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Via Garibaldi 8

How to alleviate overcrowding on the Lex lines with enhanced bus service

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Obviously the SAS will help alleviate crowding on the (4)(5)(6) lines, but that won't be ready for several years and only a segment will be done. I think a good idea could be to make the M101, M102 and M103 more attractive by finding ways to alleviate congestion along Lexington Ave esp. If it were me I would consider giving the M101SBS service and try to find ways to make the M102 and M103 more reliable. Of course bus service can only complement subway service, but imagine if you could move more commuters from the Lexington Ave subway line over to the bus line. That could certainly help things a little for the time being since the Lex Ave subway is pretty much at capacity. Thoughts?

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Obviously the SAS will help alleviate crowding on the (4)(5)(6) lines, but that won't be ready for several years and only a segment will be done. I think a good idea could be to make the M101, M102 and M103 more attractive by finding ways to alleviate congestion along Lexington Ave esp. If it were me I would consider giving the M101SBS service and try to find ways to make the M102 and M103 more reliable. Of course bus service can only complement subway service, but imagine if you could move more commuters from the Lexington Ave subway line over to the bus line. That could certainly help things a little for the time being since the Lex Ave subway is pretty much at capacity. Thoughts?

 

M101SBS people would just laugh and stuff their way onto the (4) and (5) before using a bus. That would only benefit old people and a few tourists. Unless you make some M101 SBS trips follow M98's route to GWB express. M103/102 & 101 will NEVER be more attractive than the (4)(5) NYC folk have a strong subway culture. SBS on a bus that duplicates the subway is unnecessary.

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Obviously the SAS will help alleviate crowding on the (4)(5)(6) lines, but that won't be ready for several years and only a segment will be done. I think a good idea could be to make the M101, M102 and M103 more attractive by finding ways to alleviate congestion along Lexington Ave esp. If it were me I would consider giving the M101SBS service and try to find ways to make the M102 and M103 more reliable. Of course bus service can only complement subway service, but imagine if you could move more commuters from the Lexington Ave subway line over to the bus line. That could certainly help things a little for the time being since the Lex Ave subway is pretty much at capacity. Thoughts?

 

I'm sure that would be possible. However at the moment, it would be in the best interest to increase the service levels on the 101, 2, 3

 

 

M101SBS people would just laugh and stuff their way onto the (4) and (5) before using a bus. That would only benefit old people and a few tourists. Unless you make some M101 SBS trips follow M98's route to GWB express. M103/102 & 101 will NEVER be more attractive than the (4)(5) NYC folk have a strong subway culture. SBS on a bus that duplicates the subway is unnecessary.

 

That type of thinking is the one that limits progress, and ultimately screws the passenger at the end.

Edited by Turbo19
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I actually have to agree with this 100%. I think some form of faster bus service on Lex could be implemented, however the traffic would be an issue, so it would need to be super limited and only make (4) and (5) stops.

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Yeah, really limited. And, that's the problem... It may not have enough ridership stopping at Grand Central, 59th, 86th and 125th.

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Sorry to disagree with VG8. I think QJ is dead on in stating most riders prefer the subway than the bus. Plus CBTC is coming supposedly by end of this decade at the latest to the Lex line. Maybe a mini form of SBS such as installing MVM's at busy stops such as 14, 23rd, 42nd and 86 Sts. along with better enforcement of bus lanes would help.

 

Instead a full SBS is more needed on 5th/Madison lines which has 4 bus routes serving most of that coordior..

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Yeah, 5th/Madison doesn't have a subway and never will, an M1SBS is more needed there...

 

If it was to go SBS:

The M1 should be SBS.

The M2 should become local.

The M3 should be the new full time LTD.

All other routes would have no changes.

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I'm sure that would be possible. However at the moment, it would be in the best interest to increase the service levels on the 101, 2, 3

 

 

I think the service levels are decent. Bunching is the problem on the line and a great deal of it comes from Lexington Avenue, w/double parking and so on.

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Yeah, 5th/Madison doesn't have a subway and never will, an M1SBS is more needed there...

 

If it was to go SBS:

The M1 should be SBS.

The M2 should become local.

The M3 should be the new full time LTD.

All other routes would have no changes.

 

 

Why make the M2 a Local Threxx.? it has (I think)the highest usage of the 5th/Madison lines. This is what the (MTA) should do.

 

M2 SBS 7 days a week.

"M1" Limited all day weekdays

"M3" and "M4" (Limited peak hour Limited service weekdays) remain the same.

