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Mysterious2train

Bx41 +SelectBusService

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The MTA & DOT revealed their tentative list of stops for the Bx41 SBS recently. It's exactly the same as the current Bx41 Limited, save the 180 St stop getting moved to 183 St. Likewise, the route is the same as it's been these past two years. It's going to run all day, naturally. A lot of people at the 1st workshop apparently expressed a desire for the route to go back to 138 St, but that went no where.

 

http://www.nyc.gov/h...s/webster.shtml <- The DOT's page for this project, has links to all relevant info, like old workshops and street designs.

 

I can't see the Bx55 lasting too much longer with SBS on the 41, too bad it couldn't get SBS too.

Edited by Mysterious2train
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Well at least they got rid of 180th... If you need the bx36, catch it at Tremont Ave..

 

Tho, sadly they couldn't at least have it connect to the sbs15...That would boost up ridership, and give the bx15 some air..

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I can't see the Bx55 lasting too much longer with SBS on the 41, too bad it couldn't get SBS too.

 

I can see the Bx55 being folded into a new Bx15 Limited. The only thing they would have to do is get rid of the Williamsbridge leg of the 55.

 

Now that the Bx2 is all-local heading down 3rd Avenue in addition to the Bx21, a Bx15LTD can run through to 138th Street without it being deemed redundant. The LTD buses can even run to Manhattan to trim down run times while the local buses can stay in the Bronx.

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I can see the Bx55 being folded into a new Bx15 Limited. The only thing they would have to do is get rid of the Williamsbridge leg of the 55.

 

Now that the Bx2 is all-local heading down 3rd Avenue in addition to the Bx21, a Bx15LTD can run through to 138th Street without it being deemed redundant. The LTD buses can even run to Manhattan to trim down run times while the local buses can stay in the Bronx.

 

 

The Bx55 could still stick around. It still has the ridership.

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Guest MTA Bus

This is pretty cool. This will probably really help the Bx41. Hopefully, this won't end up like the B44 SBS, which I doubt will be done by this time next year.

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This is pretty cool. This will probably really help the Bx41. Hopefully, this won't end up like the B44 SBS, which I doubt will be done by this time next year.

 

 

It wont happen. Unlike the Norstrand Avenue bunch, people who are in the affected areas arent too car crazy.

 

Plus its not everyday someone wants to improve transit in the Bronx. Something residents are well aware of.

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So that mean what ever 32 set of 2011 Nova Bus LFS articulated that Kingsbridge depot have will be wrapped to Select Bus Service? Except saying Bx41 Limited? So how many set.

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So that mean what ever 32 set of 2011 Nova Bus LFS articulated that Kingsbridge depot have will be wrapped to Select Bus Service? Except saying Bx41 Limited? So how many set.

 

Please explain how we would have this information while it's still in planning stages.

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Aww man, I was actually hoping for them to stick with their original layout with having the bus stops in the middle of the street. I guess the residents opposed the idea and found some problems with it.

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At least it's a good thing the Bx41 didn't go up to Wakefield. How would SBS be set up then?

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Aww man, I was actually hoping for them to stick with their original layout with having the bus stops in the middle of the street. I guess the residents opposed the idea and found some problems with it.

 

 

TBH, I had a feeling this plan wouldn't proceed. I've remembered in the passed, the (MTA) has brought up this or a similar idea for like the M34SBS (And other SBS?), and even THAT never happened. I'm sure the default plan will always be having the lanes to the right. Regardless of how many times they will bring this up. This so far is the cheapest way for them.

 

At least it's a good thing the Bx41 didn't go up to Wakefield. How would SBS be set up then?

 

 

Well, you could still send the Bx41 +SBS to Wakefield. Ether... Continue the Bx41 up on Webster (after E. Gun Hill), and turn it at 238th Street, continue to Baychester Ave/241st St. Lay over, back down White Plains Road, right turn on 238th to Webster Ave and normal.

