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DesignLine Commuter Coach Discussion


Cait Sith

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I guess they wanted to try something new..typical NJT.

 

I can't help but think that the DesignLines are gonna start showing up more often if this contract goes well. If not, we're gonna have a bigger problem than before. Which may mean NABIs or Restroom buses on '9. So pray everything goes well. I'd rather have DesignLine than be crammed into a packed NABI or restroom D4000.

 

 

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Ugh I hope not. They gotta get MCI's and get out of this contract. NJT seems to be good at one thing and that's messing up a good thing.

DL Ecoshits will breakdown all the time because they are made like crap and ride like crap. Look at what Suffolk Transit is dealing with getting those crappy Phantoms in 2005, they're already beat to hell and letting passengers down time & time again and are left with putting 1999 Orion V's out, even the Clipper Buses if things are real bad. If NJT lets this contract go through 5 years from now they'll be dealing with shortages out Howell with all the Ecoshits out of service with problems. NJT has to get MCI to get the rest of this contract and they'll have buses out to NJT in no time. Only a sucker would stick with Designcrap after all this...

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Ugh I hope not. They gotta get MCI's and get out of this contract. NJT seems to be good at one thing and that's messing up a good thing.

DL Ecoshits will breakdown all the time because they are made like crap and ride like crap. Look at what Suffolk Transit is dealing with getting those crappy Phantoms in 2005, they're already beat to hell and letting passengers down time & time again and are left with putting 1999 Orion V's out, even the Clipper Buses if things are real bad. If NJT lets this contract go through 5 years from now they'll be dealing with shortages out Howell with all the Ecoshits out of service with problems. NJT has to get MCI to get the rest of this contract and they'll have buses out to NJT in no time. Only a sucker would stick with Designcrap after all this...

I agree with you 100 percent !

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Only a sucker would stick with Designcrap after all this...

 

Okay, so after going through a lot of threads, doing some research, I have to agree with you, but only to a certain point.  Designline ( NOT TO STICK UP FOR THEM ) was doing what they're name said, Design'ing' a new type of transportation that was more 'green' then what is available now.  As with all "NEW" products, there will be flaws and issues.  Those flaws and issues have been/are delt with on a one to one basis.  brake failure, fire, roll over ect all have a root cause and a corrective action.

 

I've been looking more at the "timeline" of the entire clsoing of Designline.  Something just does not make sense, but yet leads one to conculsions that may/maynot be far fetched.

 

Money was becoming a major issue for Designline.  Then, out of the clear blue, FOX leaves and goes to work for O-BAM-BAM-A as head of Transportation.  With in a weeks time, according to timeline of issues, the money pit backing pulled out of Designline.  Could it be associated with the brake failure, the fire or both?  Sure it could.  But reality states it was not. 

 

Think back to when ORION had a whole bunch of issues in the 07 series in Texas with the new charging system back in 07 and 08.  Did this cause them to close down?  Nope.  it was a new system and "bugs" had to be worked out.  How about the issue Orion had with NYC, and thoise were a on going thing.

 

Now think of the timeline again.  Fox leaves and backing goes away.  Personally I think politics played a huge part of it.  It's no secret that Fox had issues with other Board Members at Designline.

 

IMO, for what it's worth, I think once all the bugs are worked out with the new design of the Designline's, it will be just as good as any of the others.  I am sure that all the others, MCI, NewFlyer ect all had issues when a design was changed and something new was put in.  

 

To many un answered questions, time will tell.

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Well 7213 broke down on the Turnpike by 15E,ran the 139. Skipped my stop too, if it didn't I would've actually got on. Pax are evacuated.

What pieces of crap. Nice going NJT for getting in to this mess by wanting only 45 ft CNG's that nobody else could bid on at that time.

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What pieces of crap. Nice going NJT for getting in to this mess by wanting only 45 ft CNG's that nobody else could bid on at that time.

It's not the first time I've seen it happen either.

 

Designline was the only bidder because NJT wanted ridiculous specs that, if MCI got the order, would require them to basically reengineer the entire bus. They wanted a 40 foot turning radius in a 45 foot bus and extended range, among other things. The 45 foot spec isn't the reason they didn't bid, MCI made 1 or 2 D4500CT CNG demos way before that order. MCI could have bid it if they didn't spec things that would make it so they have to reengineer the bus.

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It's not the first time I've seen it happen either.

 

Designline was the only bidder because NJT wanted ridiculous specs that, if MCI got the order, would require them to basically reengineer the entire bus. They wanted a 40 foot turning radius in a 45 foot bus and extended range, among other things. The 45 foot spec isn't the reason they didn't bid, MCI made 1 or 2 D4500CT CNG demos way before that order. MCI could have bid it if they didn't spec things that would make it so they have to reengineer the bus.

I agree that's what I meant by nobody else could bid on them.

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This cng program is hitting them now. Get basic buses and be done with it, its costing an arm and a leg to ship that crap in. I wont even help out on Howell routes anymore not with all the shit going there with this dl saga.

It can only happen to NJT. It's like a bad soap opera. "As the stomach turns"

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This cng program is hitting them now. Get basic buses and be done with it, its costing an arm and a leg to ship that crap in. I wont even help out on Howell routes anymore not with all the shit going there with this dl saga.

Thing is, they could've spec'd a diesel order the same way, and for all we know they will with the next one and we could be seeing 1000+ diesel EcoCoaches. Hope the minds in Penn Plaza are sane by then.

