Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 8, 2013 Share #201 Posted June 8, 2013 Look dude I'm not against you here I'm just saying these passengers need to stop their senseless belly-aching, I mean some of the stuff they complain about is just downright feeble. The lack of undercarriage I can understand now, some people don't want to lug all that shit on the bus. But the f---ing seat covers? I mean it's like these people have never set foot on the train. I never intended to put any words in your mouth, I was just making a comparison. Would MCI's be a good replacement? Yeah I'd love to see some D4500CT CNG's out there, but NJT didn't have the funds to buy them so they had to choose the cheaper option. Oh I know how the people down here can be trust me, and from the stories you've told about how they behave on the bus, you can tell that their spoiled. There's no question to that fact. But I don't think that the ECOCoach's lack of seat recline & undercompartment is gonna be enough to stop those people from taking NJ Transit altogether. Some of these people really rely on NJT even if they don't like the service(s) being provided. What's wrong with the ZF Ecolife? If NJT gets an emergency contract, where are they gonna get the buses to fill in? I don't think MTA has any extra MCIs they would be able to spare were this to happen. Shoot NJT would probably have to borrow some D4505's from CUSA or Peter Pan were something like that to happen. Maybe DL can improve on this bus. I mean only 5 of them are on property so far. Whose to say NJT isn't only running a few of them just to see how folks react to them. If you don't like some of the features on the bus, you should tell NJT. That way they can tell DesignLine what they can improve with the model. As for the seats, just tell NJT you don't like the vinyl ones and prefer the fabric ones back. Well this is Jersey, unfortunately for NJT the complaining and everything won't stop. Don't know how folks are up in Old Bridge, but the folks out in Marlboro/Manalapan were mad and said openly they refuse to get on it if it shows up, gonna be hard when 76 are here so they could end up losing monthly customers. And it's not that they don't have the money for MCIs, Designline responded to the bid and bid lower, by state law they had to win the contract. There's no NBQP program or anything like that at NJT to qualify new buses, so lowest bid gets it. Of course, if issues arise, they will be taken care of or the vendor risks losing the contract and legal action. I'm not too sure on the specifics on the Ecolife, but it does have some problems shifting for sure, apparently some of them refuse to reverse or something like that. The original 7101-7118 came from like Coach Canada or Greyhound Canada or something like that. They'll get buses if they're needed. I would imagine Designline doing their best to keep this order considering it might be their last hope. Obviously NJT is getting complaints, and hopefully they are being forwarded to Designline and they're working on how to improve the buses. Problem is, they might have to do a complete structural overhaul of the model to satisfy the customers, which might take too long, might not, then new units would have to be built and everything. It's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out, Designline is gonna be really put to the test. If they come out of this and make a successful bus, congratulations to them, and with MCI the only real big guys in the commuter coach game I wouldn't mind the competition so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted June 8, 2013 Share #202 Posted June 8, 2013 Well this is Jersey, unfortunately for NJT the complaining and everything won't stop. Don't know how folks are up in Old Bridge, but the folks out in Marlboro/Manalapan were mad and said openly they refuse to get on it if it shows up, gonna be hard when 76 are here so they could end up losing monthly customers. And it's not that they don't have the money for MCIs, Designline responded to the bid and bid lower, by state law they had to win the contract. There's no NBQP program or anything like that at NJT to qualify new buses, so lowest bid gets it. Of course, if issues arise, they will be taken care of or the vendor risks losing the contract and legal action. I'm not too sure on the specifics on the Ecolife, but it does have some problems shifting for sure, apparently some of them refuse to reverse or something like that. The original 7101-7118 came from like Coach Canada or Greyhound Canada or something like that. They'll get buses if they're needed. I would imagine Designline doing their best to keep this order considering it might be their last hope. Obviously NJT is getting complaints, and hopefully they are being forwarded to Designline and they're working on how to improve the buses. Problem is, they might have to do a complete structural overhaul of the model to satisfy the customers, which might take too long, might not, then new units would have to be built and everything. It's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out, Designline is gonna