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Why can't trains on the Manhattan Bridge run faster?

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Does the (N) and (Q) trains via the Manhattan Bridge save time? Does it make the travel time a bit faster than with the (R) local via the Montague Street Tunnel? I myself find it to be a bit useless and feel that it takes about 10-15 minutes for the (N) and (Q) to get between Canal Street, Lower Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn. Due to the numerous curves as well as the junction at DeKalb Avenue, trains often arrive off schedule and get held at the tunnel to let the (B) or (D) proceed first. I don't even know why residents at Dyker Heights and many more were pissed off after losing their daytime Manhattan Bridge express service on the (N) line back in the past since there's already the switching, junction and the curves between the Manhattan Bridge crossing and the Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center station.

 

As always known, the (B)(Q) Brighton and the (D)(N) 4th Avenue may arrive at the same time and get held to let the former of which proceed first. Matter of fact, this has happen alot of times than the usual (B) Brighton / (N) 4th Avenue and (D) 4th Avenue / (Q) Brighton...

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You dont know if a train is early, late or an extra. Also, there is significant time savings over the tunnel as well, even with the wait at Gold St.

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Despite the Dekalb plague, it does save time, as the (R) crawls through lower Manhattan.

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it really don't matter depending on what stop you get on in brooklyn to stop you get off in manhattan. When i used to lived in bay ridge, my mom get on the (R) at 86 street, Brooklyn and get off at 49 street in Manhattan. She just stay on one train all the way. it not worth trying to take the express because you never know if the express will screw your timing. Like TwoTimer said it eight minute different. To save eight minutes is not worth it.

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it really don't matter depending on what stop you get on in brooklyn to stop you get off in manhattan. When i used to lived in bay ridge, my mom get on the (R) at 86 street, Brooklyn and get off at 49 street in Manhattan. She just stay on one train all the way. it not worth trying to take the express because you never know if the express will screw your timing. Like TwoTimer said it eight minute different. To save eight minutes is not worth it.

 

 

If your on the (Q)and there is an (R) sitting Accross the platform and your worried about risking the 8 min then take the (R).

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Basically, I'm with Threxx on this....

 

Y'all can do what y'all want, but there's no way in hell I'm getting off a manhattan bound Q to take a manhattan bound R if both trains are at Dekalb & I'm heading to Canal st or some station north along the broadway line....

 

Hell, there's this hobby shop I go to that's right over there on broadway b/w 26th-27th, and I walk from union square.... I don't take it to 34th & walk back because I don't feel like being bothered w/ all the slow walking shoppers along/around 34th.... Nor do I get off the Q I'm on @ union sq. & wait for the R for two stops (to 28th).... By time the R comes, there's a good chance I'm already 1/2 way to my destination.....

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Topic has been edited to question "Why can't trains on Manhattan Bridge run faster?" Since this also applies to the (B) and (D) trains as well.

This young man (Rolls over my head)is probably too young to remember the horror days of the nearly 20 years re-construction of the "Manny B" between say 1985-2003.

 

With period of *no trains* over the bridge at all including weekdays and massive congestation over the tunnel. On question why the trains can't run a little slower I let a train operator explain. With that said, the current set-up of (B)(D)(N)(Q) works very good other than the slight delays at Canal when a Queens Bound (N) has to switch to Local tracks.

 

When i ride on mainly weekends and holidays on the (N)(Q) for past 5 years since i moved from Brooklyn, I find the trains to travel at descent speeds (same as the (J)(M) over Willie B)so maybe i view it different. Just my takes.

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You dont know if a train is early, late or an extra. Also, there is significant time savings over the tunnel as well, even with the wait at Gold St.

 

 

I remember that in another discussion that you reminded me that trains on elevated track cannot exceed 40-45 miles per hour. That was what came to mind when I first saw the opening post before going through the comments. Is this the case here with the Manny Bridge as well in addition to the other points you brought out?

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This is why trains can't run faster on any bridge.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...nted=all&src=pm

 

 

I have worked the (B)(D)(J)(M)(N) and (Q) i have moved the train faster across the Willy B(Go figure) than the Manhattan bridge...

 

Those signals are just probably Slower to clear on the Manhattan bridge i think also add (as a poster said) the times going into Dekalb and Canal Street, Grand street not as much.

Edited by RTOMan
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Yeah but does the slowness of the Manhattan Bridge and the Williamsburg Bridge have to do with the East River itself? If so, then that's 100% fine at least to me.

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1.) The Williamsburg Bridge crash didn't have anything to do with the fact that it took place on a bridge, as stated in the accident report.

 

2.) Keep in mind that the slow speeds on the bridges result from the steep upgrade approaching the bridge and the steep downgrade (requiring timers to reduce stopping distance) going back underground.

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25 MPH GTs on the Manny B (both sides IIRC); despite this the bridge still saves significant time over the tunnel.

Did the "bridge flexing" have anything to do with these restrictions, in addition to the steep grade?

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1.) The Williamsburg Bridge crash didn't have anything to do with the fact that it took place on a bridge, as stated in the accident report.

 

2.) Keep in mind that the slow speeds on the bridges result from the steep upgrade approaching the bridge and the steep downgrade (requiring timers to reduce stopping distance) going back underground.

 

To elaborate further, in tunnels, the downgrade comes first, so timers regulate the speed in the beginning, but by the middle of the tunnel, they end, and then you can pick up speed, and the upgrade slows you down further, but you can usually maintain faster than 25.

 

On the bridges, the upgrade is first, and on both the Manhattan and Williamsburg, maximum power only gives you about 30. But then, after the midpoint, it turns into a downgrade, with no upgrade after it, so they stiffly regulate the speed all the way to the next station.

 

I wish they would allow at least 30, but they don't trust the stopping distances of the trains on the downgrade.

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I guess I have to put this to bed.

 

Willy B (both directions) 20mph max from 2/5's up (first timer) all the way down to the beginning to the portal decent (Manhattan-bound), then 13.

 

Manny B (both directions) 23 max on the downgrade, select timers clear slower. As was stated before, you don't get the big timer-free downgrade to push 45+ since there's no upgrade to slow you down again.

 

The Manny is faster than the Willie, but not by much. The Willie just looks faster based on how it's built, R160 equipment, and the signals are closer together. Its just like people think the south side of the bridge is faster than the north side, when the opposite is true. There is only ONE timer that clears slower than 22 on the north side, there are a few on the south side. its just the south side has R160 equipment, the north side has 68/A.

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