've noticed quite some delays and stuff like that recently. I don't know if having those 3 lines running on the tubes is the problem. I don't recall there being that many problems early when the was extended, or when the was running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted September 28, 2012 Share #30 Posted September 28, 2012 I've noticed a lot of different problems lately on those lines between queens and manhattan which leads to the above question.I know that some trains terminate at 57th and 7th but still...maybe have a few R,s run via the ? I don't think it's any different from when the ran. If anything it's the switching back at Prince St to run over the bridge that's the cause for the slowing down. If they didn't need the to provide a 'counter balance' for the bridge (2 services on both sides), they may as well have kept the back in the tunnel with the and then have the switch back to the express at Pacific/Barclays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abba Posted September 28, 2012 Share #31 Posted September 28, 2012 I don't think it's any different from when the ran. If anything it's the switching back at Prince St to run over the bridge that's the cause for the slowing down. If they didn't need the to provide a 'counter balance' for the bridge (2 services on both sides), they may as well have kept the back in the tunnel with the and then have the switch back to the express at Pacific/Barclays. I say don't switch it altogether then.Just leave it local till 59th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted September 28, 2012 Share #32 Posted September 28, 2012 I say don't switch it altogether then.Just leave it local till 59th. That would be as long as the in runtime. Express in Brooklyn is good. I don't think anyone would want to give out an for the slower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted September 28, 2012 Share #33 Posted September 28, 2012 Well I am pretty sure the would want the current service patterns that stay the way they are permanently or until further notice. Having more frequent service running every 4-5 minutes during most of rush hours means MUCH less frequent service, especially along the 60th-59th tube and the Broadway local tracks above 34th Street. Well, it technically won't be any different than to just terminate some trains with all trains. In the long run, I still think the would be the best line for Astoria in terms of handling that line on its own over the . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted September 28, 2012 Share #34 Posted September 28, 2012 I say don't switch it altogether then.Just leave it local till 59th. I don't think Brooklyn needs that much service, alone is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abba Posted September 28, 2012 Share #35 Posted September 28, 2012 I don't think Brooklyn needs that much service, alone is fine. Right.But if you leave it local there won't be merging problems at Atlantic ave .Instead at 59th the will just go its merry way down Sea Beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted September 28, 2012 Share #36 Posted September 28, 2012 Sorry to change the subject (somewhat) but the question is more about can the do 28/23/8/Prince by itself, as otherwise there would be no reason to merge/split anything south of Prince. Brooklyn is fine, the tube is also fine, trains can still move decently in the tube following another train, the point isn't to max out speed numbers in the 60th tube, its to keep the traffic moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted September 28, 2012 Share #37 Posted September 28, 2012 I say don't switch it altogether then.Just leave it local till 59th. That would require sending the via the tunnel, which would increase travel times by a lot. I actually don't think that the Prince St merge is a problem; keep in mind that the train used to merge at 34 St and it no longer does. Therefore, the is equal to the way it was before. The problem is the merge at 34 St. EDIT: that is, if the Prince St switches aren't slower than the ones at 34 St. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share #38 Posted September 28, 2012 That would require sending the via the tunnel, which would increase travel times by a lot. I actually don't think that the Prince St merge is a problem; keep in mind that the train used to merge at 34 St and it no longer does. Therefore, the is equal to the way it was before. The problem is the merge at 34 St. Let's add that the comes every six to eight minutes during rush hours and ten minutes other times. Plus the comes every four to five minutes. While the is always coming every ten minutes. More frequent service only means more delays and congestion above Prince and 34th as well as the 60th-59th tube... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted September 28, 2012 Share #39 Posted September 28, 2012 Topics been merged. That is the Broadway and Astoria Line ridership patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted September 29, 2012 Share #40 Posted September 29, 2012 Prince St switch s/b is on time (clears at 12mph). Prince St switch n/b is not (I take it at 15 since there's a D20 going from 2 to 4). It is also a faster diverge sign going from 3 to 1. These are some of the things that slow the system down, the absense of signs on switches it is physically safe to go faster than 10. Problem is, system safety can enforce the rule on ANY switch, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Therefore, many go 10mph all the way into Prince. Believe you me, what a difference that would be made if 's were in fact able to take that switch at 20. The same thing goes for southbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10 Airport Posted October 1, 2012 Share #41 Posted October 1, 2012 The 's needed on weekdays for sure. I just wished they could space them out better. It's not uncommon to see a Manhattan-bound immediately followed by a , then followed by a long wait until another arrives (and vice versa). I'm told that bottlenecking is the main issue. This is not just a problem with the and trains but an issue that plagues the entire system. There have been so many times on the QBL when an immediately followed the . And if you miss both, you're out of luck for the next 10-15 minutes . