Trainmaster5 Posted March 6, 2013 Share #126 Posted March 6, 2013 Just like to point out that his " Airness ", Michael Jordan isn't even in my top five of all-time hoops greats so LBJ has a loooong way to go. He's got to catch Kobe first championship-wise IMO although he's definitely the better player right now. Back in the prehistoric era of basketball I was taught if one were to start a team from scratch you always start with the big man in the middle and build around him. It doesn't always pan out that way but Wilt, Russell, and Kareem stand literally above any NBA or ABA player I've ever seen. I've never dwelled on the amount of rings a player in any of the major sports has won because that's a matter of circumstance and not skill. Robert Horry has more rings than Wilt. Joe DiMaggio has more than Ted Williams, Joe Flacco has more than Dan Marino. See my point? I'd agree that Lebron needs more rings, maybe 3 or 4 to get into the conversation with Jordan. With 2 or 3 more rings he can climb into Kobe's class in that conversation. He needs at least that many to be considered for my Top Ten. I tend to base my rankings on dominance in an era more than just the number of rings a person has won. Dennis Rodman has rings, too, and was a dominant rebounder when he felt like it and he has more rings than Lebron but Lebron is the better player. I happen to think that Tim Duncan, in his prime, was a better all around player than Lebron or Kobe although he wasn't flashy and didn't score as much. IMO, if he stays healthy, Kevin Durant has the physical talent to surpass James and/or Bryant, skill-wise although he may end up with fewer rings than either one. It's all subjective and it's up to the situations they play in. If I had to pick one of the three to reach Jordan's level I'd say Kobe never will, Lebron has a chance, and Durant will reach that plateau, barring injury. IMO he's the most talented player in the game today. Lakers-Thunder on TNT tonight. The NBA's recent past and it's future on display. BTW I place the Doctor from his ABA championships with the NY Nets to his NBA championship with the Sixers ahead of Kobe's exploits with the Lakers. Julius Erving was dominant in the ABA, so dominant that the NBA knew it had to have him. and some of his ABA counterparts. I am a basketball fan firsr and there's no doubt in my mind that the ABA teams he led to championships would have defeated my Knick championship teams because of him. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 6, 2013 Share #127 Posted March 6, 2013 It's all subjective and it's up to the situations they play in..... Which is why I don't really bother creating any "top __" lists when it comes to sports anymore... Well that, and the stans that come along of any player of which you don't have at the #1 spot...... You can add even Mike Francesa to the list of everyone on the Lebron bandwagon lol. Francesa on hisshow today (3/5/13) states "talent wise" Lebron is already among the "top 5" of all time in the NBA. The so called "Fat Boy" also says Lebron carrer already is better than Kobe, Magic and Bird. And that Kobe had either "Shaq" or Gasol, to win all of his rings while Lebron went to the Finals with no one around him. What the hell Francesa is saying now? He added that by end of his career (not my words) if he stays healthy, Lebron will be "Right there with Jordan and Wilt" as the best NBA player ever. My how in a year, Lebron has been called a disappointment to one of the best pro hoops ever. No doubt he the best hoops player in the world right now, but I agree with B35. Let him win at least 1-2 more NBA rings before he goes into the Jordan category. Await replies especially from B35, Trainmaster and others. "talent wise" is code for saying he's not on the level of the all time greats yet (as it pertains to championships+accolades+longevity), so let's find some way to exalt this guy as one of, if not the best player to ever play the game..... It's somewhat like how they classify semi-star QB's that's not on the level of the greats, as being "game managers" - no, these guys just suck & don't measure up, call it for what it is..... Anyway, so fat boy is on this recent LeBron bandwagon now too? What did LeBron do recently, what did I miss...... His career's already better than Kobe, Magic, and Bird? Wtf, based on what.... All that diet coke has truly went to his brain if he actually believes that... Then again, he's gotten quite stupid/less logical with age/since Mad Dog left..... this is the same guy (mike) that said Fenway Park has the best atmosphere/fans if you want to enjoy the live game experience..... I also remember when fat boy was on that *Lebron will never measure