Grand Concourse Posted November 12, 2011 Share #26 Posted November 12, 2011 Since the SIRT doesn't have the sharp curves like on the subway, crossing b/w cars is sort of like crossing b/w the 51' IRT and 60' B div cars. Just hang on to something to brace yourself and you should be ok. My very first SIRT trip, I crossed b/w cars and it wasn't any different than any other cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted November 12, 2011 Share #27 Posted November 12, 2011 I'm genuinely curious here; how much time do the R46s actually have left on them? I mean, it would be a significant waste of money to retrofit a class of cars that won't last more than a few years and has to be replaced by other cars, either brand new or refurbished. Now I get that the agency has money problems and probably can't afford new cars for S.I., but wouldn't it make much more sense to rehab the R68(a)s and send them over there. Those ones have at least until the mid 2020s before they reach their expected lifespan, not the mid to late 2010s like the R46s are expected to have right now. If the R46s can be expected to be pounding the rails until around 2020, then that's all good, but if they can't, then the really should rethink their retrofit strategy. I mean, look at how it's taking to get the R179 order off the ground. I'm hoping this won't be the case when the option order or the base order for the R211s comes up, but given the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised either way. The point is that there needs to be contingencies for the unexpected and unavoidable occurrences. I'm sure we don't want to have this same discussion five or so years later where SIR needs new cars and there isn't any order for them because of such and such. Just my inquisitive nature striking (as well as me trying to find the logic in this idea) again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share #28 Posted November 12, 2011 I'm genuinely curious here; how much time do the R46s actually have left on them? I mean, it would be a significant waste of money to retrofit a class of cars that won't last more than a few years and has to be replaced by other cars, either brand new or refurbished. Now I get that the agency has money problems and probably can't afford new cars for S.I., but wouldn't it make much more sense to rehab the R68(a)s and send them over there. Those ones have at least until the mid 2020s before they reach their expected lifespan, not the mid to late 2010s like the R46s are expected to have right now. If the R46s can be expected to be pounding the rails until around 2020, then that's all good, but if they can't, then the really should rethink their retrofit strategy. I mean, look at how it's taking to get the R179 order off the ground. I'm hoping this won't be the case when the option order or the base order for the R211s comes up, but given the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised either way. The point is that there needs to be contingencies for the unexpected and unavoidable occurrences. I'm sure we don't want to have this same discussion five or so years later where SIR needs new cars and there isn't any order for them because of such and such. Just my inquisitive nature striking (as well as me trying to find the logic in this idea) again. The SIR 46's will be around until the mid to late 20's and the 68's will be around longer than that. All the 44's will be replaced and the 46's will run alongside the new cars once they begin to arrive in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted November 12, 2011 Share #29 Posted November 12, 2011 It's a way to save money. This way the TA can get extra life out of the 46, and start getting rid of some 44's without spending hundreds of millions on all new cars. Yeah but isn't that waste of money then buying new cars? Parts are expensive compared to just having a complete set. Id rather see new cars on the SIRTOA then older cars. From rumors i heard, people in SI dont want the R46s, rather something newer, such as the R68 and above. (Mind you just a rumor, not official folks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share #30 Posted November 12, 2011 Yeah but isn't that waste of money then buying new cars? Parts are expensive compared to just having a complete set. Id rather see new cars on the SIRTOA then older cars. From rumors i heard, people in SI dont want the R46s, rather something newer, such as the R68 and above. (Mind you just a rumor, not official folks) No, that's not a waste of money. The 46's are good cars and a billion dollars cheaper to just maintain them well and extend the life out of them. I think everyone would rather see new cars, but that's just not likely to happen any time soon. Even if SI residents don't want the 46's, it something they are just going to have to deal with right now. All the 32's and 44's have to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted November 13, 2011 Share #31 Posted November 13, 2011 I'm genuinely curious here; how much time do the R46s actually have left on them? I mean, it would be a significant waste of money to retrofit a class of cars that won't last more than a few years and has to be replaced by other cars, either brand new or refurbished. Now I get that the agency has money problems and probably can't afford new cars for S.I., but wouldn't it make much more sense to rehab the R68(a)s and send them over there. Those ones have at least until the mid 2020s before they reach their expected lifespan, not