The Schoolcar Experience

[tprashad0719]

What were the practical one? Yard posting? Why 6 people failed the 2nd part? Mistakes wise

[ErikNYC]

What were the practical one? Yard posting? Why 6 people failed the 2nd part? Mistakes wise

First practical is mainly cuts and adds. You instructor will go over what are automatic fails, and common failures. Most failed because of handbrakes and forgetting the steps.

[SubwayGuy]

Regarding leaving a track in the yard please remember the following. A LOT of people have been screwing this up and it could cause a split switch or derailment AND get your coworkers in the tower in trouble.

 

Train is ready to move, signal is red. "READY TO PROCEED on track XX"

Train is ready to move, signal is clear. "PERMISSION TO PROCEED ON CLEAR SIGNAL (# if required) on track XX"

 

DO NOT ASK FOR "PERMISSION" TO LEAVE A TRACK IN THE YARD IF THE JACK IS RED. People have been doing this and it can confuse new tower operators or dispatchers. Also, never leave a track in the yard if the jack is red. Ever.

Edited September 30, 2015 by SubwayGuy

[RTOMan]

Regarding leaving a track in the yard please remember the following. A LOT of people have been screwing this up and it could cause a split switch or derailment AND get your coworkers in the tower in trouble.

 

Train is ready to move, signal is red. "READY TO PROCEED on track XX"

Train is ready to move, signal is clear. "PERMISSION TO PROCEED ON CLEAR SIGNAL (# if required) on track XX"

 

DO NOT ASK FOR "PERMISSION" TO LEAVE A TRACK IN THE YARD IF THE JACK IS RED. People have been doing this and it can confuse new tower operators or dispatchers. Also, never leave a track in the yard if the jack is red. Ever.

Wow I mean this was a major issue back with new folks when I started in 2001..

 

What bugs me it's still going on now....

 

I just don't know what to say sigh...

Take your time, control your nerves, and try and be the first one to be called upon. Also, don't forget "permission to proceed".

 

Other than that it's everything you were taught over and over again, for the first practical. The second practical be may another thing, you might not get much practice... but I passed. We have a class of eight, and six people failed the second practical, they have another chance tomorrow.

Wow that's a bad ratio right there.

 

It's the simplest things down here (forgetting handbrakes) that can cost at least it's in those folks heads now...

Edited September 30, 2015 by RTOMan

[tprashad0719]

Train is ready to move, signal is red. "READY TO PROCEED on track XX"
Train is ready to move, signal is clear. "PERMISSION TO PROCEED ON CLEAR SIGNAL (# if required) on track XX"
 
ok so in this case if the signal is red your letting the tower know your ready to proceed

 

 

if the signal is clear ( no signs) your asking permission to the tower to proceed? and you will let them know the signal # and track# your on?

[PATCOman]

Another important thing about the first practical, safety chains, remember to take them down before cutting!

Here's a tip regarding a red signal in the yard.  Red and Ready both begin with an R.

[tprashad0719]

keep the tips comming Veteran members !

[SubwayGuy]

Train is ready to move, signal is red. "READY TO PROCEED on track XX"

Train is ready to move, signal is clear. "PERMISSION TO PROCEED ON CLEAR SIGNAL (# if required) on track XX"

 

ok so in this case if the signal is red your letting the tower know your ready to proceed

 

 

if the signal is clear ( no signs) your asking permission to the tower to proceed? and you will let them know the signal # and track# your on?

 

Yes. You are letting the tower know you are "ready" to proceed behind a red signal, so that they will establish your lineup and clear the signal.

 

Once your route is established and the signal is cleared, then you are telling the tower that you see the clear signal in the field, and are asking for "permission" to leave the track now that the signal is cleared.

 

You MUST always identify the track you are on when communicating with the tower, sometimes even more specifically (33 track head out vs. block, or Apple 12 track Coney Island end vs. Apple 12 track NY end). Sort of like you give call letters on the road, in the yard you give your track number to identify yourself since the tower cares where you are, not what your name is or your job since that would require them to look through the move to figure out what track you are on. Just give them your track.

