VWM Posted October 1, 2012 Share #51 Posted October 1, 2012 NABI's got some cool buses in thier line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerboy6561 Posted October 2, 2012 Share #52 Posted October 2, 2012 NABI's got some cool buses in thier line... They do, and I'd love to see Compos in the New York metro area. My only question is whether NICE will be willing to shell out for Compos (given that they're basically NABI's premium line and may not be eligible for Buy America subsidies on top of that) if they turn to NABI because they don't think they can afford New Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted October 3, 2012 Share #53 Posted October 3, 2012 From all my information from a February conversation with the Route Designer Rahul Kumar, they prefer New Flyer buses, I am pretty sure Veolia will opt for New Flyers considering it their purchase history and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted October 3, 2012 Share #54 Posted October 3, 2012 From all my information from a February conversation with the Route Designer Rahul Kumar, they prefer New Flyer buses, I am pretty sure Veolia will opt for New Flyers considering it their purchase history and beyond... Yay! Hope they eventually go with the Xcelsior, if not in the next order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted October 3, 2012 Share #55 Posted October 3, 2012 From all my information from a February conversation with the Route Designer Rahul Kumar, they prefer New Flyer buses, I am pretty sure Veolia will opt for New Flyers considering it their purchase history and beyond... Yay! Hope they eventually go with the Xcelsior, if not in the next order. I heard the exact same thing from NICE. Big possibility they will go with New Flyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted October 4, 2012 Share #56 Posted October 4, 2012 You guys do know that it has been proven before that some orders of New Flyers have been lemons too! Same can be said for every company! I heard they didn't fair to well and were retired 12 years after being delivered (In the defense of the Phantoms the model was still new in the late 1980s, so some issues were still being worked out). Phantoms were one of Gilligs best models! Pretty sold bus. Reason why there are every were in small to medium to large systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted October 4, 2012 Share #57 Posted October 4, 2012 You guys do know that it has been proven before that some orders of New Flyers have been lemons too! Same can be said for every company! Phantoms were one of Gilligs best models! Pretty sold bus. Reason why there are every were in small to medium to large systems >gillig >solid Pick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted October 4, 2012 Share #58 Posted October 4, 2012 >gillig >solid Pick one. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted October 5, 2012 Share #59 Posted October 5, 2012 Anybody know when Suffolk will order new buses? Who does everyone think Suffolk would order from? Probably Gillig again, I wonder if Nassau (oops I meant Suffolk) regrets ordering from Orion? They could have stayed a mostly Gillig fleet now they'll be stuck with Orions in the mix for at least another decade.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWM Posted October 5, 2012 Share #60 Posted October 5, 2012 Anybody know when Suffolk will order new buses? Who does everyone think Suffolk would order from? Probably Gillig again, I wonder if Nassau regrets ordering from Orion? They could have stayed a mostly Gillig fleet now they'll be stuck with Orions in the mix for at least another decade.... uh, no... Those Orion V's took a beating, and most are still chugging along fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted October 5, 2012 Share #61 Posted October 5, 2012 I meant Suffolk not Nassau... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted October 12, 2012 Share #62 Posted October 12, 2012 I rerember seeing these buses all the time on that N91, they used mostly Gilligs, a few diesel Orion V's and ONE orion V CNG (1996-98) ones, too bad the N91 didn't do well in terms of ridership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted October 12, 2012 Share #63 Posted October 12, 2012 I rerember seeing these buses all the time on that N91, they used mostly Gilligs, a few diesel Orion V's and ONE orion V CNG (1996-98) ones, too bad the N91 didn't do well in terms of ridership They also had Thomas school buses IIRC. I believe the different buses were used due to the N91 being operated by LIB Paratransit B/Os for some reason, I think it was a union thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted October 12, 2012 Share #64 Posted October 12, 2012 I remember a long time driver they used to do the JFK shuttles for flight crews in para busses. Bring the flight crews from JFK to the hotels in Nasssu County. Sounds like a pretty cool gig maybe NICE could look into this for additional revenue. I now flight crews still use the Mariot in the Nassau Colisuem bc ironically enough I saw a flight crew checking in when the Veolia job fair was going on at the hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted October 12, 2012 Share #65 Posted October 12, 2012 >gillig >solid Pick one. You need to travel more and see different systems besides the NYC area if you think Gillig is crap! Gillig is one of the main reasons why Orion shut down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E train line Posted October 12, 2012 Share #66 Posted October 12, 2012 No it will work at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted October 12, 2012 Share #67 Posted October 12, 2012 You need to travel more and see different systems besides the NYC area if you think Gillig is crap! Gillig is one of the main reasons why Orion shut down! Which is actually true, they've been taking orders from places that Orion was considered to be a "Shoe-In". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted October 12, 2012 Share #68 Posted October 12, 2012 You need to travel more and see different systems besides the NYC area if you think Gillig is crap! Gillig is one of the main reasons why Orion shut down! Now that's something I did not know. But it makes sense ever since Gillig introduced CNG options and the BAE system for hybrids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted October 12, 2012 Share #69 Posted October 12, 2012 Ok, I'm a little late to this, but I'm going to go ahead and chime in now because I have a different view from most as I have consulted with most all large and a few small agencies across the country. Many of you I tend to agree with 99% of the time, but I must clear a few things up here. As for Orion VII For Life, I tend to notice that many of his opinions are definitely "fan based," however, you guys shouldn't jump all over him in this thread. Some of what he said is actually true. Shocking though but Gilligs are pretty soild buses! Gilligs are definitely NOT solid buses. Gilligs hold up in the west, and the south well because they are not put through the same paces as cities in the mid-west and east. Of the nearly 400 Gilligs bus drivers surveyed 99% of them can't stand the bus. I have also driven the Phanton, and Advantage low floors myself, and I am in total agreeance. They are hell on your back, they handle horribly, they are the worse ever on snow and ice, they have major rotting problems, and most agencies on the east and mid-west that have Gilligs between the years of 2000-2009 are already experiencing cracks in the front a-pillar. Many agencies have had gas tanks develop cracks, and this extends to the west and south. The breaking system is horrible, and if you slam on the breaks, the bus lurches to the right, The suspension is horrible, and the ride quality leaves much to be desired. The BRT buses are slightly better, but it's a small improvement over a long time problem. American buses just can't handle heavy-duty transit anymore. After the 870 FUBAR we basically fell off. Hard. If only we could convince the foamers.... Not true. New Flyer, Nova, NABI and MTS have proven they can make "real" heavy-duty buses. How about we all stop hoping for the crap and look forward to C40LFRs, XN40s, or LFS CNGs... I know I'm gonna get flamed for that, but really, why look forward to NABI or Gillig when you can look forward to some PROVEN better buses? All I said before was that it's possible NICE was gonna go cheap on this one, but we don't have to hope for that... How about RTS CNGs from MTS? You can cancel the C40LFR idea. Those buses are on the chopping block. The only way NF will sell LFR's if if the customer is totally against the Xcelsior. The LFR era has come to an end. The RTS CNG low floor has not yet been released, however, you can still classify them as they are now technically able to bid on a NICE/Veolia contract. So you can't actually rule them out. The current RTS team, which was there since the GM/TMC, and Nova days have decades of experience building CNG RTS buses. When it comes to the rear end engineering of the bus, the LF is exactly the same as the HF they have been building for years. Most of you all need to remember that even though the RTS operations have changed hands quite a few times, the people building buses now have been there for decades. As a matter of fact, MTS just bid on a low floor contract, so they are definitely in the game and they just dealt their first hand of cards! The Xcelsiors are a proven product.....that statement has "lol im a complete joke and a foamer" all over it. First and foremost, the Xcelsior models that are at TAs as we speak are not even over a year old, second, if it really was such a proven product, they would not be beaten by the likes of Volvo(NovaBUS), NABI, Gillig. Third, the product itself is too new, so its not "proven" just yet. A PROVEN product is the NovaBUS LFS, NABI 40-LFW, NABI 45C-LFW, NABI 60-BRT just to name a few. There also wouldnt be so many recalls with the Xcelsior models as well, New Flyer issued a recall on all of the new BAE Hybrid Xcelsiors, such a proven product.....not! Yes, Millienium Transit's design is based on one of the most superior bus models of our time, but just how many of them are running in the big, STRESS inducing cities? NONE....YET! Plus there is not even an actual production run starting up just yet. Cut it out with the bias and stop passing off your opinions as facts. The last two posts, you completely contradicted yourself. Until you have some actual and reasonable facts, don't bother posting shit about manufacturers. you are making yourself look like a foamer and a joke. Some of this is correct. The Xcelsior is definitely not a proven bus yet. Once a bus reaches the 6-12 year mark, that's when we can tell. However, even though the RTS LF has yet to be proven, the low floor has still been put through the paces, and the engineering mule has more than 12,000 miles on it to date. The bus is 100% RTS with a low floor. The only real differences are the suspension, and the front end design which has yet to be seen. So in the eyes of many mechanics, engineers, and bus operator alike, the RTS is proven. All other low floor buses are built on new platforms that are different from the high floors they succeed. The only things that will not be proven on the RTS LF when it enters service is the suspension, multiplexing system, wheelchair ramp, and front floor section. The structure is 35 years proven. No other low floor can say that. Whoop