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share #42 Posted October 1, 2012 May I remind you guys that the trains come once within ten minutes. Same happens with about every other line. How can the fix this problem....? I've been studying trains ever since I was little. I know that they pick up passengers for a minute or a few seconds. If trains come once every ten minutes within an hour, that's six trains. How are you guys going to say this otherwise....? Even if you do space them out a little so both can get crowded, it will still be the same type of pattern. So again, explain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10 Airport Posted October 1, 2012 Share #43 Posted October 1, 2012 May I remind you guys that the trains come once within ten minutes. Each individual line is supposed to come once every ten minutes over the weekend. However there are two trains on the Astoria line so it's supposed to be a train every 5 minutes. In addition to headways are 7 minutes for the and as individual lines during rush hour, so that translates to 3 1/2 minute headways on the Astoria line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share #44 Posted October 1, 2012 Each individual line is supposed to come once every ten minutes over the weekend. However there are two trains on the Astoria line so it's supposed to be a train every 5 minutes. In addition to headways are 7 minutes for the and as individual lines during rush hour, so that translates to 3 1/2 minute headways on the Astoria line. That will cause more delays, gaps, and bunching, especially since the 60th-59th Street tube is only two tracks. This is completely inconsistent. The shares tracks with the and above 34th. That would be completely worse than now. You guys still have to realize this will result in delays than with the Broadway Express waiting for the Broadway Locals at Prince and 34th. There would be no such thing. Don't just focus on one single line, we have to pay more attention to the lines that the trains SHARE tracks with. Let's say they send the to the White Plains Road Line and what happens if there's a blockage or signal issue? I would be messing up service the entire 2/3/4/5 lines. Sure, Astoria residents are undeserved due to their high population and yes the bottleneck should be decreased but what about the design of the 60th-59th Street? What about the 49th Street local stop where most Astoria riders use for Rockefeller Center and for express service downtown as AndrewJC explain in another thread that had gotten locked? What about the train that the and trains share tracks with? So you guys see why you have this type of service pattern? This is a PUBLIC transportation. This is a wide subway in New York City. Save for the and trains as well as the and (depending on the period), ALL other trains are not isolated. It just depends on the design of the tracks and switches as well as the two-tracked terminals where most capacity comes from (for example: Ditmars Boulevard, Flatbush Avenue, Jamaica Center etc etc). Hence why some rush hour 's go to/from 179th via the ? Why do some rush hour and goes to/from Utica or New Lots via the or ? And hence why do some and 's start/end at 57th-7th at rush hour? Because of capacity on their terminals and frequency of headways at rush hour. And TBH, this is why I dislike the alot more after those 2010 service cuts...Heck, even some 's start/end at Canal at rush hour due to it coming every 6 minutes, being frequently between Canal Street-Upper Level and Bay Ridge-95th Street... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share #45 Posted October 1, 2012 As you can clearly see why the timetables and headways are like that? Because of ridership. Increasing more service rather than running them at just 10 min headways respectively means more delays, gaps, and bunching. Delayed trains mean slow service. Hence why the always rank average on service regularity according to Straphangers. Take a look at the timetables and headways. Take a look at the DeKalb Avenue track designs. Heck, even most Eastern Parkway trains (most likely the and ) get held to let the latter of which proceed first due to the design of the Nostrand Avenue Junction. It's just bad and the schedules the trains to come at the same time mostly, especially since those trains will share tracks right after a station or get held to let the other proceed first...? That's why you have the service the way its set up right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted October 2, 2012 Share #46 Posted October 2, 2012 I say don't switch it altogether then.Just leave it local till 59th. Lower Broadway and 4th Avenue don't need two services. Only reason to run the local below Canal is if the Manhattan Bridge is closed to Broadway trains or if the is running shuttle service in Brooklyn. If Astoria riders wan't more service, have an go OOS before Canal and have it layover at City Hall or Whitehall. It's a waste of track capacity to have some trains regularly run OOS down the Broadway local tracks to City Hall or Whitehall. Well I am pretty sure the would want the current service patterns that stay the way they are permanently or until further notice. Having more frequent service running every 4-5 minutes during most of rush hours means MUCH less frequent service, especially along the 60th-59th tube and the Broadway local tracks above 34th Street. Not necessarily. The and trains run on 4-minute headways during rush hours on the same tracks. No reason the and can't do the same, and the doesn't even need to run every four minutes. It can stay on its current 6-minute headways with the running on 4- or 5-minute headways. The only thing you wouldn't be able to do is run the , and through the 60th Street tunnel at the same time with the on tighter headways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share #47 Posted October 2, 2012 That's why you have gaps and bunching, causing delays...Is it because of crowding issues? Still, have at least one-two trains within ten minutes on a line...I don't see why they don't have this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted October 2, 2012 Share #48 Posted October 2, 2012 Just a note, that perfectly evened out headway only exists for lines and areas immediately proceeding a terminal. It is difficult to maintain that throughout a route. So yes, leave Astoria in perfect 5 min intervals during most the day. That changes as soon as one hits the tube. Yes the may leave at evenly split intervals out of CTL. That doesn't mean they'll arrive at CTL in that exact same way, too many variables on the road. In other words, QBL local receives more evened out service southbound than northbound. Trainmaster said something similar in the random throughts thread, through a different light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Posted October 2, 2012 Share #49 Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks for the clarification, TwoTimer. My comment regarding the spacing of the and the is mainly about how the Astoria Line gets during my morning commute to work (Manhattan). Broadway's only three stops after Ditmars, so the headways shouldn't be so inconsistent. If there are delays on Ditmars-bound trains in the morning rush, have them skip a few stops in Queens to ensure there's even spacing on the trains headed back to the city. Having extra service is pointless if it's not effectively solving the issue of crowding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted October 2, 2012 Share #50 Posted October 2, 2012 It's all road-dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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