the mid to late 2010s like the R46s are expected to have right now. If the R46s can be expected to be pounding the rails until around 2020, then that's all good, but if they can't, then the really should rethink their retrofit strategy. I mean, look at how it's taking to get the R179 order off the ground. I'm hoping this won't be the case when the option order or the base order for the R211s comes up, but given the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised either way. The point is that there needs to be contingencies for the unexpected and unavoidable occurrences. I'm sure we don't want to have this same discussion five or so years later where SIR needs new cars and there isn't any order for them because of such and such. Just my inquisitive nature striking (as well as me trying to find the logic in this idea) again. That is a very good point. In the past I had thought that sending R68/as there would be a better idea as they are younger and could be used as individual cars [assuming the 4-car sets can still be used as individuals]. Given the way service at night requires 2-car trains, I don't see 60' car trains as being efficient compared to the 75' car trains. I like the R46s, but I can't see them being a viable alternative. Anything less than 5 years of service there is a total waste. THey would be better off just finishing their useful lives on the lines. THe only reason I would think they would send SI the R46s is because SI is 'less taxing' [correct me if wrong: they basically operate around the ferry service or close to it] on those cars and NYC needs cars like the R68s around with the delay in the order of new trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted November 16, 2011 Share #32 Posted November 16, 2011 No, that's not a waste of money. The 46's are good cars and a billion dollars cheaper to just maintain them well and extend the life out of them. I think everyone would rather see new cars, but that's just not likely to happen any time soon. Even if SI residents don't want the 46's, it something they are just going to have to deal with right now. All the 32's and 44's have to be replaced. yeah you can say that when one drops dead everyday on the , they want to do all this crap and they are short of equipment, But those R44's do gotta go, The MTA don't what the hell they are doing and yes those R46's are the next R32's of subway cars they are built to last but they should be rebuilt instead of converted, I bet money those Pollitics in SI are gonna fight it, Look how they got the NG's and the 30 new novas with 60 more test buses on the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted November 17, 2011 Share #33 Posted November 17, 2011 To be fair: SI has gotten 2nd hand stuff mainly because they couldn't be trusted with new stuff in the past. But now since they started improving and expanding, they've gotten a bit better. The split b/w Brooklyn, Queens, SI is a very good way of testing each bus type. That said, I am on the fence about R46s to SI. I still think R68s would make more sense. But as I said before: the only reason I'd see R46s to SI is because SIRT is less 'demanding' compared to the line. And if the MTA is still deep in red ink, I would think they would need the R68s for the subway rather than the SIRT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8thAveExpress Posted November 25, 2011 Share #34 Posted November 25, 2011 Yeah but isn't that waste of money then buying new cars? Parts are expensive compared to just having a complete set. Id rather see new cars on the SIRTOA then older cars. From rumors i heard, people in SI dont want the R46s, rather something newer, such as the R68 and above. (Mind you just a rumor, not official folks) I'm sorry, but until SI railers pay for their transit (I don't mean the 1 stop that charges), they shouldn't be picky and ask for the R68a, instead of the R46 They're lucky we're not throwing R32s at them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted November 25, 2011 Share #35 Posted November 25, 2011 I'm sorry, but until SI railers pay for their transit (I don't mean the 1 stop that charges), they shouldn't be picky and ask for the R68a, instead of the R46 They're lucky we're not throwing R32s at them... LOL well, railfans would have a block party if that happened =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWM Posted November 25, 2011 Share #36 Posted November 25, 2011 I'm sorry, but until SI railers pay for their transit (I don't mean the 1 stop that charges), they shouldn't be picky and ask for the R68a, instead of the R46 They're lucky we're not throwing R32s at them... chucks R32 at wild Staten Island! Critical Hit! Staten island is pissed! Staten Island gets picky and wants R68s! gives Wild Staten Island R46s and flees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted November 25, 2011 Share #37 Posted November 25, 2011 I'm sorry, but until SI railers pay for their transit (I don't mean the 1 stop that charges), they shouldn't be picky and ask for the R68a, instead of the R46 They're lucky we're not throwing R32s at them... Tompkinsville station charges the fare too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted December 18, 2011 Share #38 Posted December 18, 2011 I don't know if this has been answered elsewhere, but how many cars are they expected to retrofit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted December 25, 2011 Share #39 Posted December 25, 2011 I don't know if this has been answered elsewhere, but