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Now that Orion is out of the picture


Turbo19

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Oh okay then we're screwed.

 

 

Care to explain why? I hope you post something thats both logical and factual, not something that I can rip apart in a second.

 

Funny,Bee Line, and NJT are pretty happy with their NABI's, performance wise, it seem to be this forum that dislikes NABI for some reason. Further, NICE should see about piggybacking the DART order, those are good looking buses.

 

 

I've heard the same thing. Bee-Line and NJT are pretty satisfied with the buses along with LACMTA, AC Transit, WMATA, Miami-Dade, RTC and a good few others who have purchased them. I'm pretty sure if they had any major problems, they all would've cut the orders short or stopped ordering them.

 

It's not the forum that dislikes NABIs, I LOVE NABIS! My favorite buses hands down are the old/new 416s, 45C-LFW Compobuses and the 60-BRTs. They are really good buses. It's not everyone who hates NABIs, its just the kids on here who dislike NABI over the littlest, illogical shit possible (like looks, seats, and other small kiddy bullshit) and root for the mainstays. They also listen to hearsay and bullshit. They think they know about the REAL issues of a bus when they don't even know how to wash their own asses or know what 2+2 is!!

 

I'll put it this way: Those who are actually in the know and knows how buses perform and such are the ones that like NABI, like myself and others. Those who whine and bitch about the smallest things possible about the bus are the same ones that don't know two shits about the bus and whats done to it. All they care about are looks, sounds and hearsay/bullshit, especially the NABI haters, and ya'll know who I'm talking about, a bunch of illogical, non-factual, no knowledge having-biased kids!

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Care to explain why? I hope you post something thats both logical and factual, not something that I can rip apart in a second.

 

 

 

I've heard the same thing. Bee-Line and NJT are pretty satisfied with the buses along with LACMTA, AC Transit, WMATA, Miami-Dade, RTC and a good few others who have purchased them. I'm pretty sure if they had any major problems, they all would've cut the orders short or stopped ordering them.

 

It's not the forum that dislikes NABIs, I LOVE NABIS! My favorite buses hands down are the old/new 416s, 45C-LFW Compobuses and the 60-BRTs. They are really good buses. It's not everyone who hates NABIs, its just the kids on here who dislike NABI over the littlest, illogical shit possible (like looks, seats, and other small kiddy bullshit) and root for the mainstays. They also listen to hearsay and bullshit. They think they know about the REAL issues of a bus when they don't even know how to wash their own asses or know what 2+2 is!!

 

I'll put it this way: Those who are actually in the know and knows how buses perform and such are the ones that like NABI, like myself and others. Those who whine and bitch about the smallest things possible about the bus are the same ones that don't know two shits about the bus and whats done to it. All they care about are looks, sounds and hearsay/bullshit, especially the NABI haters, and ya'll know who I'm talking about, a bunch of illogical, non-factual, no knowledge having-biased kids!

 

Hell yeah bro! I will admit some of the older NABI's (around 1992-1997) were of lackluster quality, however that was nearly 20 years ago. Thing is you have dudes bashing a manufactuer or product, then the next generation will go do the same, Eventually it all becomes a bunch of hearsay. I'm not one to judge, but I bet half of these dudes have never ridden a NABI or a Gillig for that matter.

 

I my self have always seen NABI on par with New Flyer, and as of recently, the simalarities between their models make it all the more relevant.

 

And as for Gillig, they were the ridicule of the transit industry for the longest time. Their products were inferior and were often subjected to critic from fans, myself included. However as of late, they've stepped it up, and they need to be given another chance, at least in my opinion.

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Hell yeah bro! I will admit some of the older NABI's (around 1992-1997) were of lackluster quality, however that was nearly 20 years ago. Thing is you have dudes bashing a manufactuer or product, then the next generation will go do the same, Eventually it all becomes a bunch of hearsay. I'm not one to judge, but I bet half of these dudes have never ridden a NABI or a Gillig for that matter.

 

I my self have always seen NABI on par with New Flyer, and as of recently, the simalarities between their models make it all the more relevant.

 

And as for Gillig, they were the ridicule of the transit industry for the longest time. Their products were inferior and were often subjected to critic from fans, myself included. However as of late, they've stepped it up, and they need to be given another chance, at least in my opinion.

 

 

I would love to see either Gillig or NABI (NABI preferrably) be the new face of Long Island's Nassau Inter-County Express. I've been on a whole host of NABI buses from different places along with Gilligs and some have their ups and downs, but they both do make pretty decent products, NABI more than Gillig.

