RollOver Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share #51 Posted October 29, 2012 And that would result in a service cut at Brighton Local stops, which do have significantly higher ridership than Sea Beach stations. Perhaps the alone could handle Astoria since it runs a bit more frequently than the and has higher ridership on its Brooklyn section than the does. Which is why I think they should send the up to Astoria 24/7 and make the the part time line. Fully agreed. The shouldn't be a part time line though, it'll still be 24/7 as it can go to SAS. The would be a much more demanding line, giving Astoria and Brighton residents direct access to Midtown Manhattan, while the provides Spanish Harlem and Upper East Side residents with service to Midtown and Southern Brooklyn. This is actually a great internal idea. The could run every ten minutes while the runs every five minutes (weekdays) and ten minutes (weekends). But of course until they change the SAS current service plan, it's still the going up there and the remaining in Astoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share #52 Posted October 30, 2012 I just hope that the timetables don't get screwed with the and though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted October 30, 2012 Share #53 Posted October 30, 2012 I think the and the might go up SAS, leaving a more frequent to serve Astoria alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share #54 Posted November 24, 2012 I think the and the might go up SAS, leaving a more frequent to serve Astoria alone. Sorry to bring back an older thread, but after getting through what TwoTimer said, I gotta agree completely. Having the on SAS Phase 1 & 2 will reduce the split/merge at 34th and the 60th-59th tube and create another flexability on a brand new corridor. The can swap cars with no problem at any time since they both share the same yard and northern terminal. They are just like the IMO. They can have the run every five minutes on weekdays and ten minutes on weekends, being a full-time line again. Keep current headways of the as it is. The Broadway Express trains can run on SAS Phase 1 & 2 and stay on the express tracks the entire way between 57th and Canal Streets with the Manhattan Bridge south crossing. The can still run local to replace the at night between 57th-7th and 59th-4th while the 60th-59th tube has only two services which are the Broadway Locals the entire way. The harder thing would mean three services running on Broadway at night though. Of course, all speculation on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted November 24, 2012 Share #55 Posted November 24, 2012 You'd be overserving 2nd Ave, while underserving Astoria. I would say it is a safe assumption that the Q will be the only second avenue service at the completion of SAS phase 1. Broadway service will look like it did prior to the 2010 cuts, except the Q will go beyond 57/7 to 96/2, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share #56 Posted November 24, 2012 They could always have the run local again in Brooklyn to keep all Brighton local residents having frequent service of five minute headways they get now. Astoria and Second Avenue will have trains running every five minutes as well. Like I suggested before, the and can run every ten minutes every day while the runs local with the in Brooklyn to share instead of equalizing ridership on the Brighton Line. The weekday only line has plenty of seats through most of the day anyway. As I said, all this is to reduce the split and merge on the Broadway Line at the 60th tube, 34th and Prince Stations. I don't agree with having the or the separating and then rejoining together again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted November 25, 2012 Share #57 Posted November 25, 2012 With your plan, you'd end up cutting service on the brighton, Sea Beach, and Astoria substantially, in each case almost certainly to the extent that trains would be substantially delayed on all Broadway lines, and all lines which closely interact with it (especially 6th avenue) The two possible ways to eliminate such merges without creating lynchmobs in Astoria as I see them: 1. Totally restructure broadway services. N and R to Astoria, N runs as it does currently, R simply stays on G1/2 instead of diverging to/from GD1/2. Q goes to Forest Hills via 63rd and QB local. This is problematic as you'd create an additional merge on Queens Blvd. Not one which would be a problem from a point of view of capacity, but one MUCH more likely to cause trouble in a place which can't handle trouble. You'd also underserve Queens Plaza and Lex/59. Besides any problems today, you'd have to revert service back to an older pattern when SAS opens in shortly over 4 years. Major confusion ensues. 2. Send the Q local along with the N from Prince-57. This would overserve the local, but so what- Broadway express does not save much time. That said, the current service really does not work that badly, so such really is not justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share #58 Posted November 25, 2012 The one downside for me is the 60th Street Tunnel is only two tracks carring three lines. Not the section of 59th Street, just 60th Street. And for another, I don't agree with having the connection to the SAS from Broadway. But let me not throw out my imagination...... I'll say however that T to Dyre Avenue, Shortline Bus, and Grand Concourse do have a point about the ridership in Astoria and the Brighton Local stops at Avenues M, J, H, U, Neck Road, including the express King Highway, Sheepshead Bay, and Brighton Beach stops have many residents that frequent the Brighton Line there from the eastern areas of Flatbush, Midwood, and Gravesend without the near by a few blocks as alternative. But what I also said would help remove the issues with the 60th tube, 34th and Canal, frequency of service, and longer delays on the . Overall, I guess you're right Art Vandelay. I'm just suggesting an attempt that could be fix in the subway. But of course, that's up to the . So I'm sorry..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted November 25, 2012 Share #59 Posted November 25, 2012 You have nothing to apologize for. I am just saying that the problem you are trying to solve is not nearly as big as the problems you make by solving it. If you cut service to lines which are already at capacity, you will get bigger delays than any which would be caused by merging here. As trains fill up, they take longer at each station, and as they take longer, more people end up at the stations further up the line, making further stops take even more time. Cutting service to either the Brighton or Astoria would quickly start such problems. I notice a number of people here talk about having too many lines in one place. The number of lines is not an issue. The total number of trains on all lines in one area all is what matters. The NRQ together have less than or equal throughput to the E and F together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted November 25, 2012 Share #60 Posted November 25, 2012 No need for apologies, time will tell, time will indeed tell who's right, as there are many on here who will swear on their life that they are indeed right, and not only that others are wrong, but they don't even have a clue. In the end, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share #61 Posted November 30, 2012 The and however both run every ten minutes so that's five minute headways for Astoria through most of the weekday period. Though I'm very surprised how both of which run every five or six minutes at rush hour, no wonder they already have constant delays now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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