How to alleviate overcrowding on the Lex lines with enhanced bus service

[qjtransitmaster]

The point is, you can only jam so many trains in the same tunnel and expect it to function normally as opposed to basically a train 'bumper to bumper'. You need something above to handle the excess. So to a degree, he has a point. No one is saying a bus is a replacement for anything. The bus would be a compliment to provide some additional capacity for the riders heading in the same direction. Basically take the bus if you are going a short distance and the subways for longer distances. Plus there's no elevators on some of the Lexington av stops, so another reason why a bus would be more useful.

 

SBS does not take away that much money from a potential service expansion anywhere as the main expenses would be the MVMs, repainted lanes and traffic cameras. So why are you getting all riled up? It's not that far fetched.

 

True but SBS is overkill for corridors served by subways. Just bus lanes are sufficient.

[East New York]

Sorry to disagree with VG8. I think QJ is dead on in stating most riders prefer the subway than the bus. Plus CBTC is coming supposedly by end of this decade at the latest to the Lex line. Maybe a mini form of SBS such as installing MVM's at busy stops such as 14, 23rd, 42nd and 86 Sts. along with better enforcement of bus lanes would help.

 

Instead a full SBS is more needed on 5th/Madison lines which has 4 bus routes serving most of that coordior..

 

 

How can you and qj be so sure the ridership wouldn't warrant an SBS???? I ride the Lex Av buses frequently, and you do know that it's the second heaviest used corridor in the city right??? For example, the M15SBS has attracted many riders that would otherwise have never caught the M15 is there was no SBS. 5/Mad routes see about 75,000 passengers per weekday, and 3/Lex gets about 58,196.

 

I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but the two of you are making definitive statements when you really have no place to say that people wont ride a bus that isn't in existence.... To date, ridership has increases on every SBS route introduced. What would be different here?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

How can you and qj be so sure the ridership wouldn't warrant an SBS???? I ride the Lex Av buses frequently, and you do know that it's the second heaviest used corridor in the city right??? For example, the M15SBS has attracted many riders that would otherwise have never caught the M15 is there was no SBS. 5/Mad routes see about 75,000 passengers per weekday, and 3/Lex gets about 58,196.

 

I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but the two of you are making definitive statements when you really have no place to say that people wont ride a bus that isn't in existence.... To date, ridership has increases on every SBS route introduced. What would be different here?

 

lol... I don't think people realize how heavily used the M101, M102 and M103 are used especially when you consider that you have the subway there in some areas as well right below it. I use the M101 a lot and I think SBS would certainly help with the bunching on the line.

[checkmatechamp13]

How can you and qj be so sure the ridership wouldn't warrant an SBS???? I ride the Lex Av buses frequently, and you do know that it's the second heaviest used corridor in the city right??? For example, the M15SBS has attracted many riders that would otherwise have never caught the M15 is there was no SBS. 5/Mad routes see about 75,000 passengers per weekday, and 3/Lex gets about 58,196.

 

I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but the two of you are making definitive statements when you really have no place to say that people wont ride a bus that isn't in existence.... To date, ridership has increases on every SBS route introduced. What would be different here?

 

 

Just throwing it out there, but the M101/102 ridership also includes riders going to points away from the Lexington Avenue Line. (M101 riders along 125th & Amsterdam, and M102 riders along Lenox).

[AndrewJC]

Depending on how far you have to walk to the versus the bus that may not necessarily be true since the Lex. lines don't run on Lex the entire time.

 

 

Not sure what that has to do with my point, but Park is one fairly short block from Lex (which in turn is one fairly short block from 3rd).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not sure what that has to do with my point, but Park is one fairly short block from Lex (which in turn is one fairly short block from 3rd).

 

Maybe you should read it again since you have a hard time understanding...

[AndrewJC]

Maybe you should read it again since you have a hard time understanding...

 

 

Maybe you should explain what you mean if you want your readers to understand.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Maybe you should explain what you mean if you want your readers to understand.

 

Actually I think it's quite clear. You seem to be the one with the problem understanding.

[AndrewJC]

Actually I think it's quite clear. You seem to be the one with the problem understanding.

 

 

Believe what you'd like to believe. This is the post you were responding to, except you didn't actually respond to anything I said.

[checkmatechamp13]

Believe what you'd like to believe. This is the post you were responding to, except you didn't actually respond to anything I said.

 

 

I think when he said that they don't run on Lexington Avenue the entire time, he's referring to the fact that the M101/102 go on and serve other corridors besides 3rd/Lex.

[qjtransitmaster]

Just throwing it out there, but the M101/102 ridership also includes riders going to points away from the Lexington Avenue Line. (M101 riders along 125th & Amsterdam, and M102 riders along Lenox).

