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L train to bay ridge?


kingal11234

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Ahem, SIR? uses the same fare system but is not a de jure part of the subway...

 

 

Guess you don't know what makes SIR so different? Well, let me tell you. It ISN'T CONNECTED. Bay Ridge could be easily connected to the (L) and even if they'll choose not to then it still is only a few blocks away. Not unlike SIR which is on a separate island many miles apart from the nearest subway.

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Guess you don't know what makes SIR so different? Well, let me tell you. It ISN'T CONNECTED. Bay Ridge could be easily connected to the (L) and even if they'll choose not to then it still is only a few blocks away. Not unlike SIR which is on a separate island many miles apart from the nearest subway.

 

 

guess you really don't get the point I was trying to make at all...

 

SIRTOA is physicicly seperate, and a distinct enity from the subway, but it still part of the subway's fare system. A paid subway fare gets you through the St. Georige turnstyles, likewise a paid fare on SI gets you onto the subway

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I'd argue the fare problem is a non-issue. PATH and SIR both use metrocards, SIR even uses the NYCT fare system, with unlimiteds valid on both.

 

If you ask me the biggest problem with making the RX or Bay Ridge RR or whatever we're calling it a separate railroad is that it could not share any facilities with the subway. The "No new construction" argument is largely invalid because were a train to use existing tracks on the Bay Ridge branch and then existing subway tracks, the required track connection would subsequently subject the ENTIRE new york city subway to FRA oversight. The whole thing would have to be a federally-compliant railroad, because it would connect via carfloat and the hell gate bridge to the national rail network, yada yada yada, interstate commerce clause, federal oversight.

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where is is writtent that sharing anything with the subway is a requirment?

 

Why does everything need to be built upon what already exists?

 

Your "biggest problem" is a disjoined one.

 

It's not againtis the rules if the system was seperate but still part of the network.

 

The primary reason subways are seperate from railroads today is the United States Railroad Adminsitartion duing the first World War, the government took over all the railroads for the duration. At this point, there was no clear cut line between railroads and subways. LIRR trains used the Broadway-Brooklyn line to go to chambers street and BRT trains ran to the Rockaways. Becuase the government didn't want to go into the local transit business, transit compaines were forbaid form runing on railroad tracks. From there diffrent safty standards arose, and diffrent operating regulations. But they don't forbid one owning the other.

 

NYCTA owns a railroad, the South Brooklyn. and when the MTA got it's hands on SIR, it was still connected to the mainline freight network.

 

.

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  • 8 months later...

where is is writtent that sharing anything with the subway is a requirment?

 

Why does everything need to be built upon what already exists?

 

Your "biggest problem" is a disjoined one.

 

It's not againtis the rules if the system was seperate but still part of the network.

 

The primary reason subways are seperate from railroads today is the United States Railroad Adminsitartion duing the first World War, the government took over all the railroads for the duration. At this point, there was no clear cut line between railroads and subways. LIRR trains used the Broadway-Brooklyn line to go to chambers street and BRT trains ran to the Rockaways. Becuase the government didn't want to go into the local transit business, transit compaines were forbaid form runing on railroad tracks. From there diffrent safty standards arose, and diffrent operating regulations. But they don't forbid one owning the other.

 

NYCTA owns a railroad, the South Brooklyn. and when the MTA got it's hands on SIR, it was still connected to the mainline freight network.

 

The only reason  why the Sir is still considered  a railroad/commuter line is because in is not currently connected to the rest of the NYC SUbway. 

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Guess you don't know what makes SIR so different? Well, let me tell you. It ISN'T CONNECTED. Bay Ridge could be easily connected to the (L) and even if they'll choose not to then it still is only a few blocks away. Not unlike SIR which is on a separate island many miles apart from the nearest subway.

The BayRidge and (L) isnt a few blocks away try side by side from Livonia to NewLots and at the same grade there was a track Connection between the Bayridge and (L) right outside NewLots ave on the northern end. The tracks are severed now but you can still see the tracks and gate separates the two.  Someone else said this as well I think the RX should be routed up to LGA.

 

Carnarsie  to the right with the old track connection in 1999

BAYR3.jpg

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No, it's considered a railroad because that's what it is. that's how they operate it.