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Sorry to disagree with VG8. I think QJ is dead on in stating most riders prefer the subway than the bus. Plus CBTC is coming supposedly by end of this decade at the latest to the Lex line. Maybe a mini form of SBS such as installing MVM's at busy stops such as 14, 23rd, 42nd and 86 Sts. along with better enforcement of bus lanes would help.

 

Instead a full SBS is more needed on 5th/Madison lines which has 4 bus routes serving most of that coordior..

 

Yeah, 5th/Madison doesn't have a subway and never will, an M1SBS is more needed there...

 

If it was to go SBS:

The M1 should be SBS.

The M2 should become local.

The M3 should be the new full time LTD.

All other routes would have no changes.

 

They only reason they prefer the subway is because they see it as being quicker. If the bus were made to be quicker and more reliable, more folks would use it, especially because they wouldn't have to schlepp downstairs. The stairs in Grand Central for example are a killer, not to mention the time it takes to get out of the station.

 

As for 5th Avenue, I would tend to disagree with you guys and I'll state why. I've been working on 5th Avenue for quite a while even before I started working in Midtown and probably will still be around the area here and there when I'm around since we've moved to a new space. When I worked in Chelsea down by 5th & 18th, back then limited stop service was much more frequent. You could wait a good 30 minutes before you would get a local bus. Meanwhile limited stop buses (M5s and M2s) would pass like crazy. Now the reverse is happening. I don't know if folks complained or what, but local bus service along 5th Avenue is much more reliable and frequent while limited stop service has deteriorated significantly. M2s used to run every 10 - 12 minutes. They have been cut back to every 15 minutes and both the M2 and M5 are unreliable and bunch terribly. Between the two of them you can wait easily almost 30 minutes before you get one limited stop bus.

 

Furthermore, the local buses can sometimes stay right with the limited stop buses even with their frequent stops (I know this because I've actually stopped using the M2 since it doesn't save me any time) so unless you make the M2 a SBS bus with fewer stops, I would say that SBS service may not make that much of a difference. The one thing that the (MTA) must've noticed is that you have more folks in need of local bus service along 5th Avenue and as a result, local bus service has been "beefed up" along the corridor if you will when you compare it to limited stop service, or at least it feels that way because even local bus frequency doesn't seem to be that great currently. Keep in mind that you already have some M1s and M4s that run limited stop service during rush hour along 5th Avenue, so I think if you were to introduce SBS service to 5th Avenue (which I would agree that something is needed), then you should also look to streamline the M1, M3, M4 and M5 as well along with the Q32 where possible to allow them all to benefit from the M2 being a SBS route.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Why not make the M98 an all weekday service and make it go to 34 street, as an alternative to the M101.

 

Why would it only go to 34th street?

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Why not make the M98 an all weekday service and make it go to 34 street, as an alternative to the M101.

 

 

The M98 wont do much at all, the portion in which the commute is supposedly faster is north of 125st (If traffic is clear on the Harlem River Drive which normally is not especially in the PM). The congested area is south of 125st on Lexington Ave so the M98 is just duplicating the M101 Limited except it is shorter

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Really..... I thought that was the purpose of the M15SBS and the construction of the Second Avenue Subway. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited by NovaCSW8030

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I think the M103 would the best candidate for SBS (making stops at 125th, 96th, 86th, 59th, 42nd etc...) being that it terminates on 125th and won't have to deal with that crosstown nightmare.

Edited by youngblaze
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Really..... I thought that was purpose of the M15SBS and the construction of Second Avenue Subway. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

To a degree yes... SAS won't be ready for some years and the M15SBS already does its part and the Lex. ave lines are still being hammered. Having speedier bus service right along Lex and 3rd Avenues could attract some subways riders from the (4)(5)(6) to alleviate some of the crowding. Besides unless you're heading that way 2nd Avenue can be out of the way IMO.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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To do a degree yes... SAS won't be ready for some years and the M15SBS already does its part and the Lex. ave lines are still being hammered. Having speedier bus service right along Lex and 3rd Avenues could attract some subways riders from the (4)(5)(6) to alleviate some of the crowding. Besides unless you're heading that way 2nd Avenue can be out of the way IMO.

 

 

hmph.... understood.

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The M1 is the straight trunk route, though, and Madison Avenue really could use SBS and at least one artic route...

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Why make the M2 a Local Threxx.? it has (I think)the highest usage of the 5th/Madison lines. This is what the (MTA) should do.

 

M2 SBS 7 days a week.

"M1" Limited all day weekdays

"M3" and "M4" (Limited peak hour Limited service weekdays) remain the same.

 

 

The M4 has the highest weekday ridership, the M2 lost that title a few years back.

 

Here's an amended version:

M1: SBS.