de do your not afraid to share your opinion. Opinions do not suffice in the realm of prior knowledge and data. Gillig has had buses that have proven themselves in working environments and so has NABI. Denying that is ignorant. Orion, Nova, and NF also have had buses are reliable but they also have their lemons- they are not perfect. You need to look beyond your own opinion and see the industry as it is. See above. Actually, Long Island Bus had some Gilligs in early 2000 - 2001. Trash, but still the best Gilligs ever built. Did Nassau ever order anymore????? From all my information from a February conversation with the Route Designer Rahul Kumar, they prefer New Flyer buses, I am pretty sure Veolia will opt for New Flyers considering it their purchase history and beyond... They also have a good relationship with NABI. Their closest partnership by far was with Daimler buses. Don't count out MTS either when it comes to future Veolia procurement. You guys do know that it has been proven before that some orders of New Flyers have been lemons too! Same can be said for every company! Phantoms were one of Gilligs best models! Pretty sold bus. Reason why there are every were in small to medium to large systems True everyone has built lemons, but Nova has the best record by far when it comes to building solid buses. I have yet to hear of a Prevost product that was a lemon except for the RTS WFD. And that was mainly a Vapor Door issue that plagued that bus. The front suspension could have been better as well. As I mentioned above, The Phantom was definitely the best Gillig model. It's just too bad that they didn't start to get really good until they were being discontinued. You need to travel more and see different systems besides the NYC area if you think Gillig is crap! Gillig is one of the main reasons why Orion shut down! Gillig underbid Orion most of the time, and they are the second largest bus builder next to New Flyer. They dominate the small and medium markets because they are cheap options that meet their demands. Gillig buses do quite well in these areas. Some of the best Gilligs I have been on, and under the hood of are the ones at The University of Michigan, and the Ann Arbor Transportation Authority. The ones at the U of M, are the best I have been on so far. Almost as if they were built better just for the U of M. Ann Arbor buses are pretty good too, but the common issues still arise. Especially in the winter, which not even the U of M buses are immune to. Many agencies have no choice other than awarding to the lowest bidder. Many agencies that operate the buses they have are not by choice, but rather procurement process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted October 12, 2012 Share #70 Posted October 12, 2012 Thanks for clearing all of that up ENY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted October 12, 2012 Share #71 Posted October 12, 2012 You need to travel more and see different systems besides the NYC area if you think Gillig is crap! Gillig is one of the main reasons why Orion shut down! Not really to be honest. Depends on your reasons. And what you think Gillig has going for them. I'll give you a hint: Price. Their prices are attractive enough that they will always be guaranteed a steady stream of orders, and their overhead is low enough to maintain that pricing to frequently outbid competitors on 'low-bid' contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted October 12, 2012 Share #72 Posted October 12, 2012 True everyone has built lemons, but Nova has the best record by far when it comes to building solid buses. I have yet to hear of a Prevost product that was a lemon except for the RTS WFD. And that was mainly a Vapor Door issue that plagued that bus. The front suspension could have been better as well. Over time, yes. The first few years of LFS had problems that are not unheard of in new buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted October 13, 2012 Share #73 Posted October 13, 2012 I will always be an Orion fan over Gillig but after seeing Gilligs 1st hand and riding Torrance Transits 1993 Phantoms I fell in love with them. Also Tilley its cause of the GIllig offering CNG and BAE system and Nova back in the USA market didnt help Orion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted October 13, 2012 Share #74 Posted October 13, 2012 I will always be an Orion fan over Gillig but after seeing Gilligs 1st hand and riding Torrance Transits 1993 Phantoms I fell in love with them. Also Tilley its cause of the GIllig offering CNG and BAE system and Nova back in the USA market didnt help Orion. Right it didn't "help" them but it's not the other manufacturers fault as you tried to claim in your other post. It's just that the others have been more willing to underbid for contracts and keep a more diverse portfolio of customers (not that Orion didn't have a diverse mix, just not as large). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted October 13, 2012 Share #75 Posted October 13, 2012 Right it didn't "help" them but it's not the other manufacturers fault as you tried to claim in your other post. It's just that the others have been more willing to underbid for contracts and keep a more diverse portfolio of customers (not that Orion didn't have a diverse mix, just not as large). It's a dog eat dog world, these companies need to do what they need to do to survive. If anyone here thinks they would run a rival company and not underbid the competition they would not be running that company for long because their actions would A) could lead to the demise of that company and/or B) the board of directors would replace them quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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