realizm Posted October 31, 2012 Share #101 Posted October 31, 2012 Personally as long as the trains run efficiently and in good working repair, I'm content. Speaking as a Bronx resident that actually takes the Lexington Ave line, and that includes the . The R62's runs like workhorses with great A/C during the summers. I'm fine with them. The MTA decided that through intensive studies that Queens residents conclusively need CBTC with NTT trains that can take advantage of this newly installed technology, that's all there is to it. Why do you think the QBL is next on their CBTC hit list? No brainer isn't it? Arguing over UES residents who couldn't care less about their neighborly New Yorkers in the outer boroughs. Pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Express Posted October 31, 2012 Share #102 Posted October 31, 2012 I love how people restate the same things people said numerous times... Some logic. Speaking of OTTs, I would probably be banned if I said what I wanted to do with my foot and those R68s. Anyways, lets see what happens. I think that we need to stop downgrading the cars, with the exception of the summer moves like the swap. That's the neighborhood whose residents think they are entitled to newer trains just because they have more money than any other NYC neighborhood....which bears the question - why aren't you all taking limos??? Ahha. #Boost. The backlash is because the riders on the are experiencing a DOWNGRADE in their equipment. The argument that back in the early 2000s era where the were using 62As is just plain stupid. Are we back in the late 1990s to early 2000s? No. Plus, it was refreshing to see rolling stock other than the old generation of SMEEs which is why people appreciated the trains back then because it was an UPGRADE. I refuse to take sides in this argument because I frankly do not care whether what I ride on is an R142A or an R62A, but I do understand why Pelham/East Side riders would be outraged at this change. This is what I have been trying to say the WHOLE DAMN TIME. Someone give this man a beer. As a matter of fact, I will. You're a foamer if you disagree with their views, period. Not sure how to respond to this. Just because I disagree with you makes me a foamer? notice how he didn't say anything about me calling him an arrogant prick... admittance? As far as this goes, according to you all, everyone is a foamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted October 31, 2012 Share #103 Posted October 31, 2012 Mine? It was in reference to the fact that he calls anyone who disagrees with him a foamer. No, his.... lool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted October 31, 2012 Share #104 Posted October 31, 2012 Just a question, since everyone is arguing over the UES. Where can one see people complaining about old trains? Is there like a website or anything that? Because I only hear that stuff on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted October 31, 2012 Share #105 Posted October 31, 2012 Thank you. That's my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted October 31, 2012 Share #106 Posted October 31, 2012 Their outrage is very understandable NO line should ever be downgraded period buy new trains if you need to upgrade lines but do not ever downgrade a line for another that is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted October 31, 2012 Share #107 Posted October 31, 2012 Their outrage is very understandable NO line should ever be downgraded period buy new trains if you need to upgrade lines but do not ever downgrade a line for another that is wrong. UES residents are getting their Second Avenue Line very soon now, which will alleviate much of their frustration with congestion on the Lex to a large degree which is understandable I would think. Can't Queens residents get a slice of that pie with some simple enhancements to their lines they need to commute? Sorry for taking this to a different level but I think this makes sense. It's not always about trains but needed infrastructure improvements or new construction altogether to help New Yorkers go to where they need to go quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted October 31, 2012 Share #108 Posted October 31, 2012 No. Us UES riders will get pissed off. We have nice, modern subway cars with audible announcements. We don't want to go back in time and get those old subway cars. Those announcements aren't inaudible. pardon my ignorance but I'm more of a bust God. What is UE S? Upper East Side. Wow, there's some fanaticism with some sort of a car type going to a particular route just because it has ran on there before... I'm not seeing what you're saying. We're not saying it should go there because it has gone there before. We're saying that it would still be a step up from what they had before the NTTs. I completely agree with this statement. I don't see what's so special about the Upper East Side. I'll bet that the richest people who live there don't even ride the subway right now. That's just a guess. I think that if you pulled the NTTs from just about any line, somebody would be upset. Yes, it's true that wealthier people generally have higher expectations, but I'm just saying that the line complainers aren't necessarily any richer than those elsewhere. Do we even know how many people are complaining? I mean, how many people even pay attention to the different car swaps and all that? Personally, my feeling is to just let them complain (again, if that is indeed the case). As long as the MTA doesn't give in to those complaints, who cares? We're not going to convince the people that it's not so bad, so why bother? Yep I agree... I don't live on the Upper East Side and I'm most certainly against having those R62As return back to the . Hell I'd even sign a petition to keep them off of the . Keep them on the where they belong. I'm sure those folks enjoy those cars anyway. The Lexington Av line is the most used line in the system and as such the cars take on an enormous wear and tear not to mention that we should be showcashing the best cars on our heaviest used lines for the tourists and such. It's like running beat up Q32 buses on 5th Avenue. I mean come on!! Before these cars there were those crappy Redbirds, so riders have had enough old cars. Almost every line runs through some touristy areas. There are a bunch of subway lines through Times Square. The runs along Central Park West and serves the Museum of Natural History, Columbus Circle, Penn Station, Times Square, PABT, Greenwich Village, and other attractions, at