be really put to the test. If they come out of this and make a successful bus, congratulations to them, and with MCI the only real big guys in the commuter coach game I wouldn't mind the competition so much. Coach Canada and Greyhound Canada does not and never ran that model of MCI's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted June 8, 2013 Share #203 Posted June 8, 2013 Well then they're just gonna have to deal with it. NJT has no money to pay for new MCI's (even with an emergency contract, they'd still have to cough up the dough) Whining about a bus is pretty damn stupid (sounds like Chris Christie saying that) I know that sounds harsh, but which would they rather have? An old almost 15-year old bus (don't let the refurb fool you; those things are older than they look) that has a tank that's ready to go out the door any minute, seats less than '45 would, and no clever devices (volume up or not it still matters), or a brand spanking new bus that has different seat covers, lacks the ability to recline, and has no under carriage because let's face it, are you really that lazy to bring your friggen laptop on the bus that you need to put it underneath it where it'll get slid around and possibly broken? This is a blessing to people like that because: 1. They can catch up on work on the bus or watch a movie 2. It's better off with you on the bus because down there it could get broken. Those undercarriages aren't as secure as one may think. If they hate the damn bus so much they need to speak up about it. Plus just because a select group of rides don't like it, doesn't mean everybody does. The day I saw 7202 on the bridge, the person I was in the car with thought the DesignLine looked pretty damn comfortable. They need cut this constant bitching and complaining over some shit that's so feeble. "Oh boo-hoo the bus has train-styled seats I hate NJT" Seriously, NJT has already probably started looking around for replacements for the D4500's, if they go with DesignLine or MCI, chances are the bus is gonna spec'd to have those seats that is, if NJT takes the whine squad's complaints seriously and re-formats the seats to be fabric again. Seriously, it really pisses me off to see these spoiled ass passengers giving these drivers a hard time, and frankly I don't think it's all of the Howell riders that are acting like this. whenever I take the 139 out of Old Bridge, most of those people don't seem to have a single complaint in the world. I doubt the new seat style, lack of undercarriage, or reduced recline would even phase them at all. But yeah you gotta listen to what Cait said, even if they were to reject the buses due to complaints there would still be a problem and that would be getting buses to fill in those slots used by the CNG's. Emergency contract doesn't mean the minute MCI signs the contract the buses will magically appear. Yeah they may already have D4500CT's built (and if NJT were to get those, I hope they'd go with the frameless windows because those things would look slick as hell sporting NJT colors) but then there's the part where they have to fit them to be CNG (since that's what NJT wants) and that could take while because they'd have to take apart the diesel tank, and swap it with a CNG. Another thing I want to address here is the whole "Cummins ISL in a highway bus" issue. I don't see what the big deal about that is; The D4000H's have ISL's and I haven't heard any complaints about them. The problems such as seats and no luggage compartment are minor compared to the serious mechanical quirks this bus has. If it was an MCI with those seats no luggage compartment I wouldn't be complaining. Designline is an an UNPROVEN MANUFACTURER and this is an UNPROVEN COACH MODEL and Howell riders are the Guinea Pigs. NJT should be smarter than to test new bus designs on one of it's heaviest routes. As you've been hearing they are on the 67 alot because Howell dispatchers dont want these things on the 139. The serious flaws include not being to open the front door unless the wheel is straight, to having issues with backing up and the transmission. And it gets worse than that, one of their buses lost it's brakes in VA. http://www.arlnow.com/2013/06/03/art-bus-suffers-apparent-brake-malfunction-on-hill/ The 139 routes will be less reliable driving riders away to Academy and other options, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted June 8, 2013 Share #204 Posted June 8, 2013 You can not blame Designline for NJT mistakes as Designline built the buses to NJT specs as this was a custom design order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted June 8, 2013 Share #205 Posted June 8, 2013 You can not blame Designline for NJT mistakes as Designline built the buses to NJT specs as this was a custom design order. Yes the seats are definately on NJT, but the lack of a luggage compartment may have to do with the actual bus design. And the mechanical problems, that's all Designline. They are having problems in many other areas, and Veolia has even taken them to court over problems with the Charm City