L train to bay ridge?

[Roadcruiser1]

Look the reason why such a line would exist is because it would allow transferring to every single line that runs to Manhattan. You wouldn't have to go to Manhattan. Here is where such a service would offer transfers to:

 

-The majority of the Canarsie Line

-Flatbush Avenue-Brooklyn College

-Avenue H

-Avenue I

-62nd Street

-Fort Hamilton Parkway

-8th Avenue

-59th Street

 

Provisions could be made for a future tunnel to Staten Island. The tunnel heads would be aimed for there and would be linked to the Fourth Avenue Line.

[Vistausss]

how can a yard own something...?

 

and CSX owns Oak Point, so...

 

 

Well, someone who works for CSX said that the yardmaster of Oak Point is the owner so...

[qjtransitmaster]

Doesn't matter. Let's stop that now and talk about Bay Ridge again. Not SI. Not Triboro. Just Bay Ridge as it is and a possible realistic connection (e.g. to the or the Sea Beach).

 

As a phase 1 yes and a ferry could be a good stopgap until a tunnel becomes possible. But short term yes the bay ridge brnch should be timed with a ferry to St george which will be timed with the SIR. But I would make phase 1 be LIRR bay ridge reactivation.

Wait for it...

 

 

 

Ok fine, I'll "be mature"...

 

Other than the tremendous cost of building such a line, lets look at it like this...

 

1. who would actually benefit from a line from Staten Island all the way to Jackson Heights? Its like you threw a dart at two random stops on a map and decided to run with that.Several points in between will have easier access to SI and travel between the in between points will become faster and more direct decreasing many outerborough travelers' travel times.

 

2. Even if such a line was built, do you know how long said line would be? You're going through Staten Island, through Brooklyn, then halfway through Queens. I mean im no expert at subway travel times but it seems like said line would take almost 2 hours. Dude the is also 2 hours. But this line may be less but you have a point.

 

3. The biggest obstacle you would face is traversing New York Bay. That's pretty much a mile right there at least (given the VZ bridge is a little more than a mile long). And don't even bring up "hurr durr lets run the train over the bridge." We all know that's gonna be impossible given the current grade of the approaches.

 

3a. The cost of a whole new bridge would be through the roof...and a tunnel price isn't that far behind.

True the bridge is less practical though.

So there you go. Was that mature enough for you or should I break out a dictionary and throw some big words in there...

 

Ok want to know who will benefit ok I will tell you it offers a 2 seat ride to JFK by using this line to the easier access to jamacia via transfer for SI folks. A 2 seat rail ride to LI via transfer to LIRR at broadway jct.

 

Businesses around SIR will have increased patronage from brooklyn visitors. Those on the north shore will have a fast ride to brooklyn via transferring at st george access to major destinations in brooklyn in the heart like flatbush and access to other subway lines in brooklyn from SI without the slow S53.

 

Easier access from brooklyn to queens and LGA via bus connection.

 

Property values along SIR will increase due to access to other boroughs and less cars on the belt cause the belt is way out of the way of trip generators in brooklyn as this rail line will be direct to the point drastic reduction in travel times from SI to other parts of the city. The line will have a higher farebox recovery ratio in long term as it won't be free to go to brooklyn and beyond. Easier access to jobs in brooklyn and even SI via st george transfer point. Ridership on SI buses will skyrocket forcing LTDs to run full-time. Access to malls in queens directly from central brooklyn and easier access to connecting lines creating more travel possibilities.

[Roadcruiser1]

As a phase 1 yes and a ferry could be a good stopgap until a tunnel becomes possible. But short term yes the bay ridge brnch should be timed with a ferry to St george which will be timed with the SIR. But I would make phase 1 be LIRR bay ridge reactivation.

Ok want to know who will benefit ok I will tell you it offers a 2 seat ride to JFK by using this line to the easier access to jamacia via transfer for SI folks. A 2 seat rail ride to LI via transfer to LIRR at broadway jct.