 

Aside from the folks who live in NJ and whatnot, I don't think any of the NYC fans who are hating on NABI has never even been on one before as well. It's just a bunch of hearsay and bullshit along with little kiddy shit.

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I would love to see either Gillig or NABI (NABI preferrably) be the new face of Long Island's Nassau Inter-County Express. I've been on a whole host of NABI buses from different places along with Gilligs and some have their ups and downs, but they both do make pretty decent products, NABI more than Gillig.

 

Aside from the folks who live in NJ and whatnot, I don't think any of the NYC fans who are hating on NABI has never even been on one before as well. It's just a bunch of hearsay and bullshit along with little kiddy shit.

 

 

 

Appreciate your feedback, I know NABI, I drove a CompoBus while my son went to College in Tempe, literal tank, I also while with the NTSB saw a 45C destroy a light rail in a one on one, then reenter service within a month. I also believe the 45C would be the alternative to artics on the heavy north shore routes. We all know NABI's stance on doing business with the MTA, but as with Westchester and NJT, NICE would be a logical extension, also there are rumblings that NJT may get some 45C's when the budget crunch eases.

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I would love to see either Gillig or NABI (NABI preferrably) be the new face of Long Island's Nassau Inter-County Express. I've been on a whole host of NABI buses from different places along with Gilligs and some have their ups and downs, but they both do make pretty decent products, NABI more than Gillig.

 

Aside from the folks who live in NJ and whatnot, I don't think any of the NYC fans who are hating on NABI has never even been on one before as well. It's just a bunch of hearsay and bullshit along with little kiddy shit.

 

 

NABI is a good bus builder along with Gillig. The articulated hybrid NABIs are nice despite having problems and they ride nicely too. The Gillig BRT is also a good bus as well despite having a few less seats then the Phantoms. I have not been on a NABI 416 yet, but I've heard good reviews about them in South Florida. Until some of these guys ride the buses from both NABI and Gillig they can't say a bus is garbage if they have not been on them at all. Talk is cheap.

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I've been on nabis before

 

Pretty solid buses, the 416 is rigid, I might even go as far to say it's more rigid than an Orion smooth ride, nice sounds.

 

Gilligs on the other hand I've only ridden like once or twice years back

 

I won't bash them, but for a NYC. Application they'd have to built pretty strong this isn't the small regions where they're accustomed to.

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I've been on nabis before

 

Pretty solid buses, the 416 is rigid, I might even go as far to say it's more rigid than an Orion smooth ride, nice sounds.

 

Gilligs on the other hand I've only ridden like once or twice years back

 

I won't bash them, but for a NYC. Application they'd have to built pretty strong this isn't the small regions where they're accustomed to.

 

 

For the general NYC area, sure, considering that NYMTA is the only TA that requires a shaker test.

 

For the Long Island area? Hell, if the Gilligs could run out there, so can the NABIs!

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How about we all stop hoping for the crap and look forward to C40LFRs, XN40s, or LFS CNGs...

 

I know I'm gonna get flamed for that, but really, why look forward to NABI or Gillig when you can look forward to some PROVEN better buses? All I said before was that it's possible NICE was gonna go cheap on this one, but we don't have to hope for that...

 

How about RTS CNGs from MTS?

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How about we all stop hoping for the crap and look forward to C40LFRs, XN40s, or LFS CNGs...

 

I know I'm gonna get flamed for that, but really, why look forward to NABI or Gillig when you can look forward to some PROVEN better buses? All I said before was that it's possible NICE was gonna go cheap on this one, but we don't have to hope for that...

 

 

 

Proven eh?

 

Lets see....

 

Cleveland RTA

Baltimore MTA

Orange County Transportation Authority

VIA Transit

LACMTA (which is one of the MAIN cities with NABIs, a proven host indeed)

WMATA

RTC

New Jersey Transit

SEPTA

Miami-Dade Transit

Santa Monica Big Blue Metro

Valley Metro

SCAT

RTD

MTS San Diego

Bee-Line

MBTA

Dallas DART

Arlington Transit

Foothill Transit

Denver Regional Transit District

Milton Transit

Rockford Mass Transit District

 

A long slew of other TAs are along this list. With all of the TAs mentioned here thus far....the product sounds PROVEN to me! Just because YOU don't like them doesn't mean the product is not proven. Go take that non-factual, biased sack of bullshit elsewhere!

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How about we all stop hoping for the crap and look forward to C40LFRs, XN40s, or LFS CNGs...