Circulator. http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/print-edition/2011/11/04/veolia-transportation-services-sues.html?page=all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 8, 2013 Share #206 Posted June 8, 2013 Coach Canada and Greyhound Canada does not and never ran that model of MCI's Not the D4500CTs (the current 7101-7118 which are MTA reject units), the original ones which were MCI 102-D3s with the coach-style door, more "long-distance" seating and I believe they came from some carrier up in Canada, could've sworn it was Greyhound or Coach. You can not blame Designline for NJT mistakes as Designline built the buses to NJT specs as this was a custom design order. The seats and powertrain specs are on NJT, the other stuff, not so much. The lack of the luggage compartment is a problem with the bus's structure, same with the door only opening if the wheel is straight. The seats not reclining also probably has to do more with Designline than it does NJT. Yes the seats are definately on NJT, but the lack of a luggage compartment may have to do with the actual bus design. And the mechanical problems, that's all Designline. They are having problems in many other areas, and Veolia has even taken them to court over problems with the Charm City Circulator. http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/print-edition/2011/11/04/veolia-transportation-services-sues.html?page=all Most of Designline's problems, including the problems in Baltimore and the MTA's demo units come from the sh*t turbine drive system they use on their transit models. The EcoCoach is actually using a traditional engine-transmission setup, so you won't see problems like those on the EcoCoaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted June 8, 2013 Share #207 Posted June 8, 2013 Not the D4500CTs (the current 7101-7118 which are MTA reject units), the original ones which were MCI 102-D3s with the coach-style door, more "long-distance" seating and I believe they came from some carrier up in Canada, could've sworn it was Greyhound or Coach. The seats and powertrain specs are on NJT, the other stuff, not so much. The lack of the luggage compartment is a problem with the bus's structure, same with the door only opening if the wheel is straight. The seats not reclining also probably has to do more with Designline than it does NJT. Most of Designline's problems, including the problems in Baltimore and the MTA's demo units come from the sh*t turbine drive system they use on their transit models. The EcoCoach is actually using a traditional engine-transmission setup, so you won't see problems like those on the EcoCoaches. Nope it was not Greyhound or Coach Canada (Trentway Wagar), they maybe Canadian rejects but not from them. NJT knew in the specs that Designline wasnt offering luggage compartments blame NJT again for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 8, 2013 Share #208 Posted June 8, 2013 Nope it was not Greyhound or Coach Canada (Trentway Wagar), they maybe Canadian rejects but not from them. NJT knew in the specs that Designline wasnt offering luggage compartments blame NJT again for that one. Then that's another bad move on NJT's part I guess. I'm surprised they wouldn't specify that in the RFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephantom Posted June 8, 2013 Share #209 Posted June 8, 2013 Just a few additional comments on the new CNG DesognLines:. I am speaking as someone who has actually been on 7202 and 7205, not someone who just drove by or saw the bus parked. It is easy to say that when you are driving by in your car, "oh, this bus looks really nice." It does, from the outside. The outside isnt the problem. The problem is when you go inside. While it is true all buses can feel bumpy, the issue here is that these buses are "brand new." I rode the MCI's when they were brand new(they are now 10 + years old) and when they were brand new, they were not like this. The Design Lines do not give a smooth ride at all. It is my opinion that the ride they give is even worse then the 10 + years old MCI's that we have. Not to mention, they have much worse pickup then the MCI's. This could extend a normal bus ride by as much as ten or 15 minutes. In reference to the package racks underneath the bus, I have used them. They are always used on the Route 9 corridor. This may not be the case on other lines were the buses go smaller distances, but on Route 9 they are very important. Passengers frequently go to Lakewood and switch for an ATlantic City Bus. The package racks under the bus are always used. This is bad that they have not been included. In reference to the seating, the inch recline is a problem. People try to sleep through a bus-ride that is often two hours. The use of vinyl seats as opposed to Fabric seats does give the bus a very dated 1980's look. When people are paying $300.00 to $400.00 dollars a month to ride a bus, there is no excuse for this. Even the MTA uses fabric seating in all of their new MCI's and Prevost buses. NJT doesnt even own any PRevost buses. The big issue with the lighting is that the lighting is not recessed. The lighting (I think they are LED's) are