 

Businesses around SIR will have increased patronage from brooklyn visitors. Those on the north shore will have a fast ride to brooklyn via transferring at st george access to major destinations in brooklyn in the heart like flatbush and access to other subway lines in brooklyn from SI without the slow S53.

 

Easier access from brooklyn to queens and LGA via bus connection.

 

Property values along SIR will increase due to access to other boroughs and less cars on the belt cause the belt is way out of the way of trip generators in brooklyn as this rail line will be direct to the point drastic reduction in travel times from SI to other parts of the city. The line will have a higher farebox recovery ratio in long term as it won't be free to go to brooklyn and beyond. Easier access to jobs in brooklyn and even SI via st george transfer point. Ridership on SI buses will skyrocket forcing LTDs to run full-time. Access to malls in queens directly from central brooklyn and easier access to connecting lines creating more travel possibilities.

 

 

I already told you. The section north of the Canarsie Line no longer belongs to the . It belongs to CSX. It has to merge with the Canarsie Line unless if it is bought from CSX, and I don't think CSX will do that since it's part of the important Northeast Corridor.

[CenSin]

I already told you. The section north of the Canarsie Line no longer belongs to the . It belongs to CSX. It has to merge with the Canarsie Line unless if it is bought from CSX, and I don't think CSX will do that since it's part of the important Northeast Corridor.

 

The track or the entire width of the right-of-way?

[Roadcruiser1]

The track or the entire width of the right-of-way?

 

 

The ROW.

[Vistausss]

The ROW.

 

 

Well, CSX doesn't seem to be using it as much as you think.

 

"Under today's operations we have trackage that I guess considered "no man's land", it is not listed in the timetable nor is it

listed anywhere else in some cases. The trackage over Hell Gate Bridge is in day use by a yard job out of Oak Point to

Fremont to interchange with the New York and Atlantic."

"After Amtrak took over the NEC and Market Tower (SS-4 in the NHRR days) was closed, control passed to the yardmaster at

Oak Point and no block system was in use after that time."

[bobtehpanda]

The MTA could also negotiate with CSX to use its right of way instead of buying it outright. Although given the various times CSX has given transit agencies around the nation a hard time, it's not a particularly attractive option, and it'd probably be easier to buy the ROW.

 

That being said, the Bay Ridge branch should probably be a separate subway line, partially because I don't believe such a service would require the headways that an L extension would require, and because there wouldn't be that many people riding the line east, only to go back west on the L.

 

It could probably be run every 10 or 15 minutes with 4 cars (at least initially, because there's no easy way to tell how much demand the existence of such a line would create)

[kingal11234]

@Fresh Pond: Quit that Triboro RX, we're only talking Bay Ridge here which goes through Flatlands. Triboro is a good idea but that won't see the light for another 30 years or so. Now Bay Ridge, the line this topic is about, could happen.

 

Why should he not talk about the Rx plan? Someone else bought it up and he was simply responding. The triboro plan runs along the bay ridge branch so if the L were extended the triboro would probably never be built and if the Triboro RX is built than the L

Wait for it...

 

 

 

Ok fine, I'll "be mature"...

 

Other than the tremendous cost of building such a line, lets look at it like this...

 

1. who would actually benefit from a line from Staten Island all the way to Jackson Heights? Its like you threw a dart at two random stops on a map and decided to run with that.

 

2. Even if such a line was built, do you know how long said line would be? You're going through Staten Island, through Brooklyn, then halfway through Queens. I mean im no expert at subway travel times but it seems like said line would take almost 2 hours.

 

3. The biggest obstacle you would face is traversing New York Bay. That's pretty much a mile right there at least (given the VZ bridge is a little more than a mile long). And don't even bring up "hurr durr lets run the train over the bridge." We all know that's gonna be impossible given the current grade of the approaches.

