busdude2 Posted September 23, 2013 Share #501 Posted September 23, 2013 Why would Howell take them out of service like that though? I mean there's no indication that the new MCI have even arrived yet. Because NJT will not be paying for them and the order can't be delivered. So they should be parked until the courts decide what to do with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share #502 Posted September 23, 2013 Why would Howell take them out of service like that though? I mean there's no indication that the new MCI have even arrived yet. Because NJT will not be paying for them and the order can't be delivered. So they should be parked until the courts decide what to do with them. On the flipside, there's no word if NJT even paid for the buses they already have. Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted September 23, 2013 Share #503 Posted September 23, 2013 Alright 7782 is at Howell. This is a clear enough indication that those 6 DesignLines were pulled from service. Oradell wouldn't send one of their D4000's if they were in service. Cait, posted a pic in the Random thoughts thread of a bus hitting 79 MPH and he said that bus was from Oradell too. Are these just coincidences, or is Oradell loaning some D4000s to Howell to help them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted September 24, 2013 Share #504 Posted September 24, 2013 Im shocked Oradell would give up buses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted September 24, 2013 Share #505 Posted September 24, 2013 Im shocked Oradell would give up buses... As am I....... Man, MCI better not take long with these new D4500CT CNG buses. The last thing Howell needs is a bunch of D4000's on their heaviest routes. Which are basically all of them during the AM/PM rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share #506 Posted September 24, 2013 As am I....... Man, MCI better not take long with these new D4500CT CNG buses. The last thing Howell needs is a bunch of D4000's on their heaviest routes. Which are basically all of them during the AM/PM rush. It's gonna be a good while. NJ Transit gotta test the bus first before the mass-delivery comes through since this will be a whole different spec'd MCI they'll be ordering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted September 24, 2013 Share #507 Posted September 24, 2013 It's gonna be a good while. NJ Transit gotta test the bus first before the mass-delivery comes through since this will be a whole different spec'd MCI they'll be ordering. Different spec'd.....can you elaborate more on that please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share #508 Posted September 24, 2013 Different spec'd.....can you elaborate more on that please? Put it this way, New Jersey Transit has not ordered their own spec'd MCIs since 2006-2007, the new specs in the 2013 models will be much different from the specs we are all used to. Different interior lighting, stability control, powertrain, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted September 24, 2013 Share #509 Posted September 24, 2013 We all know the powertrain in the cng buses would be different anyway. Njt better not screw this up with there bs specs. The lighting shouldnt be an issue...well it shouldnt be lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share #510 Posted September 24, 2013 We all know the powertrain in the cng buses would be different anyway. Njt better not screw this up with there bs specs. The lighting shouldnt be an issue...well it shouldnt be lol. If they are as bright as the MCIs we got and the Designlines, there will be complaints lol. The LED lights on our 2012 units are super bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted September 24, 2013 Share #511 Posted September 24, 2013 We all know the powertrain in the cng buses would be different anyway. Njt better not screw this up with there bs specs. The lighting shouldnt be an issue...well it shouldnt be lol. They've screwed up almost every bus order they've had with their specs in the past. It's like I always say, you can fix buses, but you can't fix stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfs NJT459 Posted September 25, 2013 Share #512 Posted September 25, 2013 I did like the lights that were only on in the Luggage racks when Cait shot that video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worf Posted September 25, 2013 Share #513 Posted September 25, 2013 Because NJT will not be paying for them and the order can't be delivered. So they should be parked until the courts decide what to do with them. On the flipside, there's no word if NJT even paid for the buses they already have. Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 4 The thing here is if NJT did not make a payment on the Designline Bus's deliveried, that alone could be a contributing factor, along with the investors pulling, as to why Designline is in the state it is. NJT can not allow MCI to take the bus's in on a "trade" value if a settlement has not been reached with Designline. Most contracts work as such. A certain percentage of funds on the contract is given upfront, generally at the signing of said contract, and can range any where from 10 to 30% of the total contract.. Those funds are considered to be "working capital" towards the next phase in a said contract and the beginning of delivery of product. So the question is really, how much did NJT already give Designline and how much of those funds cover how many bus's deliveried. Keep in mind that every "special order" has it's own clauses for payments and delivery (the bus's are not considered to be a "off the shelf" product). So my guess is that IF NJT did a larger then normal up front deposit, dimes to donuts it covers at least what they have received from Designline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share #514 Posted September 28, 