how many cars are they expected to retrofit? Plans are tentative at best, but definitely not more than 64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share #40 Posted February 29, 2012 Contract award delayed, and now scheduled for January 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 29, 2012 Share #41 Posted February 29, 2012 The more they delay, the better off they would be in sending the R68s there. I dunno haw much sense it would make to send the R46s there if they aren't going to be around for 10~ years. Why go thru all that work just to replace them in a few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queens Surface Posted March 1, 2012 Share #42 Posted March 1, 2012 The more they delay, the better off they would be in sending the R68s there. I dunno haw much sense it would make to send the R46s there if they aren't going to be around for 10~ years. Why go thru all that work just to replace them in a few years? What's going to end up happening is just that new cars are going to end up being ordered, since the conversion for the R46s is being "delayed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted March 1, 2012 Share #43 Posted March 1, 2012 I thought the MTA pushed back to January 2013, I read that on sub chat by a reliable source, but if thats the case the is stupid for wasting money on this, this money could be used for an option order of the R179's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 1, 2012 Share #44 Posted March 1, 2012 What's going to end up happening is just that new cars are going to end up being ordered, since the conversion for the R46s is being "delayed". Otoh, the MTA could/should send the R68s to SI and put the new trains on lines like the or . imo* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbirdfan Posted March 1, 2012 Share #45 Posted March 1, 2012 Those R46's are good cars, but SIR needs new cars. Like most people on here, i think the should take the R68's off of the and , then send them over to SIR, and send the R179's over to the and . Then whenever the R211's arrive, they should go to the and and retire the R46's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 1, 2012 Share #46 Posted March 1, 2012 SIRT needs 64 cars, so you can take them all off from either CIY or the , but otherwise, exactly: put the new trains on the subway lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted March 1, 2012 Share #47 Posted March 1, 2012 Like I said before, I also believe the R68(a)s should be rehabbed and sent over to Staten Island instead of the R46s. Sure, the latter cars are in good shape now, but how will they fare come ten years from now? Given the lengthy delays concerning the R179 order, I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of a speedy R211 order. Wouldn't it make much more sense to give the SIR cars we know should last well into the next decade and not ones we hope will? Just dropping my two cents in. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan05979 Posted March 2, 2012 Share #48 Posted March 2, 2012 The 68 is a forever. I guarantee they wont go to S.I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 2, 2012 Share #49 Posted March 2, 2012 Nothing's set in stone, plus if not the , then there's CIY's batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share #50 Posted April 11, 2012 The more they delay, the better off they would be in sending the R68s there. I dunno haw much sense it would make to send the R46s there if they aren't going to be around for 10~ years. Why go thru all that work just to replace them in a few years? The reason the retrofit was delayed, was because the R179 order was delayed. Not only that, but I dont think the MTA has any plans to retire the SIR R46's in the next 10 years, even though they are a temorary solution to replace all the R44's. I thought the MTA pushed back to January 2013, I read that on sub chat by a reliable source, but if thats the case the is stupid for wasting money on this, this money could be used for an option order of the R179's It is pushed back to January 2013, and the actuall retrofit would likely begin in February. The money used to complete this task, which MTA estimates to be around $20 Million, is hundreds of millions less that what it costs to procure more brand new R179's, which are needed on a few other lines before Staten Island. Like I said before, I also believe the R68(a)s should be rehabbed and sent over to Staten Island instead of the R46s. Sure, the latter cars are in good shape now, but how will they fare come ten years from now? Given the lengthy delays concerning the R179 order, I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of a speedy R211 order. Wouldn't it make much more sense to give the SIR cars we know should last well into the next decade and not ones we hope will? Just dropping my two cents in. That's all. I'm being told there is a method to this madness, and that the TA does not expect to retire the 46's anytime soon. Because the R179 order has been delayed so many times, the TA decided they would not be sending any to SI, and would rather wait until the R211's come up for procurement in 2014/15. I will also post this bit of information in the R179 thread, that as of today, word on the street is some 179's will go to Pitkin yard to displace 46's that will head over to SI. Don't know why, but thats the word. I will try to confirm something soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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