right on top of the passengers head, like they were in the old Eagle buses. If you are seated, you can raise your hand and touch them. When you pull in Old Bridge Park and Ride, AND THE light go on, you are totally blinded. I also noticed the flooring around the seating is raised off the main section of the floor. So, it is easier to trip or lose your balance when you are walking down the aisle, especially in the dark or with packages. NOt everything is bad. Air Conditioning is fantastic, and utilizes much stronger air blowers. The larger windows are nice. But overall, this bus represents a significant downgrade from an MCI bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted June 8, 2013 Share #210 Posted June 8, 2013 It wasnt the funds, DL was the lowest bidder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridgeviewer382 Posted June 8, 2013 Share #211 Posted June 8, 2013 O.K. I'm reading these posts and a lot of them state about seating. Is comfort people look up nowadays on new buses. If a bus can get you to you're destination, its fine. Yeah, these are coach buses, but all that matters at this point is the perfomance of these buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 9, 2013 Share #212 Posted June 9, 2013 O.K. I'm reading these posts and a lot of them state about seating. Is comfort people look up nowadays on new buses. If a bus can get you to you're destination, its fine. Yeah, these are coach buses, but all that matters at this point is the perfomance of these buses.Well the thing is, these are really long haul routes. They have MCIs with coach seats for a reason. Issue is they aren't performing very well right now according to what's being said by NJT employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted June 9, 2013 Share #213 Posted June 9, 2013 It would help if someone had some on board videos from these Designline "Eco Coaches" to get an idea of how these are. I'm curious to see how bad these are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 9, 2013 Share #214 Posted June 9, 2013 It would help if someone had some on board videos from these Designline "Eco Coaches" to get an idea of how these are. I'm curious to see how bad these are.I'm trying my best to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share #215 Posted June 12, 2013 7204 on the 64H. Shot it at Newport Mall in service on video. Sent from the Sixth Circle of Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 12, 2013 Share #216 Posted June 12, 2013 7204 on the 64H. Shot it at Newport Mall in service on video. Sent from the Sixth Circle of Hell. Now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share #217 Posted June 12, 2013 7204 on the 64H. Shot it at Newport Mall in service on video. Sent from the Sixth Circle of Hell. Now? 20 minutes ago. Should've left Grove Street by now. Sent from the Sixth Circle of Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 12, 2013 Share #218 Posted June 12, 2013 7204 on the 64H. Shot it at Newport Mall in service on video. Sent from the Sixth Circle of Hell. Thanks! And now presenting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcelsiorBoii4888 Posted June 12, 2013 Share #219 Posted June 12, 2013 That was too fast yoo! Great video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 12, 2013 Share #220 Posted June 12, 2013 That was too fast yoo! Great video! I literally uploaded that 5 minutes after I filmed it, that's right by my house. What can I say, I'm a fast guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share #221 Posted June 13, 2013 From earlier, if I can confirm the times again, expect an interior video to come soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted June 13, 2013 Share #222 Posted June 13, 2013 Pretty interesting to see them alot on the 67 and it's brethren, but I think we know what the theory is. The takeoff seemed pretty fast though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 13, 2013 Share #223 Posted June 13, 2013 Pretty interesting to see them alot on the 67 and it's brethren, but I think we know what the theory is. The takeoff seemed pretty fast though. Keeping them on the 67 to avoid pissing off riders due to its low ridership makes sense, but NOT the 64. The 64 is extremely busy, though by the time 7204 got to Craig Road it was nearly empty, not sure if it was people refusing to ride or the fact that there was a 64J in front of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 13, 2013 Share #224 Posted June 13, 2013 From earlier, if I can confirm the times again, expect an interior video to come soon. They seem to do different runs every day. I can never keep track of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcelsiorBoii4888 Posted June 13, 2013 Share #225 Posted June 13, 2013 I literally uploaded that 5 minutes after I filmed it, that's right by my house. What can I say, I'm a fast guy! I know lmaoo but he just told you it was on the 64H...and you found it just like that! Im suprised it doesnt have tinted windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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