it runs the oldest cars in the system. The & don't have NTTs and you don't hear the tourists complaining. Not to be technically here, but that car is a B-Division car most likely either an R27 or R30. That's not an IRT car I last checked. Some of you guys complaining about announcements not being heard need to look back Pre-1960s to when there was no announcements being made and everyone that rode the subway daily knew where to go. I think the issue is more that in the event of a delay, you won't be able to hear if the train is being rerouted. I don't know about that... Exactly. You don't know about that. The oldest R62As were delivered in 1984, which was after you were born. Cuz you're a rich person and residing in Riverdale...? I wouldn't be so sure about that. Well I think we'd prefer not go backyards if you know what I mean... When cars are swapped, some lines will go "forward", and some will go "backwards". There's nothing you can do. It's not like the R62As are terrible cars, and in maybe 10-15 years, they'll get new cars anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted October 31, 2012 Share #109 Posted October 31, 2012 Their outrage is very understandable NO line should ever be downgraded period buy new trains if you need to upgrade lines but do not ever downgrade a line for another that is wrong. Guess the MTA has no morals, then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted October 31, 2012 Share #110 Posted October 31, 2012 Guess the MTA has no morals, then... Plus, what's the MTA going to do? Scrap perfectly serviceable trains because a segment doesn't want the old trains? How about if they don't like the old trains that much, just take a cab ride. You can't satisfy everyone. Of course I'm sure the whole city would want new everything, but the MTA can't go on a mass spending spree because someone is so irate over taking an older train. Good heavens... People would complain that their fares are like $5 per direction to cover the costs, you can't win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted November 1, 2012 Share #111 Posted November 1, 2012 You calling him a foamer? Anyway, I think what needs to be remembered is that while just about every rider prefers new trains, there are other restrictions in the NYC subway system as to what equipment can run where besides what people want. The makes sense for CBTC, as stated many times, because it's an isolated, short, line with aging signals that are going to need replacing anyway. The arguments over whether the R62As are good enough for the or not are beside the point in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoking66 Posted November 1, 2012 Share #112 Posted November 1, 2012 Let's see... Maybe because we're supposed to have the best transit system in the world being New York. If you folks got out more you'd understand why my expectations are so high... I've rode subways all around the world and NYC is just catching up... Smh New York may have a good transit system, but take it from a New Yorker who now lives in London: the Tube absolutely destroys the subway apart from a lack of 24-hour running. And this is a system that's a half-century older than the subway at its oldest with deep-bore sections slightly older than the IRT. Almost every line runs under 5 minute intervals at all times during running hours, even at 11.30pm (the Victoria line will be doing every 2min then); the Lex doesn't even do that. It's nowhere near as dirty, it's more architecturally and historically interesting and cars from the early 70s (and until recently, late 60s) are holding up better than their newer New York equivalents. TfL is responsible and constantly in touch with passengers about the massive upgrades that go on here and continues to publish and update external material with transparency and goals you'd never see from the MTA. More on point of the thread, the R142s shouldn't be leaving the Lex, but I view this more from a capacity issue. The R142s have wider and non-aligned doors to increase standing room and ease boarding and alighting issues as well as slightly increased capacity, any of which is welcome. The bigger question is why the Flushing Line needed to go to CBTC until it was due for a rolling stock upgrade. Wouldn't it have made more sense to begin installation of CBTC on the QBL and progressively have it in place to test interoperability and interconnected line issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 1, 2012 Share #113 Posted November 1, 2012 New York may have a good transit system, but take it from a New Yorker who now lives in London: the Tube absolutely destroys the subway apart from a lack of 24-hour running. And this is a system that's a half-century older than the subway at its oldest with deep-bore sections slightly older than the IRT. Almost every line runs under 5 minute intervals at all times during running hours, even at 11.30pm (the Victoria line will be doing every 2min then); the Lex doesn't even do that. It's nowhere near as dirty, it's more architecturally and historically interesting and cars from the early 70s (and until recently, late 60s) are holding up better than their newer New York equivalents. TfL is responsible and constantly in touch with passengers about the massive upgrades that go on here and continues to publish and update external material with transparency and goals you'd never see from the MTA. More on point of the thread, the R142s shouldn't be leaving the Lex, but I view this more from a capacity issue. The R142s have wider and non-aligned doors to increase standing room and ease boarding and alighting issues as well as slightly increased capacity, any of which is welcome. The bigger question is why the Flushing Line needed to go to CBTC until it was due for a rolling stock upgrade. Wouldn't it have made more sense to begin installation of CBTC on the QBL and progressively have it in place to test interoperability and interconnected line issues? Oh I believe you... That's why I said folks need to get out and travel more. The US rail system is so antiquated when compared to the rail systems in Europe that it isn't even funny. Even EuroStar is very comfy and classy when compared to say the overpriced MetroNorth or LIRR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Express Posted November 1, 2012 Share #114 Posted November 1, 2012 You calling him a foamer? Anyway, I think what needs to be remembered is that while just about every rider prefers new trains, there are other restrictions in the NYC subway system as to what equipment