2013 7204, 7207, 7213 and 2 others were in service on the 130, 137 and 139 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted September 28, 2013 Share #515 Posted September 28, 2013 The thing here is if NJT did not make a payment on the Designline Bus's deliveried, that alone could be a contributing factor, along with the investors pulling, as to why Designline is in the state it is. Even more... IF NJT was supposed to pay something at a certain and it didn't DL could sue saying production was stopped because NJT broke/violated the terms of the contract. In that case DL could go after NJT for the profit they would've made on this contract, not have to build another bus and collect the profit from NJT they would've made on this deal. That's a big if NJT was supposed to pay something at a certain time and defaulted. I'm sure there portions of the contract that covers this, so NJT may not be liable, but in general if you break a contract, there are penalties to breaking a contract. Is this contract available to the public? Online anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worf Posted September 30, 2013 Share #516 Posted September 30, 2013 Even more... IF NJT was supposed to pay something at a certain and it didn't DL could sue saying production was stopped because NJT broke/violated the terms of the contract. In that case DL could go after NJT for the profit they would've made on this contract, not have to build another bus and collect the profit from NJT they would've made on this deal. That's a big if NJT was supposed to pay something at a certain time and defaulted. I'm sure there portions of the contract that covers this, so NJT may not be liable, but in general if you break a contract, there are penalties to breaking a contract. Is this contract available to the public? Online anywhere? I went looking through the NJT open site and could not find anything related to a contract with DL. Although that does not surprize me to much, I would think that certain provisions would be made public. It's really hard to say what "provisions" are in the contract, however, given that the DL bus's are still on routes, I would have to take a guess and say that DL can consider that they are pd in full for what NJT has. I did hear late last week that DL found a investor, but can not seem to confirm such. There has to be a lot more behnd this whole NJT and DL issue then what has been posted and what is known to be fact. Problem is I just can not seem to locate anyhting. So if anyone has any links, please feel free to post away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worf Posted September 30, 2013 Share #517 Posted September 30, 2013 01/19/2012 11-047 Purchase of CNG Buses DesignLine USA $45,455,516.00 No information anywhere on contract number 11-047. Wonder if a Freedom Of Information request would be helpful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share #518 Posted October 3, 2013 Found out some information.....New Jersey Transit does NOT have to pay Designline a single cent until all 76 buses were in service. Designline owes New Jersey Transit 3.6 million in late fees and if/when NJ Transit decides to cancel the contract, they will have to pay Designline a couple million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted October 3, 2013 Share #519 Posted October 3, 2013 Found out some information.....New Jersey Transit does NOT have to pay Designline a single cent until all 76 buses were in service. Designline owes New Jersey Transit 3.6 million in late fees and if/when NJ Transit decides to cancel the contract, they will have to pay Designline a couple million. Figured as much. NJT's probably gonna cancel the contract either way since the buses aren't gonna show up at all. But then again they may save themselves a few $$ and not cancel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJokaPlaya Posted October 3, 2013 Share #520 Posted October 3, 2013 I bet the new D4500's will look EXACTLY like the new D4505 that Greyhound has that are coming in now, the 86540+ series. I drove one last month and it looks lovely. I was able to snatched the driver manual before some idiot throws them away (No one keeps them). I'll post pics later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted October 4, 2013 Share #521 Posted October 4, 2013 01/19/2012 11-047 Purchase of CNG Buses DesignLine USA $45,455,516.00 No information anywhere on contract number 11-047. Wonder if a Freedom Of Information request would be helpful? July 2011 Board Meeting minutes....PDF page 81: http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/2011_07_13_OpenSess.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdude2 Posted October 4, 2013 Share #522 Posted October 4, 2013 July 2011 Board Meeting minutes....PDF page 81: http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/2011_07_13_OpenSess.pdf 11 million for 76 CNG bus replacement. That could mean anything from paying for the Designlines they already got to down a payment on another order. Because thats not nearly enough for a bus order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted October 4, 2013 Share #523 Posted October 4, 2013 11 million for 76 CNG bus replacement. That could mean anything from paying for the Designlines they already got to down a payment on another order. Because thats not nearly enough for a bus order. Where did you get $11 million from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdude2 Posted October 4, 2013 Share #524 Posted October 4, 2013 Where did you get $11 million from? Page 81 in the link above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8Hou Posted October 4, 2013 Share #525 Posted October 4, 2013 Page 81 in the link above. $11 million is from the state, the rest are the feds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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