 

Certain yards (such as Jamaica Yard) also require you to give the signal number you are behind, or sometimes even ask you your operating motor. Not all require this, so it's not going to be part of the procedure everywhere. Obviously if you're where you are supposed to be, this information is easy to find if asked for.

Edited September 30, 2015 by SubwayGuy

[WannabeTrainOp]

Regarding leaving a track in the yard please remember the following. A LOT of people have been screwing this up and it could cause a split switch or derailment AND get your coworkers in the tower in trouble.

 

Train is ready to move, signal is red. "READY TO PROCEED on track XX"

Train is ready to move, signal is clear. "PERMISSION TO PROCEED ON CLEAR SIGNAL (# if required) on track XX"

 

DO NOT ASK FOR "PERMISSION" TO LEAVE A TRACK IN THE YARD IF THE JACK IS RED. People have been doing this and it can confuse new tower operators or dispatchers. Also, never leave a track in the yard if the jack is red. Ever.

So I have a radio scanner and sometimes I park my car outside of train yards and listen to the chatter. From all I've heard I think it's best to phrase it as "XXX Tower, track XXX is ready for a lineup". That's if the little short leaving signal is red. Once it goes to yellow then you say "XXX Tower, permission to proceed on track XXX". I practice this all the time in the simulator I built in my basement and I've never had an accident, simulated or otherwise.

Edited October 26, 2015 by WannabeTrainOp

[SubwayGuy]

You have the gist of it down, but I caution any soon to be called outsiders or new hires who are using any simulators or video games (especially the teens obsessed with the damn BVE...that shit is not realistic at all, nor does it have any correlation to how you will do on the job) -  and that even includes the simulator at Livingston St. There is no substitute for doing it in the real world. Things can happen out here in the field, and you need to be ready. Stick to real world practice and reviewing the notes you get in schoolcar from your TSSs.

[Red5Xwing]

Since there's TWO signals tests now, will that actually help T/O's to NOT run signals at danger on the road?

[WestEndMan]

In my opinion, no. So many variables to overrunning signals. Not paying attention is one. There are the occasional signal flashes or track circuit problems. But from what I've seen, signal overruns usually come with speed. Not slowing down when you see a yellow. Thinking a timer will clear for you, and it doesn't. My thought when seeing a yellow or a yellow with a timer is exactly what the rule book & signal guide says "Proceed with caution, be prepared to STOP at the next signal. Or with timers, APPROACH AT THE ALLOWABLE speed and the signal or next signal will clear." Basically with timers, you know not to do the posted GT or ST. Always do less. A test does not affect the way you operate. Good judgment, common sense, and safe operation will keep you from overrunning signals and for that matter, station overruns.

[SubwayGuy]

There is a big issue (BIG) with new T/Os operating like hotshots. I've seen it, read some of the reports, and even experienced it firsthand riding other trains in the course of my days. There seems to be a mentality among many that yellow means next signal is red, fly up to it and stop. No. A red signal is not like a station stop. It's ok to creep and crawl when you pass yellows. A lot of newer people are concerned about being late or falling behind, yellows/reds is not where you make up time. If you're late, blame it on the train in front of you. You need a different mentality about that than the one you need about station stops. Lateness that falls on the crew is almost always a result of slow running (ie going 25 MPH with all green signals in front of you and no speed restriction) or bad station stops (long/drawn out/lots of braking and releasing) which is the T/O fault, or excessive station dwell time which is the C/R fault. Anything else is not your fault.

 

When you learn the lines you'll be able to tell for yourself when someone is being a cowboy.

 

Want to avoid signal overruns? Learn the handful of signals in each division that can really trip you up. Memorize them, and how the signals before them will look when they're red. Seriously, it's not that hard. It's only probably about 10 of them in each division. Hooligans in stations that are red but not preceded by two yellows (only one). Hidden reds that are hard to see. Reds that are very close to the yellow in front of them. Timers that clear WAY off from the posted speed.

 

Once you do that, just respect the yellows and you will be fine. Passed a yellow? OK to do 10 MPH until you see the next signal isn't red. That way, if it is, you can stop. Timers, until you know how they clear, approach at a controlled speed that allows you to stop between the yellow and the red. If you can't see the red, assume it's hidden behind a signal box 50 feet behind the yellow that you do see. Don't trust the signs, and always do lmuch less than what the sign says.