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Thing is, they could've spec'd a diesel order the same way, and for all we know they will with the next one and we could be seeing 1000+ diesel EcoCoaches. Hope the minds in Penn Plaza are sane by then.

I doubt it. They cant even keep the ones they have running can you imagine 1500 of them.

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Well 7213 broke down on the Turnpike by 15E,ran the 139. Skipped my stop too, if it didn't I would've actually got on. Pax are evacuated.

 

I wonder how long they were standing out there, pretty cold today! Knowing NJT it could've been hours, since they never seem to want to stop buses passing by to pick these poor ppl up. :(

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 A Can that was opened is now overflowing with ...................

 

 

F B I  investigated Designline Over Use Of Used Parts

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/11/15/4469789/fbi-has-investigated-designline.html#.Uon0micZN9Q

 

 

 

The FBI has investigated Charlotte-based bus maker DesignLine in the past year over allegations related to used parts on new buses, an attorney representing creditors of the bankrupt company told the Observer on Friday.

The investigation is another blow for a company that once attracted investments from prominent Charlotte businesspeople and employed former Charlotte Mayor Anthony Foxx, now the U.S. secretary of transportation. The company filed for bankruptcy in August and laid off most of its workers.

FBI agents have interviewed former DesignLine employees about the used-parts issue in the past year, two sources familiar with the matter told the Observer. One source said the investigation is related to buses made before 2011.

 

Ain't This Interesting.  Read More using the link above.

 

 

 

 

 

Lynn Wilsonposted this comment......

 

And to top it off, Foxx supposedly was in charge of contacts, per the CO. Streetcars, airports, used parts masquerading as new...And he was the best Obama could come up with for Transportation Secretary.

 

Does this mean, if true, O-BAM-BAM-A will ask FOXX to remove himself from Transportation Secretary ?  I doubt it as they all are a bunch of crooks and liers.

 

 

 

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Without a doubt I've made it apparent in the past that I've been a supporter of DesignLine and their goals of bring new innovative products to the North American transit vehicle sector. With that said I'm going to try and refrain from excising bias on the proceeding breakdown. If you still believe otherwise than I'm not going to shift views at a an attempt of appeasement.

 

In summary, in regard to this situation I'm calling as I see it, nothing short of defamation, or in simpler terms, straight out bullshit.

 

Considering the situation between DesignLine and Foxx (the now Secretary of Transportation) it is arguable one could interpret it as a conflict of interest, however it's an interpretation that can easily be disproved. During the duration of Foxx's time at DesignLine he was employed in the corporate legal department as in in house attorney. From what is made apparent Foxx himself would have little to no incentive to falsify anything in regard to the records withstanding even if DesignLine was using used inventory, and furthermore the aforementioned records were likely handled by an individual or individuals in another independent department, and even then there would still be little incentive for the individuals to be falsifying any documents to the favor of DesignLine.

 

And in the event that a few used parts were used in the completion of vehicles sold, I am in doubt that the proportional amount is as large as investigators are making it out to be. More likely than not parts were improved on and perhaps rotated between other vehicles at times but this is nothing new to the transit bus industry or even the auto industry. To name a few comparative examples New Flyer acted similar when devolving the Xcelsior product line, Orion as well when improving on the same bus model (VII) through a generational update system, and the list goes on.

 

I suggest that others not view this as face value and evaluate the proceedings at a greater scope than what is being perpetuated by the press. After doing so I'm sure you will find the evaluations to be exaggerated to a minimal extent. That's all and thanks for your time.

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  • 4 months later...

Bump... I haven't seen a DL in service for a few months well.  I guess they all got pulled, someone please chime in.

Word, none on Bustime at all in months. I heard a rumor a while back over on Subchat that they were all put in the back of the lot together at Howell and MCI is taking them in exchange for the 76 bus contract, but you'd think MCI would take them after they started delivering buses...

 

That's probably why I've seen even more D4000s from even more depots than we already got on loan out lately.

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Last time I saw one was at the end of January.

 

Yeah 8286 is back at Howell along with some other 82XX D4000s. I'm still waiting for those 2014 CNG D4500CTs. Apparently they should start arriving between now and June 30th (Third quarter of 2014's fiscal year).

 

 

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Last time I saw one was at the end of January. Yeah 8286 is back at Howell along with some other 82XX D4000s. I'm still waiting for those 2014 CNG D4500CTs. Apparently they should start arriving between now and June 30th (Third quarter of 2014's fiscal year).Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not just those 8200s, there's more 76-7700s and even 8000s now.
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There's a whole slew of buses they received between December and January of D4000s and D4500s. Every now and then you'll see a Meadowlands or Wayne D4500CL out there. I saw 7152 one night on the 137, messed me up pretty hard on the street.

Still trying to get 7502 out on the Howell routes, that thing runs.

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I know one thing's for sure, those D4000s can't be sitting well with the Howell passengers. I took 8286 on the 139 and you'd be surprised how quickly the bus filled up. I felt like I was vacuum packed into a sardine can. Hopefully MCI sends this D4500CT pilot soon.

 

 

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I know one thing's for sure, those D4000s can't be sitting well with the Howell passengers. I took 8286 on the 139 and you'd be surprised how quickly the bus filled up. I felt like I was vacuum packed into a sardine can. Hopefully MCI sends this D4500CT pilot soon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not at all! I was at Newport last week for work and when I saw a D4000 pull up on a late 64H, them people were not happy.

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