 

OR If via Gun Hill/White Plains Road, just have it mixed with traffic. It I'll only add about 10-20min commute, between GH and 241 (Via 238th & Baychester, like the original route). Machines will be at the sidewalk.

Edited by mark1447

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Tho, sadly they couldn't at least have it connect to the sbs15...That would boost up ridership, and give the bx15 some air..

 

 

It's funny because you'd think the Bx55 would be the go-to route to help out the Bx15.

 

I can see the Bx55 being folded into a new Bx15 Limited. The only thing they would have to do is get rid of the Williamsbridge leg of the 55.

 

Now that the Bx2 is all-local heading down 3rd Avenue in addition to the Bx21, a Bx15LTD can run through to 138th Street without it being deemed redundant. The LTD buses can even run to Manhattan to trim down run times while the local buses can stay in the Bronx.

 

 

I see what you're getting at, and I think it's pretty stupid that would even be considered redundant. I mean, if the ridership is there for service to 138th, should it really matter how many other bus routes already go there? As an aside, it was borough president Ruben Diaz Jr. specifically who asked the DOT/MTA specifically to look into service to 138th St [and the OP is kind of misleading on that part]

 

The Bx55 could still stick around. It still has the ridership.

 

 

This isn't really directed at you, but the Bx55 has ridership for what? Enough to stick around, but not enough to get SBS too? I mean, the 15 and 55 together on 3 Av is roughly as busy, if not busier than the 41 on Webster. Did the MTA think it redundant? Not worth the extra expenses? Concerned about farebeating on 3 Av? [Of course, I'm not trying to insinuate that the 41 doesn't have its fare-beaters, but if you ask me it's a lot worse on 3 Av]

 

It wont happen. Unlike the Norstrand Avenue bunch, people who are in the affected areas arent too car crazy.

 

Plus its not everyday someone wants to improve transit in the Bronx. Something residents are well aware of.

 

 

That's a pretty sweeping generalization about the B44. It's only the neighborhoods on the Southern part of the route in Sheepshead Bay and Midwood that are more car-oriented. The rest of the route, except maybe Williamsburg, runs through neighborhoods with less cars and dependent on mass transit. And if you're referring specifically to CB 15 in Sheepshead Bay voting against SBS because they opposed the bus lane planned down there, I don't believe that was related to any of the delays at all. Irrelevant, but I have to agree with them in that the bus lane down there isn't really needed. Traffic down there isn't that bad, the DOT even has the stats to prove it!

 

At least it's a good thing the Bx41 didn't go up to Wakefield. How would SBS be set up then?

 

 

I imagine it would just make Limited stops like the subway or the BxM11. It happened with the M15 on the all-local part below Houston St, and it's planned with the B44 below Avenue U. I wonder if the MTA sees an expense like fare machines on WPR kind of redundant with the subway underneath [even though the 41 isn't really redundant to the subway at all, since there's a lot of people on WPR going down Webster, I'm just offering a potential motive.]

 

Well, you could still send the Bx41 +SBS to Wakefield. Ether... Continue the Bx41 up on Webster (after E. Gun Hill), and turn it at 238th Street, continue to Baychester Ave/241st St. Lay over, back down White Plains Road, right turn on 238th to Webster Ave and normal.

 

 

You could do that, but you'd pretty much be shafting anyone who's going below Nereid Av. It wouldn't even serve White Plains Road & Gun Hill Road anymore. Below 233 St, what is there to serve anyway? Or rather, would the skipped people be worth the faster ride?

Edited by Mysterious2train

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I see what you're getting at, and I think it's pretty stupid that would even be considered redundant. I mean, if the ridership is there for service to 138th, should it really matter how many other bus routes already go there? As an aside, it was borough president Ruben Diaz Jr. specifically who asked the DOT/MTA specifically to look into service to 138th St [and the OP is kind of misleading on that part]

There are enough routes and service on paper, but ridership is another issue. If more people are coming from 3rd and Webster Avenue to go to 138th than the Concourse or Morris Park, the overall service doesn't really matter.