 

If you follow those 2 simple paragraphs you should never hit a signal. The definition won't save you in those cases, and that's where most new people go wrong. Book learning vs. practical. They are focusing on book learning however, because you still have people misinterpreting certain signals or unaware of the definition. I cringe every time I hear someone who isn't on the L line asking for permission at a call on...

Edited November 10, 2015 by SubwayGuy

[RTOMan]

There is a big issue (BIG) with new T/Os operating like hotshots. I've seen it, read some of the reports, and even experienced it firsthand riding other trains in the course of my days. There seems to be a mentality among many that yellow means next signal is red, fly up to it and stop. No. A red signal is not like a station stop. It's ok to creep and crawl when you pass yellows. A lot of newer people are concerned about being late or falling behind, yellows/reds is not where you make up time. If you're late, blame it on the train in front of you. You need a different mentality about that than the one you need about station stops. Lateness that falls on the crew is almost always a result of slow running (ie going 25 MPH with all green signals in front of you and no speed restriction) or bad station stops (long/drawn out/lots of braking and releasing) which is the T/O fault, or excessive station dwell time which is the C/R fault. Anything else is not your fault.

 

When you learn the lines you'll be able to tell for yourself when someone is being a cowboy.

 

Want to avoid signal overruns? Learn the handful of signals in each division that can really trip you up. Memorize them, and how the signals before them will look when they're red. Seriously, it's not that hard. It's only probably about 10 of them in each division. Hooligans in stations that are red but not preceded by two yellows (only one). Hidden reds that are hard to see. Reds that are very close to the yellow in front of them. Timers that clear WAY off from the posted speed.

 

Once you do that, just respect the yellows and you will be fine. Passed a yellow? OK to do 10 MPH until you see the next signal isn't red. That way, if it is, you can stop. Timers, until you know how they clear, approach at a controlled speed that allows you to stop between the yellow and the red. If you can't see the red, assume it's hidden behind a signal box 50 feet behind the yellow that you do see. Don't trust the signs, and always do lmuch less than what the sign says.

 

If you follow those 2 simple paragraphs you should never hit a signal. The definition won't save you in those cases, and that's where most new people go wrong. Book learning vs. practical. They are focusing on book learning however, because you still have people misinterpreting certain signals or unaware of the definition. I cringe every time I hear someone who isn't on the L line asking for permission at a call on...

 

 

 

Spot on Subway Guy I'm even seeing it on Facebook in groups also I seen it in posts of some New TOs. They won't get it until they are facing Ms Gibbs in Schoolcar and She's asking for that pass. They aren't playing down here. What's the rush anyway? Now that the might try to use ITRAC as a weapon to write up folks running hot too... Follow the rules and you can't go wrong.

Since there's TWO signals tests now, will that actually help T/O's to NOT run signals at danger on the road?

That's up to each individual you can ace both tests and still have a overrun.

[Andrew]

My BIGGEST problem with New people is how often the FAIL to truly learn the system and have NO clue of these 2 misstatements.

 

"Learn the area"

 

"a GREEN signal does NOT mean Full speed ahead in some areas"

 

The D and B trains leaving Bway Lafayette St on 4 track Northbound towards W4th street will encounter Automatic signals 931 and 938 which are green then they go around the curve to the right and they encounter Automatic signal 947......IF 947 is YELLOW and you are not going 25MPH and you fail to begin braking immediately, you WILL 100% definitely overrun 32 Home Signal which will be RED over RED and that could be your career in Transit right there!!! The thing you MUST do is have your train Under control when you pass 941 Automatic which is right before the curve to the right, ignore the GREEN aspect, it means NOTHING there, you MUST have your train under control by 947 Automatic if it is yellow.

 

Remember, there is ALWAYS a home ball BEFORE a switch but there is NOT always a switch AFTER a Homeball.....but the the end result is the SAME if you overrun then while they are RED over RED.

 

You see a GREEN RESUME Flagging signal and most people believe this means "Resume Full Speed"...........NOPE!!!!!