 

3a. The cost of a whole new bridge would be through the roof...and a tunnel price isn't that far behind.

 

So there you go. Was that mature enough for you or should I break out a dictionary and throw some big words in there...

 

[Threxx]

Doesn't matter. Let's stop that now and talk about Bay Ridge again. Not SI. Not Triboro. Just Bay Ridge as it is and a possible realistic connection (e.g. to the or the Sea Beach).

 

 

Do you own the thread? He was replying to the post.

 

And it isn't a realistic connection. There is no reason to leave Canarsie without a proper subway connection. And no "eh, extend the B42". Where would it terminate? What about all the other routes around Rockaway Parkway? It's not going to happen. Let's just put it frankly.

 

Also, much of the branch is 1 track, and only has space for two... it would be a PITA to convert to subway service.

[kingal11234]

Sorry for the mistake I meant to continue on by saying if the L would not be extended if the Triboro is built. So it makes sense for one to state their preference if any. I started this thread as way to discuss the lack of train service in Flatlands and nearby areas,as well as addressing the lack of connections(in BK) to the L train. I had heard of and read about the Triboro RX line so many times on this forum and others, but read little about proposals to extend the L other than the fact that it was considered. I wanted to discuss the whether or not this could be done, the pros and cons of doing so,and to discuss which would be better,as well as whether a line should be built there at all. SO ALL IDEAS ARE WELCOMED TO BE DISCUSSED. To me it seems like the X line would better improve transit in the long term, but that the L ext would have more probability of being built given the financial constraints the MTA,and the City has now and for the near future.

[Roadcruiser1]

Sorry for the mistake I meant to continue on by saying if the L would not be extended if the Triboro is built. So it makes sense for one to state their preference if any. I started this thread as way to discuss the lack of train service in Flatlands and nearby areas,as well as addressing the lack of connections(in BK) to the L train. I had heard of and read about the Triboro RX line so many times on this forum and others, but read little about proposals to extend the L other than the fact that it was considered. I wanted to discuss the whether or not this could be done, the pros and cons of doing so,and to discuss which would be better,as well as whether a line should be built there at all. SO ALL IDEAS ARE WELCOMED TO BE DISCUSSED. To me it seems like the X line would better improve transit in the long term, but that the L ext would have more probability of being built given the financial constraints the MTA,and the City has now and for the near future.

 

 

The can't be extended. Do you look back at posts before you post? You can't just leave the neighborhood of Canarsie with no subway service. A new service running on the Canarsie Line would have to serve such a proposal like a train for example. It isn't going to be the . Plus the Triboro RX will not happen, because the doesn't own the ROW north of the Canarsie Line. So that means the (X) line is nothing more than a BS proposal that will probably never come to life.

[kingal11234]

Do you own the thread? He was replying to the post.

 

And it isn't a realistic connection. There is no reason to leave Canarsie without a proper subway connection. And no "eh, extend the B42". Where would it terminate? What about all the other routes around Rockaway Parkway? It's not going to happen. Let's just put it frankly.

 

Also, much of the branch is 1 track, and only has space for two... it would be a PITA to convert to subway service.

 

Do you own the thread? He was replying to the post.

 

And it isn't a realistic connection. There is no reason to leave Canarsie without a proper subway connection. And no "eh, extend the B42". Where would it terminate? What about all the other routes around Rockaway Parkway? It's not going to happen. Let's just put it frankly.

 

Also, much of the branch is 1 track, and only has space for two... it would be a PITA to convert to subway service.

 

The Bay Ridge Branch has space for more than two tracks trust me I pass through it every day. If need be they would only have to build a little bit under the street. By the way an L extension would have 3 more stops in Canarsie at Rockway ave,Remsen ave and Ralph ave.

[Kamen Rider]

Plus the Triboro RX will not happen, because the doesn't own the ROW north of the Canarsie Line. So that means the (X) line is nothing more than a BS proposal that will probably never come to life.