can run where besides what people want. The makes sense for CBTC, as stated many times, because it's an isolated, short, line with aging signals that are going to need replacing anyway. The arguments over whether the R62As are good enough for the or not are beside the point in my opinion. I gave him a beer because besides Gorgor and VG8, he is the only one making some sense in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 1, 2012 Share #115 Posted November 1, 2012 I gave him a beer because besides Gorgor and VG8, he is the only one making some sense in this thread. Demanding that the MTA cancel their CBTC plans and keep the 62As on the is making sense? Can you explain to me the logic behind this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted November 1, 2012 Share #116 Posted November 1, 2012 I gave him a beer because besides Gorgor and VG8, he is the only one making some sense in this thread. I know what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted November 1, 2012 Share #117 Posted November 1, 2012 Yep, with my father and it was disgusting... Those depressing R32s... There were a lot of older cars that predated the R32s by as much as sixteen years that were still in service into the 80s. R32s weren't the only subway cars in the system that were depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvega961 Posted November 1, 2012 Share #118 Posted November 1, 2012 What the richie riches on the Upper East Side are going to complain that an already molded NTT is going bye bye? Give me a f*cking break. If they don't like it, like someone on here, take a damn bus or drive around in your own private limos. Bastards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted November 1, 2012 Share #119 Posted November 1, 2012 More on point of the thread, the R142s shouldn't be leaving the Lex, but I view this more from a capacity issue. The R142s have wider and non-aligned doors to increase standing room and ease boarding and alighting issues as well as slightly increased capacity, any of which is welcome. The bigger question is why the Flushing Line needed to go to CBTC until it was due for a rolling stock upgrade. Wouldn't it have made more sense to begin installation of CBTC on the QBL and progressively have it in place to test interoperability and interconnected line issues? Three things you must consider: First, the MTA needs overhauled R142s and new R188's (Hint: New tech trains NOT aged R62's) to be able to operate on an upgraded Flushing line signal system capabilities using automated train operation technology to increase train capacity and ultimately improve on TPH. Second, as far as your capacity issues are concerned on the Lexington Ave line are concerned, the Second Ave Line to be completed in a few years will obviously address those issues. Lastly, CBTC on QBL is of course, an issue that must be addressed as soon as MTA can come up with funding for this and as studies are finally completed I'm assuming. Progressively, eight decades of studies went into this. Discuss. Edit: Maybe we shouldn't even compare the London Tubes to the NYC Subway, geographically, economically and politically speaking comparing apples and oranges. Unless you wish to. Not a valid arguement, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted November 1, 2012 Share #120 Posted November 1, 2012 Just read 6 pages of this; First off, @Threxx, the conversation was bought up, so don't get on his ass about "not caring" about people affected by the hurricane. Secondly, why is everybody bashing Gorgor? I mean, he has a point. The point of this thread was why UES residents were complaining not why they shouldn't get the cars. I mean seriously, everyone keeps saying it's because UES'ers are so pompous when really if anywhere were to experience a downgrade, they would be complaining too. @Geoking It's because the signals on the need to be replaced pronto, and it would be cheaper to just do it now, instead of doing it twice within twenty-five years. Also, I have to agree with Realizim. SAS will be opened by the time the gets the old cars, so if people didn't like it they could just flock over there. And as I said before, if enough people complain they might restore X90 service. Also, the whole limo stuff is kind of obnoxious. Seriously, not everyone in the UES craps money, and as Realizim said, those who do, probably don't take the subway right now anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted November 1, 2012 Share #121 Posted November 1, 2012 What the richie riches on the Upper East Side are going to complain that an already molded NTT is going bye bye? Give me a f*cking break. If they don't like it, like someone on here, take a damn bus or drive around in your own private limos. Bastards I find it hilarious how the only argument people are giving in support of R62s for the is the fact that the line has 4 stops on the Upper East Side. And just because we all must be rich, snob elitists, we deserve to go back in time and get the old crappy subway cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted November 1, 2012 Share #122 Posted November 1, 2012 I find it hilarious how the only argument people are giving in support of R62s for the is the fact that the line has 4 stops on the Upper East Side. And just because we all must be rich, snob elitists, we deserve to go back in time and get the old crappy subway cars. Again, can R62's take advantage of CBTC capabilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted November 1, 2012 Share #123 Posted November 1, 2012 Again, can R62's take advantage of CBTC capabilities? Yes, but at that point, it would just be cheaper to buy entirely new cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted November 1, 2012 Share #124 Posted November 1, 2012 Yes, but at that point, it would just be cheaper to buy entirely new cars. Work with me, I'm working off Gorgor's logic since he put it that way. R62's should stay on the and run on CBTC. Even though UES residents will have the 2nd Ave Line to address capacity issues. Maybe he can explain the feasibility and sensibility of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted November 1, 2012 Share #125 Posted November 1, 2012 And just because we all must be rich, snob elitists, we deserve to go back in time and get the old crappy subway cars. The MTA should make a time machine and send you guys back to the 80s for a week or so. Then you'll see how good you have it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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