 

a GREEN Flag has a different meaning to me....."A green Resume flag represents the end of the particular work zone I just operated through"

 

On the Midnights, you will see "piggybacking" work zones, which is one work zone after another, the Green Resume will be the end of the work zone and in another 200 feet you will have a set of Yellows for the NEXT work zone, and so on...........

 

You leave Briarwood Van Wyck Northbound on the F and you go over the switch to the right and before the curve, you see a "30 miles" sign, but you choose to ignore it.....well IF you do so, when you see a Yellow signal and you are speeding, GUESS WHAT!!!!??? You WILL overrun the next signal which WILL be red AND since it is not on Grade Time a RED automatic means there is a train in front of it which is considered a Collison and will be treated that much more seriously.

 

And then there is 434 Home signal on the R train Northbound from 59th street and Lexington Ave. Assuming you did NOT take a Wrong Lineup into Queensborough Plaza. When you go around the curve to the left as you are going towards Queens Plaza, be sure to have your train under control because you WILL hit 434 Home signal, which is one of the most overrun signals in the system.

 

There is a LOT to learn for NEW T/Os and it takes a few YEARS...........you new people just FORGET about being on time,it  will come eventually. There are some EXTREMLY slow T/Os and no matter what anyone has told you, you cannot and will not be taken Out Of Service if you are slow.

 

I am not saying to go 20MPH and be 30 minutes late every trip....not at all.

 

But when you rush and try to make up time, this is when you end up making mistakes that can cost you your career down here.

 

My school car instructor, Joe Bauer who is now retired always told us "You get paid by the minute" and it is true........there is no need to rush and create stress and problems for yourself.

[Red5Xwing]

Spot on Subway Guy I'm even seeing it on Facebook in groups also I seen it in posts of some New TOs. They won't get it until they are facing Ms Gibbs in Schoolcar and She's asking for that pass. They aren't playing down here. What's the rush anyway? Now that the might try to use ITRAC as a weapon to write up folks running hot too... Follow the rules and you can't go wrong.

 

That's up to each individual you can ace both tests and still have a overrun.

Hmm...well I had hoped that the new extra test might actually HELP. It all comes down to paying attention out there like you said.

[Red5Xwing]

In my opinion, no. So many variables to overrunning signals. Not paying attention is one. There are the occasional signal flashes or track circuit problems. But from what I've seen, signal overruns usually come with speed. Not slowing down when you see a yellow. Thinking a timer will clear for you, and it doesn't. My thought when seeing a yellow or a yellow with a timer is exactly what the rule book & signal guide says "Proceed with caution, be prepared to STOP at the next signal. Or with timers, APPROACH AT THE ALLOWABLE speed and the signal or next signal will clear." Basically with timers, you know not to do the posted GT or ST. Always do less. A test does not affect the way you operate. Good judgment, common sense, and safe operation will keep you from overrunning signals and for that matter, station overruns.

AMEN brutha!! I didn't stay in schoolcar long enough to really know if TWO signals exams would matter. To me it's just an extra way to be sent to 130 Livingston if you fail the second one (which you probably shouldn't), but at the end of the day paying attention and using commom sense is what really keeps you out of trouble most times.

[ErikNYC]

Hmm...well I had hoped that the new extra test might actually HELP. It all comes down to paying attention out there like you said.

Hopefully with that extra test people will stop asking for permission when they encounter a call on, and so on.

[RTOMan]

Hopefully with that extra test people will stop asking for permission when they encounter a call on, and so on.

Erik that's becoming a running joke down here sadly...

 

At least once a day I'm hearing a story about that or hearing it on the radio...

 

Sigh...

[Red5Xwing]

Hopefully with that extra test people will stop asking for permission when they encounter a call on, and so on.

Really?...Wow. I failed the signals exam myself so I'm not trying to poke fun...but still wow.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Red5Xwing

[ErikNYC]

Erik that's becoming a running joke down here sadly...

 

At least once a day I'm hearing a story about that or hearing it on the radio...

 

Sigh...

I know I keep hearing about it. I heard it the reason we now have to take two test.