 

 

The MTA owns it to Freemont Junction, At Fresh Pond.

 

 

Well, CSX doesn't seem to be using it as much as you think.

 

"Under today's operations we have trackage that I guess considered "no man's land", it is not listed in the timetable nor is it

listed anywhere else in some cases. The trackage over Hell Gate Bridge is in day use by a yard job out of Oak Point to

Fremont to interchange with the New York and Atlantic."

"After Amtrak took over the NEC and Market Tower (SS-4 in the NHRR days) was closed, control passed to the yardmaster at

Oak Point and no block system was in use after that time."

 

 

I think I figure out your confusion about "ownership", Control in this context refers to the Oak Point Yardmaster overseeing and directing traffic on the line, he doesn't own it.

[kingal11234]

The can't be extended. Do you look back at posts before you post? You can't just leave the neighborhood of Canarsie with no subway service. A new service running on the Canarsie Line would have to serve such a proposal like a train for example. It isn't going to be the . Plus the Triboro RX will not happen, because the doesn't own the ROW north of the Canarsie Line. So that means the (X) line is nothing more than a BS proposal that will probably never come to life.

 

The can't be extended. Do you look back at posts before you post? You can't just leave the neighborhood of Canarsie with no subway service. A new service running on the Canarsie Line would have to serve such a proposal like a train for example. It isn't going to be the . Plus the Triboro RX will not happen, because the doesn't own the ROW north of the Canarsie Line. So that means the (X) line is nothing more than a BS proposal that will probably never come to life.

 

Nobody was proposing leaving Canarsie with no service. As just said the L train would serve Canarsie with 3 more additional stops,and the proposal was to have the L perform the same way the A does with more than one terminal. A K train is not a bad idea but is no different from what im proposing but just giving it another name.

[Roadcruiser1]

Nobody was proposing leaving Canarsie with no service. As just said the L train would serve Canarsie with 3 more additional stops,and the proposal was to have the L perform the same way the A does with more than one terminal. A K train is not a bad idea but is no different from what im proposing but just giving it another name.

 

 

You still don't look back. Giving the two terminals will cause traffic problems. That is why you are looking so idiotic right now. Look back at what everyone posted, and you would find your answer.

[itmaybeokay]

Plus the Triboro RX will not happen, because the doesn't own the ROW north of the Canarsie Line. So that means the (X) line is nothing more than a BS proposal that will probably never come to life.

 

 

I mean, to be fair I agree that the RX probably won't happen anytime soon, but I'm not sure it's fair to call it a BS proposal. It did come from like, an actual infrastructure planning group, and isn't born of foam and IND second system wet dreams.

 

Also, the MTA does have state authority, and can eminent domain rights to the ROW a lot easier than it can eminent domain properties it did for SAS...

 

So is it unlikely? Sure. But it's not just a BS proposal.

[Art Vandelay]

The 1970s plan was for the L to split at around Livonia into two branches. Neither of them would be the current Canarsie line. The line towards Bay Ridge still would serve Canarsie, just with a different station, two blocks away.

 

The L would have no problem with two terminals. The outer end of the line has rather low ridership, and splitting it into two branches would actually make for capacity matching the loads more closely.

[kingal11234]

You still don't look back. Giving the two terminals will cause traffic problems. That is why you are looking so idiotic right now. Look back at what everyone posted, and you would find your answer.

 

You still have not explained why your K train proposal would be any different. And talking about BS proposals;You were the same person who once suggested building light rail along the path. You also suggested like an idiot to extend Long Island Railroad down to SI using the Bay Ridge Branch, so i would be careful about telling other people their ideas are idiotic

[Kamen Rider]

Just becuase it came from an infrastucture planing group doesn't mean it's not stupid. Most of these planing groups are trying to force modern transportation concepts on a 150 year old plus network.