 

I know I'm gonna get flamed for that, but really, why look forward to NABI or Gillig when you can look forward to some PROVEN better buses? All I said before was that it's possible NICE was gonna go cheap on this one, but we don't have to hope for that...

 

How about RTS CNGs from MTS?

 

 

 

That's such a contradiction you dolt

 

THERE ISN'T EVEN A LFS CNG YET, the XN40 only had like 5 operators and isn't proven

And MTS hasn't started a production Run yet.

 

 

If NABI was crap 80% of the west wouldn't be running of them like they are now

 

And If Gillig was crap it wouldn't be providing buses to many suburban regions

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The Xcelsior and LFS are proven platforms, maybe not the CNG versions quite yet, but the bus itself is a proven platform.

 

The Millennium RTS is based on a proven design trusted for over 30 YEARS!

 

 

And If Gillig was crap it wouldn't be providing buses to many suburban regions

 

Exactly, their buses are almost exclusively operated in small, usually suburban transit systems, which doesn't scream "high quality" to me. While NICE is a suburban system, it's still pretty large and serves some major urban districts.

 

I'll admit me being against NABI is more of an opinion, but I still don't see their buses being as high-quality as Nova and NFI.

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The Xcelsior and LFS are proven platforms, maybe not the CNG versions quite yet, but the bus itself is a proven platform.

 

The Millennium RTS is based on a proven design trusted for over 30 YEARS!

 

 

 

Exactly, their buses are almost exclusively operated in small, usually suburban transit systems, which doesn't scream "high quality" to me. While NICE is a suburban system, it's still pretty large and serves some major urban districts.

 

I'll admit me being against NABI is more of an opinion, but I still don't see their buses being as high-quality as Nova and NFI.

 

 

The Xcelsiors are a proven product.....that statement has "lol im a complete joke and a foamer" all over it. First and foremost, the Xcelsior models that are at TAs as we speak are not even over a year old, second, if it really was such a proven product, they would not be beaten by the likes of Volvo(NovaBUS), NABI, Gillig. Third, the product itself is too new, so its not "proven" just yet.

 

A PROVEN product is the NovaBUS LFS, NABI 40-LFW, NABI 45C-LFW, NABI 60-BRT just to name a few. There also wouldnt be so many recalls with the Xcelsior models as well, New Flyer issued a recall on all of the new BAE Hybrid Xcelsiors, such a proven product.....not!

 

Yes, Millienium Transit's design is based on one of the most superior bus models of our time, but just how many of them are running in the big, STRESS inducing cities? NONE....YET! Plus there is not even an actual production run starting up just yet.

 

Cut it out with the bias and stop passing off your opinions as facts. The last two posts, you completely contradicted yourself. Until you have some actual and reasonable facts, don't bother posting shit about manufacturers. you are making yourself look like a foamer and a joke.

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How about we all stop hoping for the crap and look forward to C40LFRs, XN40s, or LFS CNGs...

 

I know I'm gonna get flamed for that, but really, why look forward to NABI or Gillig when you can look forward to some PROVEN better buses? All I said before was that it's possible NICE was gonna go cheap on this one, but we don't have to hope for that...

 

How about RTS CNGs from MTS?

 

 

If you call NABI and Gillig crap I think you need to look at this. All of those operators don't lie it's right there and you can feel free to look it up on the internet if your not satisfied.

 

http://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Gillig#Current_Models

 

http://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=North_American_Bus_Industries#Current_Models

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Whatever, I'm done with this thread. I'm tired of arguing over this BS. Don't agree with me fine, but the arguing makes us ALL look like foamers. See ya later...

 

 

Not exactly, you single-handedly made yourself look like a foamer in this discussion with our lack of facts and complete utter bias. That wasn't our fault brah.

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Not exactly, you single-handedly made yourself look like a foamer in this discussion with our lack of facts and complete utter bias. That wasn't our fault brah.

 

I'm not afraid to admit I can be a foamer at times. I'm very biased towards Orion, NFI, Nova, and MTS, and that's my opinion. Maybe some of the buses I don't like are factually decent buses, but I still have my reasons to like the buses I like, and a lot of those reasons are opinion-based and I'm not afraid to admit that.

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Should the thread close, I'd like to state my unbiased opinion. I believe that New Flyer Industries' C40LFR would be the best choice for NICE under the following conditions:

1.Quality of the product.

2.Value of the product.

3.Preformance of the product.