 

Err who cares M15 doesn't duplicate the subway yet.

[AndrewJC]

I think when he said that they don't run on Lexington Avenue the entire time, he's referring to the fact that the M101/102 go on and serve other corridors besides 3rd/Lex.

 

 

How would SBS on Amsterdam or Lenox alleviate overcrowding on a subway line on Lex?

 

As I said, improvements to bus service should be judged on their own merits, not as attempts to reduce subway crowding. (The 125th Street corridor is slated to get SBS improvements as part of the planned M60 upgrade, and the M101 stands to benefit.)

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

How would SBS on Amsterdam or Lenox alleviate overcrowding on a subway line on Lex?

 

As I said, improvements to bus service should be judged on their own merits, not as attempts to reduce subway crowding. (The 125th Street corridor is slated to get SBS improvements as part of the planned M60 upgrade, and the M101 stands to benefit.)

 

It won't his judgement is very poor amsterdam has subway service. You have to be really HIGH to believe that Lexington overcrowding can be alleviated with SBS on amsterdam and lenox this thread is only going to create more problems. AGAIN IF U THINK SBS WILL ALLEVIATE & & CROWDS you are on some strong stuff that needs to be left alone.

 

Give up the logic here has went down the drain you can tell from that post you replied to.

[East New York]

I don't know what it is with a lot of you guys on this forum NOT READING posts in their entirety.

 

Just throwing it out there, but the M101/102 ridership also includes riders going to points away from the Lexington Avenue Line. (M101 riders along 125th & Amsterdam, and M102 riders along Lenox).

 

 

You are stating the obvious....

 

How would SBS on Amsterdam or Lenox alleviate overcrowding on a subway line on Lex?

 

As I said, improvements to bus service should be judged on their own merits, not as attempts to reduce subway crowding. (The 125th Street corridor is slated to get SBS improvements as part of the planned M60 upgrade, and the M101 stands to benefit.)

 

 

Who said anything about SBS on Amsterdam or Lenox would alleviate overcrowding on a subway line on Lex????

 

This is New York City Transit, sometimes it is need to evaluate the affects of both train, and bus service together. So whether or not you feel it should be that way, at times it is. The M15SBS was created by the TA to move people faster and take a little tension off Lex.

 

 

It won't his judgement is very poor amsterdam has subway service. You have to be really HIGH to believe that Lexington overcrowding can be alleviated with SBS on amsterdam and lenox this thread is only going to create more problems. AGAIN IF U THINK SBS WILL ALLEVIATE & & CROWDS you are on some strong stuff that needs to be left alone.

 

Give up the logic here has went down the drain you can tell from that post you replied to.

 

 

I am definitely not in the mood for any of your smart-ass co-signing comments. No one said anything about the bullshit you are running wild with in this post.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You are stating the obvious....

 

I thought I was the only one that thought this...

[Grand Concourse]

I don't understand why some were so quick to say SBS on Lexington won't work. Like I said and you said - It's not to replace or be to par with a subway, but at least it's something to help carry some more people since you can only run so many trains on the same 2 tracks per direction. If they add any more trains, then you may be getting to your destination faster by bus if trains are crawling due to additional train traffic. Perhaps if the SBS were to work, maybe it should mirror the subway express stops?

[Gorgor]

I don't understand why some were so quick to say SBS on Lexington won't work. Like I said and you said - It's not to replace or be to par with a subway, but at least it's something to help carry some more people since you can only run so many trains on the same 2 tracks per direction. If they add any more trains, then you may be getting to your destination faster by bus if trains are crawling due to additional train traffic. Perhaps if the SBS were to work, maybe it should mirror the subway express stops?

 

 

People just are saying SBS will fix the problem without thinking.

 

SBS will speed up boarding times, although I rarely see many people waiting on Lexington Av for a downtown bus. There are already bus lanes, so go ahead and paint those red if you must. Cars legally making right turns must stop for pedestrians, which could easily take the entire light cycle in MIdtown and either force the bus to wait or merge with traffic to go around the bus.

 

The M15 SBS works because there's not much traffic, and even when there is there are never many pedestrians so cars legally making right turns in the bus lane don't delay the bus that much. SBS is a solution for areas that have the potential to speed up bus travel; not for dense traffic areas. SBS doesn't eliminate traffic, it just causes more of it by displacing cars from one lane.

[checkmatechamp13]

I thought I was the only one that thought this...

 

 

Ooooh, wow. A whopping 2 people thought this.

 

He said 3rd/Lexington Avenue is the second-busiest corridor (after Madison/5th). Except that the numbers he put up aren't just for 3rd/Lexington Avenue. They include ridership on the other corridors the routes serve, and so that statement isn't true. You don't count somebody making their trip entirely along Amsterdam Avenue just because the route they use happens to serve 3rd/Lexington.