up with the likes of MJ & Kobe* bandwagon, back when he was on the Cavs.... How he doesn't have that "killer instinct", this that & the third.... Right now, you cannot put him on the level of any of those aforementioned guys.... I wanna see him dominate the game the way he currently is, for as long as MJ did during the 90's.... I think it's obvious that LBJ is talented & gifted to be a guy of that size that can play any position.... But I'm sorry - today's players generally aren't defensively sound (how many teams are known for having stellar D' in the league nowadays; what, Memphis & San Antonio, maybe 2 or 3 other teams tops), and with the way they make it too easy for guys to come in the lane (including walking their asses off) & do damage now, anyone with LBJ's talent should be able to score the way he does.... Anything a defender does nowadays to a penetrator in the lane gets whistled quick.... Basically what I'm saying with that is, it's way easier for scorers (especially "slashers") to score in today's game.... What makes LBJ unique is that he's a jack of all trades (so to speak) type of player.... But to the people that's already exalting him as the best ever, let's calm down a bit & wait for him to rack up accolades & rings first..... If it's inevitable, then wait for the time to gloat & wax poetic about it when it's actually said & done..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share #128 Posted March 6, 2013 Which is why I don't really bother creating any "top __" lists when it comes to sports anymore... Well that, and the stans that come along of any player of which you don't have at the #1 spot...... "talent wise" is code for saying he's not on the level of the all time greats yet (as it pertains to championships+accolades+longevity), so let's find some way to exalt this guy as one of, if not the best player to ever play the game..... It's somewhat like how they classify semi-star QB's that's not on the level of the greats, as being "game managers" - no, these guys just suck & don't measure up, call it for what it is..... Anyway, so fat boy is on this recent LeBron bandwagon now too? What did LeBron do recently, what did I miss...... His career's already better than Kobe, Magic, and Bird? Wtf, based on what.... All that diet coke has truly went to his brain if he actually believes that... Then again, he's gotten quite stupid/less logical with age/since Mad Dog left..... this is the same guy (mike) that said Fenway Park has the best atmosphere/fans if you want to enjoy the live game experience..... I also remember when fat boy was on that *Lebron will never measure up with the likes of MJ & Kobe* bandwagon, back when he was on the Cavs.... How he doesn't have that "killer instinct", this that & the third.... Right now, you cannot put him on the level of any of those aforementioned guys.... I wanna see him dominate the game the way he currently is, for as long as MJ did during the 90's.... I think it's obvious that LBJ is talented & gifted to be a guy of that size that can play any position.... But I'm sorry - today's players generally aren't defensively sound (how many teams are known for having stellar D' in the league nowadays; what, Memphis & San Antonio, maybe 2 or 3 other teams tops), and with the way they make it too easy for guys to come in the lane (including walking their asses off) & do damage now, anyone with LBJ's talent should be able to score the way he does.... Anything a defender does nowadays to a penetrator in the lane gets whistled quick.... Basically what I'm saying with that is, it's way easier for scorers (especially "slashers") to score in today's game.... What makes LBJ unique is that he's a jack of all trades (so to speak) type of player.... But to the people that's already exalting him as the best ever, let's calm down a bit & wait for him to rack up accolades & rings first..... If it's inevitable, then wait for the time to gloat & wax poetic about it when it's actually said & done..... Well said. I am sure ESPN/ABC/Disney are very happy on how LBJ has developed. Ever since about a decade ago in 2002-'03, when they got the NBA TV coverage, they being looking for that "franschie" player who can be the face and star of the NBA since Jordan left. It was also a huge gamble to put so much exposure on a then unknown high school kid from Ohio as the next great player. ESPN/ABC really got lucky as LBJ could have flopped as well with all that media attention since he was 18 years old and Drafted #1 by the Cavs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted March 7, 2013 Share #129 Posted March 7, 2013 ABC has been anointing someone as the "face" of a particular sport as far back as the 60's