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I don't think so. This talks about the Bx41 having SBS. The pther talks about a possible extention to LGA Airport. In the future we can probably merge them, after the MTA does a decision, but for now, lets just keep to overall Bx41 SBS discussion here, and merge it when the MTA extends or cancells the plan for the Bx41 to LaGuardia.

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If your saying reroute the Bx41 +SBS completely via 3rd Ave, thats a negative. Tons of folks on Webster won't be pleased. Passing the 41 a lot, sees crowds during the RH.

 

I would actually keep the Bx55. While things for it is at the medium, it could continue to give customers an alternative to the Bx41 SBS which could likely hit the crowd mark. (Rush hours mainly). If anything, the Bx55 could just turn into another M98, by making it Rush hours instead.

 

 

 

X-posting this from the Bx41 to LaGuardia thread. I just don't understand the decision to pick the Bx41 over the 55. This isn't really directed at you, mark, since I know you were talking about SBS on the 55 too, but I think your post is a great example of the thinking used here, and what could happen to the 55.

 

There's a Subway-turned Limited that runs all-day, every day, 20 hours a day, and one that's Rush-Hour only, and the latter gets picked and the former gets cut down. I mean, by making the 41 SBS an all-day, every-day thing you're pretty much just bringing back service that used to belong to the 55 on the Weekend and on Weekday evenings, and putting it on Webster Av instead. Did the MTA plan the Bx55 and Bx41 cuts with this in mind? Or did they realize how much of a bone-headed move the Bx55 cut was, seeing the big drop in ridership on 3 Av, and decide to lure back people with the 41? The best part is, the MTA can claim that Bx41 SBS increased ridership and was a big success, even though some of those riders will be, without a doubt, displaced off-peak 55 riders. Of course, one SBS route is better than nothing, so even if the 55 suffers from this, it'll still be a 'success'.

 

If Webster Av saw more patronage than 3 Av, I could understand this, but that's really not the case. At minimum, it's equal. I mean, there probably are riders who take the 55 (and I guess the 15) just because together they're generally more ubiquitous than the 41 (and on Weekdays, the 55 goes to Williamsbridge) but the MTA shouldn't be taking service from 3 Av just to give it to Webster. I mean, even now, with the frequency of 55 service being reduced for the past year, 3 Av still has more service than Webster, all day long. Am I supposed to take it that Webster Av is just grossly underserved relative to 3 Av or what?

 

Ideally they'd both get SBS and I can understand the MTA not wanting to spend the $$$, and I know that the 55 is not the route it once was (the advent of the Metrocard free transfer helping with that) but this just makes no sense to me at all. I'm genuinely curious to learn the MTA and DOT's decision-making process for picking the 41, and not the 55.

Edited by Mysterious2train

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Ideally they'd both get SBS and I can understand the MTA not wanting to spend the $$$, and I know that the 55 is not the route it once was (the advent of the Metrocard free transfer helping with that) but this just makes no sense to me at all. I'm genuinely curious to learn the MTA and DOT's decision-making process for picking the 41, and not the 55.

 

 

I cant speak for the original decision to cut Bx55 service to what it is now, but I can give a few reasons why IMO the Bx41 seems logical than the Bx55.

 

1. Webster Avenue is wider than than Third Avenue, thus easier to put a bus lane without community opposition.

 

2. The Bx55 would require a drastic change in schedule as opposed to the Bx41 which is already there, already full time and about to get SBS anyway.

 

3. Williamsbridge to E 149th Street via Webster is for the most part a straight shot. The turn to get to Third Avenue at Fordham poses a threat to the MTA's "ideal" SBS setting.

 

4. Something you already mentioned; Third Avenue already has frequent service. Might as well give to the street that needs it more. Plus this takes pressure of the Bx15 for some distance.

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Sorry for the incoming body of text, but I just can't wrap my head around this.

 

1. That's true, but if the MTA/DOT said they wanted to put SBS on the 55 I think they could be able to get in a bus lane. I don't think a bus lane on Webster would be as easy to get through if not for SBS on the 41.