M2 & M4: LTD full time weekdays, with LCL service.

M3: Full time LTD

All other routes, no change.

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The M4 has the highest weekday ridership, the M2 lost that title a few years back.

 

Here's an amended version:

M1: SBS.

M2 & M4: LTD full time weekdays, with LCL service.

M3: Full time LTD

All other routes, no change.

 

Sorry but I just disagree with that set up. That is way too much limited stop service for starters and you'd have folks at the local stops pissed because those stops are well used and you would be reducing their service options. I know my boss for example would throw a fit. She loves having 4 bus options to her along 5th & Madison Avenues there on the Upper East Side during the week.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Why make the M2 a Local Threxx.? it has (I think)the highest usage of the 5th/Madison lines. This is what the (MTA) should do.

 

M2 SBS 7 days a week.

"M1" Limited all day weekdays

"M3" and "M4" (Limited peak hour Limited service weekdays) remain the same.

 

 

The M2 has nowhere near enough ridership to justify artic SBS bus, and if it were just 40-foot SBSes like the S79, might as well keep in Limited. That'd make very little sense to run the M1 Limited all day, it's a complete duplicate of the M2 from 110th down...only difference is that it's a local now. With that new idea, you're saying during rush hour the M1, M2, M4, and M5 would all run Limited? You gotta have some local service, and the current setup isn't all that bad.

 

The M4 has the highest weekday ridership, the M2 lost that title a few years back.

 

Here's an amended version:

M1: SBS.

M2 & M4: LTD full time weekdays, with LCL service.

M3: Full time LTD

All other routes, no change.

 

 

Too much Limited/SBS service, way too much! By that standard the only local bus service on 5th from 34th to 8th would be the occasional non-Limited M2, with the M1, most M2s, and all M3s running express...not a good plan, lot of people depend on those locals!

 

As somebody who takes the M2 every day and is around those lines 7 days a week for various reasons, I can tell you the only thing that's needed is more Limited service. That's it! Just up the frequency of the M2 and leave everything else the way it is, cause it's not all that bad a system. I stil think the M1 should run via Park/Broadway, but that's not a popular opinion these days.

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Well, at the very least, the M2 should swap with the M4 for the spot as full time LTD... or at least have more LTD service, that route is just too long...

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The M2 has nowhere near enough ridership to justify artic SBS bus, and if it were just 40-foot SBSes like the S79, might as well keep in Limited. That'd make very little sense to run the M1 Limited all day, it's a complete duplicate of the M2 from 110th down...only difference is that it's a local now. With that new idea, you're saying during rush hour the M1, M2, M4, and M5 would all run Limited? You gotta have some local service, and the current setup isn't all that bad.

 

 

 

Too much Limited/SBS service, way too much! By that standard the only local bus service on 5th from 34th to 8th would be the occasional non-Limited M2, with the M1, most M2s, and all M3s running express...not a good plan, lot of people depend on those locals!

 

As somebody who takes the M2 every day and is around those lines 7 days a week for various reasons, I can tell you the only thing that's needed is more Limited service. That's it! Just up the frequency of the M2 and leave everything else the way it is, cause it's not all that bad a system. I stil think the M1 should run via Park/Broadway, but that's not a popular opinion these days.

 

 

Yeah the current set up isn't that bad. The M2 needs more service and they need to find out where in the hell the buses are because they seem to be MIA the most out of all of them are they're supposed to be limited, which baffles me, but as you said the current set up works fine because the M1 and M3 usually work with each other and come together to help out and then the M2 comes in and picks up at the big stops. The problem currently is that there are too few M2s and I think service was cut back because more folks have started using the local stop buses because you just don't save much if any time using the M2 now as opposed to in the past.

 

As for the M1 running down Park again I would LOVE that set up, especially since it would mean having direct service back to Union Square again.

 

 

Well, at the very least, the M2 should swap with the M4 for the spot as full time LTD... or at least have more LTD service, that route is just too long...

 

I've actually used the M4 from Midtown to the Cloisters and it really isn't that bad believe it or not. Remember you have LTD M4 service during the rush.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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^That isn't enough. The route has the highest weekday ridership, it needs more LTD service..

 

As somebody who takes the M2 every day and is around those lines 7 days a week for various reasons, I can tell you the only thing that's needed is more Limited service. That's it! Just up the frequency of the M2 and leave everything else the way it is, cause it's not all that bad a system. I stil think the M1 should run via Park/Broadway, but that's not a popular opinion these days.

 

 

That Park/Broadway setup should be it's own route at this point, the M1 gets good ridership on 5th/Madison.

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