as far as I can recall. Back then ABC was into college football big time.. Every Saturday afternoon here in the eastern time zone you had Alabama, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, or Michigan playing somebody on ABC. The difference was that ABC promoted the coaches, not the players back then. Looking back on it I can see why it worked that way. The players were transient while the coaches were permanent parts of the experience so the coaches got the glory. Let's see..it was Bryant,, Broyles, Royal, Wilkinson, Hayes, and Schembechler who coached those respective teams, IIRC. Never mind that, come Rose Bowl time, Ohio State or Michigan usually lost to USC or UCLA. That game was on NBC anyway. At Olympic time ABC created the "up close and personal" showcase for US athletes. By the time ABC or ABC/ESPN picked up college basketball rights they went into overdrive, especially the ACC conference. First it was coach Dean Smith of UNC and now it's "Coach K" of Duke. Guess they never heard of Coach Wooden and UCLA before they picked up broadcast rights to college basketball. To sum it up I guess it's natural that ABC/ESPN promotes Lebron so much, it's in their DNA. Before I end this I haven't overlooked ABC's biggest cross promotion idea. Us oldtimers remember it well, Howard Cosell and "The Greatest of All Time". ABC used the man who needed no promotion to promote it's own sportscaster and network. It's all about the Benjamins. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share #130 Posted March 16, 2013 Now Mr. James and the Heat are on this 20-game plus winning streak (as of this writing) Now Sportscenter has sent crew of thousands (woops meaning 2 reporters) to cover the "superteam." ESPN is covering this like crazy but has not gotten the mainstream exposure (if they get to 25 wins in a row and closer to the lakers it will change)it should. The record is of course the 1971-'72 Lakers of 33 in a row. In '96, when the Bulls broke the NBA record for most regular season wins, it got huge media attention i.e cover of Time Magazine, extensive coverage on ESPN, CNN, etc. Keep in mind boys/girls lol n 1996, the internet was in it's early stages and not a huge factor on the world like now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 17, 2013 Share #131 Posted March 17, 2013 It wouldn't be 20 if the Knicks didn't blow that 1st half lead... And cut the streak at 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share #132 Posted March 17, 2013 It wouldn't be 20 if the Knicks didn't blow that 1st half lead... And cut the streak at 13. Make it 22 in a row for the superteam. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/heat-rapts-22nd-straight-win-tie-second-longest-streak-article-1.1291257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 17, 2013 Share #133 Posted March 17, 2013 Make it 22 in a row for the superteam. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/heat-rapts-22nd-straight-win-tie-second-longest-streak-article-1.1291257 Well this is what the league wants & now they're getting it. It wouldn't be 20 if the Knicks didn't blow that 1st half lead... And cut the streak at 13. The knicks better worry about a streak of their own - This losing streak of getting spanked the way they've been the past couple games.... No Melo/Chandler or not, these games haven't been close lately... That's what happens when you sign geriatric semistars like Thomas, Camby, and Martin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 18, 2013 Share #134 Posted March 18, 2013 Ironically though melo is the one you'd think would be ok for the most part. Camby, was expected to miss games and I think amare is likely done. How many surgeries to the same knee can he recover from? How many years left on the contract? They blew it wasting the amnesty clause on billups and why did they approve his contract extension just to use the clause on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted March 18, 2013 Share #135 Posted March 18, 2013 They've been competitive in some of the games...in the first half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted March 18, 2013 Share #136 Posted March 18, 2013 I don't watch basketball, but this I watched. Too funny not to post: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 18, 2013 Share #137 Posted March 18, 2013 They've been competitive in some of the games...in the first halfyup. They can go toe to toe in the first half, but they lose their momentum at the end. By then it is too late to get back in the game. I guess it was expecting too much after that hot start and reality is crashing hard. On the flip side, I am honestly surprised the nets are just 1 game back behind the Knicks. So I'm more surprised the nets didn't fall out as bad. Either way I don't think the Knicks were going to get far in the playoffs. Maybe at best win a 1st round match, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share #138 Posted March 19, 2013 Make it 22 in a row for the superteam. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/heat-rapts-22nd-straight-win-tie-second-longest-streak-article-1.1291257 It's now @ 23 for the superteam. Lebron scores game winning shot in close of game Monday (3/18/13) vs Celtics. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-03-18/heat-celtics-result-score-lebron-james-winning-streak-23-lakers-71-72?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl11%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D285623 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted March 28, 2013 Share #139 Posted March 28, 2013 The streak is over! Nice try by LBJ and the superteam but Jerry West/Wilt Chamberlain's 1972 Lakers streak is safe. Bulls beat Miami to end at 27. And I am sure the execs at ESPN and David Stern are sad tonight. They might be sad at ESPN and the NBA office but that was one of the most exciting games I've seen in a while. Both teams played well in an atmosphere that approached a playoff type frenzy. Well played by both teams even though the Bulls were missing some key players. Perhaps ESPN can let go of Lebron's jock now and stop this overbearing hype. I'm not blaming Lebron for this but perhaps the league and the networks will realize that basketball is a team game and not an individual sport like tennis or golf. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 28, 2013 Share #140 Posted March 28, 2013 Lol.... Good for them MF-ers... walkin off like some cry baby, sore ass losers... How the world you let Deng light you up anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted March 30, 2013 Share #141 Posted March 30, 2013 My friend as you said earlier in this thread Disney w/ ESPN/ABC and going way back to the old ABC sports days. they been promoting "star players and coaches" since way back to the 1960's. Regarding Team LBJ the next 'streak' would be to match the 1983 Moses Malone/Dr Sixers who (since current NBA playoff format started in the early 1970's)with only losing post season game for best playoff season ever. I remember it well Shortline Bus. After the Sixers acquired the Doctor they knocked on the NBA championship door yet always came away empty. Moses Malone arrived on the Philly scene and led them to the promised land. When playoff time came around they asked Moses for a prediction. I'll never forget when he said "'Fo, 'fo, and 'fo". He was never the talkative, press loving type but those three short "words" was his way of saying that the Sixers would sweep their way to the championship that year, four,four and four. Ultimately he was off, by one game, as the Sixers swept the Knicks, beat the Bucks in 5, and swept the Lakers in the finals. Lebron went from high school to the pros like Moses did before him. It would be interesting to see if LBJ can match Malone's 1983 feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted April 10, 2013 Share #142 Posted April 10, 2013 As this NBA regular season winds down the Knicks and Nets are among those teams jockeying for better playoff position. The Knicks are Atlantic Division champs for the first time in almost 20 years while the Nets are holding their own in the playoff race. The Miami Heat are sitting back watching the other teams sweat it out for a chance to take their crown and the Heat don't look worried. Out west the Spurs, Thunder, Nuggets, Clippers, and Grizzlies hold the top spots. I'm laughing at the Lakers trying to fight for the last spot out west with the Utah team. How the mighty have fallen. Maybe the league office will help Kobe and crew out. Kobe "guaranteed" the Lakers would make the playoffs IIRC. Maybe the NBA heard him? We all know the NBA needs the Lakers in the playoffs even if it's only for a round or two. More viewers= more $$$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 10, 2013 Share #143 Posted April 10, 2013 I would never imagine I'd see the day the only la team in the playoffs would be the clippers instead of the lakers. Congrats to the Knicks, finally an Atlantic conference crown been so long since the team was this good. I am happy for them and the fans that suffered in the 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 10, 2013 Share #144 Posted April 10, 2013 Been saying this for a minute now... The Knicks are a MUCH better team without A'mare Stoudemire. As far as their upcoming playoff run is concerned, Let's see how long 'Melo can keep this level of play up.... It's like the basket is a mile wide to him; can't miss a shot... lol.... I would actually watch a clippers/knicks final... that would sell tickets & bring ppl. to the (tv) sets, as both teams are exciting to watch.... Fat chance of such a finals matchup happening though..... As for the Lakers, what good will it do for them "limping" into the playoffs? The Jazz have a higher upside.