 

The M15 gets something like 55,000 riders a day. The 3rd/Lexington Lines combined get 58,000 riders. You're going to tell me that between the M101 & M102, only 3,000 people ride along Lenox, Amsterdam, and 125th (without traveling along 3rd/Lexington at all)? Even for Madison/5th, it would be a stretch to say that between the M2, M3, & M4, only 20,000 riders travel within Upper Manhattan.

 

So yeah, you can take that and shove it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ooooh, wow. A whopping 2 people thought this.

 

He said 3rd/Lexington Avenue is the second-busiest corridor (after Madison/5th). Except that the numbers he put up aren't just for 3rd/Lexington Avenue. They include ridership on the other corridors the routes serve, and so that statement isn't true. You don't count somebody making their trip entirely along Amsterdam Avenue just because the route they use happens to serve 3rd/Lexington.

 

The M15 gets something like 55,000 riders a day. The 3rd/Lexington Lines combined get 58,000 riders. You're going to tell me that between the M101 & M102, only 3,000 people ride along Lenox, Amsterdam, and 125th (without traveling along 3rd/Lexington at all)? Even for Madison/5th, it would be a stretch to say that between the M2, M3, & M4, only 20,000 riders travel within Upper Manhattan.

 

So yeah, you can take that and shove it.

 

I think sometimes you seriously just like to argue just for the sake of it. Sometimes you've even argued when there was nothing to debate (since you were basically re-stating what the other person had already said) and you stating the obvious at times does just that. Learn how to chill out sometimes with the damn figures, as if everything revolves around them because they don't. There is no need to correct every single thing that someone says or point out things that people left out because just maybe they left it out because they wanted to or didn't think it was necessary to mention it. It's really annoying.

 

You can take that however you want but I speak from experience. It's generally frowned upon to go around trying to correct people as if you're perfect and please don't go asking when did you say you were perfect either because I'm not going back and forth on this. Just a word of advice. Take it however you want.

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't know what it is with a lot of you guys on this forum NOT READING posts in their entirety.

 

 

 

You are stating the obvious....

 

 

 

Who said anything about SBS on Amsterdam or Lenox would alleviate overcrowding on a subway line on Lex????

 

This is New York City Transit, sometimes it is need to evaluate the affects of both train, and bus service together. So whether or not you feel it should be that way, at times it is. The M15SBS was created by the TA to move people faster and take a little tension off Lex.

 

 

 

 

I am definitely not in the mood for any of your smart-ass co-signing comments. No one said anything about the bullshit you are running wild with in this post.

 

Calm down buddy.

I don't understand why some were so quick to say SBS on Lexington won't work. Like I said and you said - It's not to replace or be to par with a subway, but at least it's something to help carry some more people since you can only run so many trains on the same 2 tracks per direction. If they add any more trains, then you may be getting to your destination faster by bus if trains are crawling due to additional train traffic. Perhaps if the SBS were to work, maybe it should mirror the subway express stops?

 

HA very funny let SBS go to 5th/madison first where it is needed the most If you want speed in manhattan you do not want the bus get this though your head.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

HA very funny let SBS go to 5th/madison first where it is needed the most If you want speed in manhattan you do not want the bus get this though your head.

 

You need to get it through your head that not everyone uses the subway and the bus is more convenient for them...

[Grand Concourse]

@qjt: huh? ^

[qjtransitmaster]

You need to get it through your head that not everyone uses the subway and the bus is more convenient for them...

 

Then leave Manhattan if you don't like trains. Or go live in LES areas where bus service is useful guess what almost no one cares about Manhattan buses other than cross towns. This topic is complete crap If SBS can improve bus service in Manhattan then yes but alleviate Lexington overcrowding never gonna happen. You are on some strong shit if you believe a single sole will give up the & for no bus now look at other corridors that need it.

 

Let's shut up about the lex only another subway line will alleviate the Lexington line not some bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Then leave manhattan if you don't like trains. Or go live in LES areas where bus service is useful guess what almost noone cares about manhattan buses other than cross towns. This topic is complete crap If SBS can improve bus service in manhattan then yes but alleviate lex overcrowding NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. You are on some strong shit if you believe a single sole will give up the & for no bus now look at other corridors that need it.

 

Let's shut up about the lex only another subway line will alleviate the lexington line not some bus.

 

LMAO.... I see why you keep talking about "speed"... Keep on using that good stuff...

[Grand Concourse]

Oh god... it's back to square 1 again... I'll say this one more time: You can't run any more trains under Lexington av. You need an additional service above the road to help with the 'spill over' of riders. No one ever said SBS on Lexington would be the solution, it's to be a supplement not a replacement.