 

Even the dispatcher reminded me about call-on's when i first met her. I said yes i know... She said okay... "that's what they all say". lol

 

I took on two call-on's, laying up a train last night to get into a relay position, and multiple call-ons last week while laying up train at 137th St yard. Combine that with my instructor TSS James and Albanese drilling us to death, I should never forget how to take on a call-on..

 

 

I also hear that people ask for permission when they encounter an AK signal, and iirc at Corona yard they added an AK plate to an automatic signal to remind TO's that they can key buy automatics on a yard lead.

Really?...Wow. I failed the signals exam myself so I'm not trying to poke fun...but still wow.

Yea, I'm not trying to make fun of anyone. If the added pressure at times, you never know what goes on in peoples head at any moment. I hope and plan to stay with my "nose in the books", as Motor Instructor Albanese would say.

Edited November 12, 2015 by ErikNYC

[SubwayGuy]

Hmm...well I had hoped that the new extra test might actually HELP. It all comes down to paying attention out there like you said.

 

It doesn't help because people assume. "I saw the yellow, I know what it means (proceeds to repeat entire definition word for word)...I slowed down, I just DIDN'T SEE THE RED UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE!" is a common thing to hear.

 

What does Transit hear?

 

"I saw the yellow, I know what it means but I failed to comply with it since even though I slowed down, my train was not under control. I then ran the next signal I was supposed to be prepared to stop at because I didn't have my train at a safe enough speed to react to it safely upon seeing it."

 

End result? Charges, and lots of them: BIE-signal overrun, collision (if signal was red due to a train in front), improper train speed (if signal was red due to failing to clear a timer), improper operation, poor train control. If it's a home signal add Near Miss incident, and if the homeball was protecting a switch set against you, you can expect to also be charged for a switch run through regardless of whether or not you actually fouled the switch.

 

That's just the way it is down here. New people need to understand the mentality here is always COVER YOUR ASS.

Edited November 13, 2015 by SubwayGuy

[Red5Xwing]

It doesn't help because people assume. "I saw the yellow, I know what it means (proceeds to repeat entire definition word for word)...I slowed down, I just DIDN'T SEE THE RED UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE!" is a common thing to hear.

 

What does Transit hear?

 

"I saw the yellow, I know what it means but I failed to comply with it since even though I slowed down, my train was not under control. I then ran the next signal I was supposed to be prepared to stop at because I didn't have my train at a safe enough speed to react to it safely upon seeing it."

 

End result? Charges, and lots of them: BIE-signal overrun, collision (if signal was red due to a train in front), improper train speed (if signal was red due to failing to clear a timer), improper operation, poor train control. If it's a home signal add Near Miss incident, and if the homeball was protecting a switch set against you, you can expect to also be charged for a switch run through regardless of whether or not you actually fouled the switch.

 

That's just the way it is down here. New people need to understand the mentality here is always COVER YOUR ASS.

Woah.....I guess knowledge and experience is key, and CYA too! As one of the TSS's said at PS248..."Welcome to Transit!"

[bkdirect]

Where do you find the staff lounge?

[Red5Xwing]

I know I keep hearing about it. I heard it the reason we now have to take two test.

 

Even the dispatcher reminded me about call-on's when i first met her. I said yes i know... She said okay... "that's what they all say". lol

 

I took on two call-on's, laying up a train last night to get into a relay position, and multiple call-ons last week while laying up train at 137th St yard. Combine that with my instructor TSS James and Albanese drilling us to death, I should never forget how to take on a call-on..

 

 

I also hear that people ask for permission when they encounter an AK signal, and iirc at Corona yard they added an AK plate to an automatic signal to remind TO's that they can key buy automatics on a yard lead.

 

Yea, I'm not trying to make fun of anyone. If the added pressure at times, you never know what goes on in peoples head at any moment. I hope and plan to stay with my "nose in the books", as Motor Instructor Albanese would say.

....If I could get back into schoolcar, I'd put my WHOLE dang BODY in the books????????!! As I mentioned to another poster, NOBODY should want to experience what it's like to have it all end at 248, when the Superintendent calls you into his office(????????) to tell you that you're done...it SUX!! I maintained my outward composure after the bad news, but inwardly I was like????????????????????????????????????????????????...lol. Edited November 13, 2015 by Red5Xwing