 

One such person, who claimed to be an "expert", once complain about the fact that Penn Station and Grand Central were not next to each other, and that it was poor planing to build them where they did.

 

The problem I'm seeing is that people seem to have a hard time thinking outside the box at all. Why does this line need to be part of the L? why does it need to be part of the subway at all?

 

Why can't it be like this?

 

 

Whipped this up quick, I call it Project "3R", for "Rapid Regional Railroad". FRA railroad grade equipment running at rapid transit levels of service. trains that already use the lines would see no change, the only "built new" section would be the yellow and orange lines skirting the race track to lefferts blvd airtrain.

 

Why not something like that? Something orginal. I mean, I've been doing this for 8 years now and I can't count the number of times people have come along with a "super new cool idea", only to find out someone already brought it up, sometimes more than once.

[qjtransitmaster]

Just becuase it came from an infrastucture planing group doesn't mean it's not stupid. Most of these planing groups are trying to force modern transportation concepts on a 150 year old plus network.

 

One such person, who claimed to be an "expert", once complain about the fact that Penn Station and Grand Central were not next to each other, and that it was poor planing to build them where they did.

 

The problem I'm seeing is that people seem to have a hard time thinking outside the box at all. Why does this line need to be part of the L? why does it need to be part of the subway at all?

 

Why can't it be like this?

 

 

Whipped this up quick, I call it Project "3R", for "Rapid Regional Railroad". FRA railroad grade equipment running at rapid transit levels of service. trains that already use the lines would see no change, the only "built new" section would be the yellow and orange lines skirting the race track to lefferts blvd airtrain.

 

Why not something like that? Something orginal. I mean, I've been doing this for 8 years now and I can't count the number of times people have come along with a "super new cool idea", only to find out someone already brought it up, sometimes more than once.

 

QJT salutes you for your intelligence.

[itmaybeokay]

Oh, good god, it shouldn't be part of the L. I didn't mean to give the impression that it should, I was just talking about using the bay ridge branch ROW.

[Brooklyn]

Just becuase it came from an infrastucture planing group doesn't mean it's not stupid. Most of these planing groups are trying to force modern transportation concepts on a 150 year old plus network.

 

One such person, who claimed to be an "expert", once complain about the fact that Penn Station and Grand Central were not next to each other, and that it was poor planing to build them where they did.

 

The problem I'm seeing is that people seem to have a hard time thinking outside the box at all. Why does this line need to be part of the L? why does it need to be part of the subway at all?

 

Why can't it be like this?

 

Whipped this up quick, I call it Project "3R", for "Rapid Regional Railroad". FRA railroad grade equipment running at rapid transit levels of service. trains that already use the lines would see no change, the only "built new" section would be the yellow and orange lines skirting the race track to lefferts blvd airtrain.

 

Why not something like that? Something orginal. I mean, I've been doing this for 8 years now and I can't count the number of times people have come along with a "super new cool idea", only to find out someone already brought it up, sometimes more than once.

 

 

I agree....When I traveled to Paris, I was fascinated by the RER....that's an excellent system--it's kind of like Metro North but doubles as a subway within city limits.

 

I like the idea, especially the blue line. I actually had your red line (instead of going to the Bronx) curving east to LGA. So would the yellow line--it would link together the two city airports.

 

I like the idea of something independent of the rest of the subway system (like the RER)--I agree, we need to think outside the box.

 

To complete this, I would add a means of getting into Manhattan: maybe the yellow and/or green lines can do this.

 

An excellent idea, though.

[TwoTimer]

Umm the whole ”it must be part of the existing subway and/or ” was so there wouldnt be any extra fare charged, just a simple free uncoded transfer not unlike the many other transfers in the system. The pure railroad option (think: PATH) was always there, people just didnt like the idea of using the encoded transfer or paying extra funds just to go around the city.

[Kamen Rider]

Ahem, SIR? uses the same fare system but is not a de jure part of the subway...