 

Following New Flyer, in relation to these standards are: NABI's 40-LFW CNG with Gillig's Advantage BRTPlus CNG following. Regarding models not yet released: MTS Extreme CNG and Nova LFS CNG following.

 

After soliciting some of your opinions, it is obvious soe may not agree, but I believe the following choices are best for NICE.

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We have the older 2003-04 NABI 40LFWs up here in Boston, and those buses are definitely a cut or two below the D40LFs and AN440LFs. They don't really ride any better (and possibly a bit worse) than our 1994-95 RTS fleet, and they're almost never put on longer-distance or express routes.

 

The 40LFW's have done OK at Arborway garage but have definitely done more poorly on the Cabot routes, to the point where the MBTA used the need for camera buses as justification to 'temporarily' assign New Flyer D40LF's at Cabot for the past six years.

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I'm not afraid to admit I can be a foamer at times. I'm very biased towards Orion, NFI, Nova, and MTS, and that's my opinion. Maybe some of the buses I don't like are factually decent buses, but I still have my reasons to like the buses I like, and a lot of those reasons are opinion-based and I'm not afraid to admit that.

 

 

Whoop de do your not afraid to share your opinion. Opinions do not suffice in the realm of prior knowledge and data. Gillig has had buses that have proven themselves in working environments and so has NABI. Denying that is ignorant. Orion, Nova, and NF also have had buses are reliable but they also have their lemons- they are not perfect. You need to look beyond your own opinion and see the industry as it is.

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Whoop de do your not afraid to share your opinion. Opinions do not suffice in the realm of prior knowledge and data. Gillig has had buses that have proven themselves in working environments and so has NABI. Denying that is ignorant. Orion, Nova, and NF also have had buses are reliable but they also have their lemons- they are not perfect. You need to look beyond your own opinion and see the industry as it is.

 

EVERY bus has their lemons!

 

What I'm saying is me liking the buses I like is somewhat not because of the way they factually perform, but rather my opinions on them (the way they look, etc.). There's plenty of people here who like buses because of the way they look, sound, etc. and they don't get flamed. But I'm singled out and targeted here.

 

I really don't know why I'm still arguing...

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The 40LFW's have done OK at Arborway garage but have definitely done more poorly on the Cabot routes, to the point where the MBTA used the need for camera buses as justification to 'temporarily' assign New Flyer D40LF's at Cabot for the past six years.

 

 

That would be about right based on what I've seen. The NABIs mostly do fine on low-use routes like the 51 and can deal with mid-range routes like a lot of the stuff coming out of Forest Hills, but they get kicked around pretty badly on really high-usage lines like the 1 and the 8, and I'm betting that management refrains from putting them on express routes for a reason (the Flyers and the Neoplans, on the other hand, are generally a joy to ride). I'm not sure whether that's true of the newer buses, but from what I've seen of their performance in a mid-range urban and suburban environment comparable to that of western Nassau county I'd recommend against buying from them.

 

Now, so far Bee-Line and NJT don't seem to have a problem with their NABIs. As best I can tell, that could be for one of two reasons; either the second- and third-generation LFWs have legitimately improved compared to their ancestors, or NABIs tend to do fine initially and then their performance fades out far more quickly than with other brands. I legitimately don't know which of these is the case; I suspect the latter, but I can't confirm that because I haven't really spent time riding a batch of NABIs from delivery through middle age. Based on what I've seen of the Metro 45C on the forum I'd probably put it in a class with New Flyer buses, LFS/As, and the Orion Vs/VII 3Gs, and I'd actually like to see the MBTA or the MTA get some on a trial basis. I just doubt that a transit agency going for the cheapest option would spring for NABI's premium line, and I have no idea whether the newer 40LFWs are built as well as the Metro-Cs.

 

As for Gilligs, I seriously doubt that they'd do well in Long Island. Again, I have experience riding on them; the EZ-Ride shuttle service from University Park and Cambridgeport to North Station uses a mixed fleet of Gillig Advantages and El Dorado EZ-Riders. Generally speaking the Gilligs tend to ride worse than the El Dorados, decidedly worse than the NABIs, and about the same as the Ford cutaways that we use for some shuttle services. Hell, even the company that runs the shuttle services (Paul Revere Transportation) prefers to run DD50-era AN440LFs and early to mid-1990s D40LFs on the Harvard-Longwood route and puts the Gilligs on the EZRide.

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7690651816_a3ca36fa1a_b.jpg

 

 

I heard they didn't fair to well and were retired 12 years after being delivered (In the defense of the Phantoms the model was still new in the late 1980s, so some issues were still being worked out).

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