 

2. The Bx41 is 24/7 compared to the 15.5/5 Bx55, but that's local service. The Bx41 SBS is supposed to run all day, every day, which is going to be brand-new service (although, the Bx41 local will probably run less frequently) so it really wouldn't be much different from restoring eliminated service on the Bx55, with added service to Williamsbridge, that hasn't existed since 2004 for the Bx55. And saying that "the 41 is already about to get SBS", how does that add to the discussion at all? That might as well be saying to just not discuss this at all. I know posts like these change nothing, but it's good that you can express your viewpoint, however useless it is.

 

3. Also true, but this is just another of those arguments I find really inane. If it's the ridership, it shouldn't matter that it's not a straight shot! I know that the turn is not pleasant, there used to be a turn lane from Fordham onto Webster coming from Third that got paved up for example, so it takes the 55 a little longer, but so what? I just think ridership is what matters most. And while Webster Av is more of a straight shot, the ridiculously bad traffic light timing and Cross Bronx Expressway traffic at times ensures that it isn't that much faster than 3 Av.

 

4. Third Av has frequent service because people use the service! I'm all for improving service on Webster, but 3 Av shouldn't have to lose service because of it. You're pretty much robbing Peter to pay Paul (well, Peter has been long robbed, but you know what I mean)

 

Once upon a time, there were two weekend bus routes on 3 Av. One route got cut. Half of that route's ridership was seemingly absorbed into the second route, (page B-9) and the other half just fell into the ether. In other words, if the MTA cuts 3 Av service, ridership will really suffer, which might serve their agenda if more people flock to the Bx41 SBS but morally (well, I dunno if that's the word I want, but I can't really think of any others) isn't good for people on 3 Av. I'm also wondering if any significant number of people started farebeating as a response to the worse service, since that's nothing new to the 15 and 55, although I don't think too many people would do that and you'd have to figure out what would count as 'significant'.

 

Also, the 41 should not be considered as a means to relieve to the 15. That's pretty much how it will be, and I know I said this earlier up in the thread, but one would really think the 55 would be the go-route to help out the 15, since they're both on 3 Av together.

 

And to talk about what I said about the added service, the Bx41 SBS will see brand-new off-peak service that used to belong to the Bx55, except on Middays where there'll both be running together (Midday 55 service will probably be first to go, or at least Midday service to Williamsbridge.) And again, 3 Av has the riderbase to justify its service, so it should not be given to Webster Av instead.

 

I also think that 41 local will see less service when the 41 SBS starts up, which would be kind of like what happened to the 15 and 55 - what with the 15 getting artics and a scant increase in service to make up for the loss of the 55, except in reverse. Of course, the artics on the 15 led to increased weekday patronage and a little less on the 55, and eventually the 55's weekday headaways increased, but that's for another thread.

 

tl;dr - 3 Av gets a healthy riderbase and should be (or more accurately, should have been) more of a priority (that's a former Subway line for ya), Webster Av shouldn't be favored over it

 

Wow, it's a good thing I don't post on this site everyday, if I did I really wouldn't have a life o.o

Edited by Mysterious2train

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This entire thread is a good reason why they should have never tore down the Third Avenue El.

 

The incentive of SBS is to get people from the local routes. And the Bx41 local will run less frequently. No doubt in my mind.

 

As for everything else, you're right. The thing with Third Avenue is that it narrows in certain places and for some considerable stretches that doesnt make it ideal for SBS service.

 

Im not saying that you're wrong with your analysis (especially when comparing ridership between the two thoroughfares), but this is the (MTA). Whatever is more simplistic they will go for. Its why there will never be rail service on the North Shore again, its why there will never be four tracks on the SAS (if it gets below 63rd street), and its why the Bx41 will get SBS when me you and half of the board knows that the Bx55 (or at least a Bx15 limited) is probably the better candidate in terms of ridership.

 

As for my "its going to be SBS anyway" comment; There's two threads on the same subject. I got confused between the two. My bad.

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