R211 Discussion

[Kamen Rider]

if the platform screen door people want the requests answered, they need to push for them to be normal 60' cars.

[Art Vandelay]

if the platform screen door people want the requests answered, they need to push for them to be have a door layout which does not conflict with normal 60' cars.

[bobtehpanda]

if the platform screen door people want the requests answered, they need to push for them to be have a door layout which does not conflict with normal 60' cars.

 

Essentially, five-door 75 footers.

 

Are the subway cars exactly 75 and 60 feet? Cause if they're not, that could lead to issues.

[Fan Railer]

Essentially, five-door 75 footers.

 

Are the subway cars exactly 75 and 60 feet? Cause if they're not, that could lead to issues.

Dimensions are in the spec sheets on nycsubway.org. Go have a gander....

[LTA1992]

The 60 Footers are actually 60 Feet 6 Inches long. 

[Far Rock Depot]

From anticlimber to anticlimber, 60' cars are 60 feet. The 6 inches comes from each end where the coupler sticks out. 75 foot cars are 75' from coupler face to coupler face. The lengths of each consist is as follows:

 

8 75' cars = 600 feet

10 60'6" cars are 605 feet.

 

you'll have an offset on each door to platform screen door at a minimal if you base a 5 door 75 footer to the specs of the R143/160s. The placement of older cars-R32s to R68s is a whole other story....

[R10 2952]

What we really need is 67.5' cars with four doors per side, that would be the best compromise, but it would only make sense if all platforms were extended to 675 feet so as to accommodate ten-car trains of 67.5' cars.  Yes, it's quite the pipe dream, but it would truly be great if it became reality.

[bobtehpanda]

What we really need is 67.5' cars with four doors per side, that would be the best compromise, but it would only make sense if all platforms were extended to 675 feet so as to accommodate ten-car trains of 67.5' cars.  Yes, it's quite the pipe dream, but it would truly be great if it became reality.

 

Wasn't that the length of the BMT Standard?

[R10 2952]

Precisely.  It worked out pretty well for the BMT, too (unlike 75-footers, Standards were able to run on the Eastern Division).

[AndrewJC]

Let's not forget that "open [articulated] gangway" idea, which was added. (I'm not sure that will work with 75 ft).

 

I'd be very surprised if it would. Watch the car ends do their dance on today's 75 foot cars as they go around curves.

 

Perhaps we'll see five-door 75-footers, to fix the longer loading/unloading times of the 75ft cars?

 

That would please me greatly!

[Union Tpke]

The R211s will be 75 feet for those who aren't paying attention according to the MTA's 20 year assessment.

 

 

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[LTA1992]

I actually saw that and that makes open gangways impossible. But the following order, providing it's 60ft for the B Div, could. Like the S Stock on the LU, each 5 car set could allow you to walk from one end to the other freely. The next A div order could do the same. Thus adding a bit of capacity to the trains.

[bobtehpanda]

Is 75 ft the length between couplers or the length of the physical carbody itself? Because if it's just the distance between couplers, couldn't you theoretically extend the gangway and shorten the carbody to make it more able to accommodate curves?

[Art Vandelay]

The 20 year asessment does not state anywhere that the R211s will in fact be 75 feet. 

[LTA1992]

You're right, I had to read that again. It's mentioned as an "assumption". So open gangways are still possible. This is why I need to start college already, my reading skills have dropped lol

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Precisely.  It worked out pretty well for the BMT, too (unlike 75-footers, Standards were able to run on the Eastern Division).

The R110B train that ran on the and lines back in the 90s had 67.5-foot cars, same length as the Standards. The R143, R160 and forthcoming R179 cars are based on the R110A, yet they went back to 60 feet for those cars. So 67.5-footers worked for the BMT, but apparently not for the MTA. I wonder why?

[LTA1992]

60 and 75 foot cars are easier for even set splits? You only need 2 sets to make a train. For the R110B, 3 sets were needed to make a 9 car train. This is just a guess obviously, I'm just giving an answer until someone more knowledgeable can give the proper one.

[Union Tpke]

The R110B train that ran on the and lines back in the 90s had 67.5-foot cars, same length as the Standards. The R143, R160 and forthcoming R179 cars are based on the R110A, yet they went back to 60 feet for those cars. So 67.5-footers worked for the BMT, but apparently not for the MTA. I wonder why?

They are based on the R110B not R110A.

[Grand Concourse]

Eastern division (except Metropolitan av) can hold at least 9 60'car trains and they would've been better off ordering 67'car trains (in groups of 8) specifically for there. That way they don't need to deal with the overcrowding issues on the L by having trains be 9 or 10 60'car trains. They blew it on that issue. As for the rest of the B division, it has to be 60' or 75'car trains.

 

I don't remember the R110B, but they were 3 sets (aba) of 3. I dunno if they were linked sets or if they could be split to allow a maybe 4 car train ABBA set to be possible. I remember reading that only 6cars were left with 3 cannibalized for parts and were relegated to the C. FDNY has a couple of cars for training, but I dunno if those were the cannibalized cars and the ones at 207th are the 'working' sets.

[Eric B]

The R110B train that ran on the and lines back in the 90s had 67.5-foot cars, same length as the Standards. The R143, R160 and forthcoming R179 cars are based on the R110A, yet they went back to 60 feet for those cars. So 67.5-footers worked for the BMT, but apparently not for the MTA. I wonder why?

The placing of the bolsters (which peg the trucks to the cars) were different from the standards, so they went around curves differently, and were deemed not safe (for the same reasons 75ft cars aren't).

[LTA1992]

Eastern division (except Metropolitan av) can hold at least 9 60'car trains and they would've been better off ordering 67'car trains (in groups of 8) specifically for there. That way they don't need to deal with the overcrowding issues on the L by having trains be 9 or 10 60'car trains. They blew it on that issue. As for the rest of the B division, it has to be 60' or 75'car trains.

 

I don't remember the R110B, but they were 3 sets (aba) of 3. I dunno if they were linked sets or if they could be split to allow a maybe 4 car train ABBA set to be possible. I remember reading that only 6cars were left with 3 cannibalized for parts and were relegated to the C. FDNY has a couple of cars for training, but I dunno if those were the cannibalized cars and the ones at 207th are the 'working' sets.

Yeah, they were linked ABA and the B cars were trailers.

[Eric B]

So now this "open gangway" idea has reached the news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/nyregion/no-doors-between-subway-cars-mta-may-consider-new-model.html

[pjbr40]

yes it was on cbs new york web  too

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/20/future-subway-trains-might-have-no-doors-between-cars/

[itmaybeokay]

So now this "open gangway" idea has reached the news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/nyregion/no-doors-between-subway-cars-mta-may-consider-new-model.html

 

Yeah, based on one throwaway line in the twenty-year needs assessment. (Document source)

 

 

In particular, consideration should be given to: 

 

• Trainsets with open gangways between cars, similar to the design of articulated buses. This will both maximize carrying capacity, and allow passenger to move to less-crowded areas of the train, balancing loading and unloading times at all doors. 

 

 

This literally shows no more level of commitment, development, or desire than the R211 RFP. To me, it's not a news story, but whatever. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

They are based on the R110B not R110A.

They are based on the R110A. They just have longer, wider car bodies. More of the R110A's features, cosmetic and mechanical, got carried over into all of the NTT fleets. The big one that came from the 110B was the line maps with lights for each station, which is only on the R142s and 143s (the FIND display replaced them on the 160s).