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 10, 2013 Share #145 Posted April 10, 2013 Well, I wonder, would fans have a riot if the Clippers should win it all? I don't remember if they had a riot when the NHL kings won. For the Knicks, I don't think Amare was that bad. Ideally the thinking was when healthy, and solo with a supporting cast, that was a decent team. I mean how well has Denver done in the same time as the Knicks since the trade? I still think they gave up too much for Melo, but the team as is now, I'm not complaining. Lol, also where are the 'keep Lin' fans? The team seems to be doing very well without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 10, 2013 Share #146 Posted April 10, 2013 Well, I wonder, would fans have a riot if the Clippers should win it all? I don't remember if they had a riot when the NHL kings won. For the Knicks, I don't think Amare was that bad. Ideally the thinking was when healthy, and solo with a supporting cast, that was a decent team. I mean how well has Denver done in the same time as the Knicks since the trade? I still think they gave up too much for Melo, but the team as is now, I'm not complaining. Lol, also where are the 'keep Lin' fans? The team seems to be doing very well without him. I was listening to fat boy yesterday, and I agree with him 100% when it comes to Amare...... It's not a knock on the guy as to why the Knicks are better without him (I didn't know the knicks are 30-5 without him though.... When Francesa blurted out that stat, I said "Damn").... The problem is that Amare's game & Melo's game don't mesh; it clashes badly... You watch the both of them when they're on the floor at the same time & the one thing that's conspicuous as all get out, is that they're both in each other's way.... Amare opened the door for all these other players (which included Carmelo) to wanna come to the Knicks... There was a point & time when no (other star) player wanted to come here b/c quite frankly, the Knicks sucked..... Looking at it in a roundabout way, the franchise used Amare's "star power/status" to get other players here - and the fact that he has chronic knee problems or w/e has made it all too apparent now.... As cold as it sounds, he's yesterday's news..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 10, 2013 Share #147 Posted April 10, 2013 I totally agree that Melo and Amare should not be playing at the same time. Ideally they should've had them splitting time so that one gets some rest or something like that. Ironically with his knees, looks like Amare will be a bench player, till he's gone, and better suited to give Melo a few moments of rest (assuming they do that). I still smh at why the Knicks chose to exercise Billups' option only to use the amnesty clause on him instead of saving it on Amare. It was a total waste of a 'free pass'. With how Melo is carrying this team and all the vets, I'm just glad Melo isn't another Starberry. An overpaid, 1 dimensional, selfish player. So looking back now, it is a good thing they got Melo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 13, 2013 Share #148 Posted April 13, 2013 Well, stick a fork in Kobe.... Out for the rest of the season; torn Achilles..... Read Here I was watching some of that game (caught the early part of the 4th qtr) before I ended up dozing off.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 18, 2013 Share #149 Posted April 18, 2013 2013 NBA playoffs.... Western conf. Thunder/Rockets Spurs/Lakers Nuggets/Warriors Clippers/Grizzlies Eastern conf. Heat/Bucks Knicks/Celtics Pacers/Hawks Nets/Bulls Should I even bother making picks.... Screw it..... Thunder in 5, Spurs in 5, Nuggets in 6, Grizzlies in 5 Heat, brooms...., Knicks in 7, Pacers, brooms...., Bulls in 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 18, 2013 Share #150 Posted April 18, 2013 Knicks in 7? I'm a little surprised. I mean granted the big guys are still injured, but I think Boston is pretty depleted as well. I would think at most 5 or 6. Bulls, I still worry about them the most. I kinda expect they might win that in 5 or 6 games as well. I still find it surprising the Nets are 4th. What a difference a year made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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