 

and why are you replying to something I said last year?

who cares how long i  took to reply as long as it open i can. BTW  I know its a railroad, but i was saying that it remains a railroad today only because there is no connection to other subways nor is one probable in the near future. 

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who cares how long i  took to reply as long as it open i can. BTW  I know its a railroad, but i was saying that it remains a railroad today only because there is no connection to other subways nor is one probable in the near future. 

It's a railroad because it is being used for freight. You can go see for yourself. I think you should go and try to understand what defines a "subway" and what defines a "railroad." Everything is a railroad by default. A subway is a heavily restricted subset of railroad. Since the Bay Ridge Branch has none of those restrictions, it cannot be a subway. When you ban all other kinds of trains from using the branch and you overhaul it for passenger use/maintenance trains only, then you have a sbuway.

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No, it's considered a railroad because that's what it is. that's how they operate it.

 

Operate it? It has a railroad signal system and is also used for freight service (the latter even being FRA mandated), thats what makes it a railroad.

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Operate it? It has a railroad signal system and is also used for freight service (the latter even being FRA mandated), thats what makes it a railroad.

 

Yes, it's operated with railroad signal systems, which means it's operated on a basic technological level the same as the railroad.

 

You're only concurring with Kamen Rider here...

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How Subways and Trains Differ

While the most obvious difference between subways and trains is where they run, with one underground and one aboveground, there are other general differences. In truth, a subway could easily run as an aboveground train, as there's no needed functional difference. However, there tend to be differences between them to make each more suited to their role. 

 

Subways are generally meant for passenger travel only, with a shape and style not designed to carry freight. Especially with the move towards standard-size containers for freight (a size that would be uncomfortably large in subway tunnels, as well as non-aerodynamic), subways are entirely unsuitable for freight transport. Focusing on passengers allows the subways to make their trains highly aerodynamic in design, the nonstandard but useful form allowing many subway lines to reach much higher speeds than an average rail line. Subways are designed with passengers and speed in mind first, with little concern for storage room for freight. 
 

Similarly, as far as speed goes, more subways rely on electrical and magnetic systems than trains. The 'third rail' is more associated with subways because subways tend to use the electrical system that calls for one more often. While maglev surface trains exist, they are rarer than the sort of high-speed electrical trains in subways. 
 

Of course, range is another matter. Due to the difficulty of making tunnels beyond a certain length, subways tend to be designed for much shorter trips overall. Trains, meanwhile, are made for longer journeys. One will rarely see a dining car or a snack car on a subway, as there's no need for them over the short, fast journeys a subway makes. (Observation cars are, rather obviously, completely out of the picture.) 
 

Because of these shorter distances, subways tend to make more stops, and often use systems that therefore allow for relatively quick braking. Trains tend to slowly reduce speed before reaching a stop, while if the same time was allowed for subways they would rarely if ever actually be at full speed. Subways therefore have a much shorter braking period involved. 
 

However, while it was mentioned before, it's worth repeating that subway trains are generally capable of running aboveground as well - in many places, like New York and California's Bay Area, there are train lines that run both above and below ground. A standard train might have more difficulty going underground, purely because of size, but it would be possible with the right cars. All the differences that tend to exist are sheer matters of practicality.

 

http://www.railroad.net/articles/topics/how-subways-and-trains-differ.php
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How Subways and Trains Differ

While the most obvious difference between subways and trains is where they run, with one underground and one aboveground, there are other general differences. In truth, a subway could easily run as an aboveground train, as there's no needed functional difference. However, there tend to be differences between them to make each more suited to their role. 

 

Subways are generally meant for passenger travel only, with a shape and style not designed to carry freight. Especially with the move towards standard-size containers for freight (a size that would be uncomfortably large in subway tunnels, as well as non-aerodynamic), subways are entirely unsuitable for freight transport. Focusing on passengers allows the subways to make their trains highly aerodynamic in design, the nonstandard but useful form allowing many subway lines to reach much higher speeds than an average rail line. Subways are designed with passengers and speed in mind first, with little concern for storage room for freight. 

 

Similarly, as far as speed goes, more subways rely on electrical and magnetic systems than trains. The 'third rail' is more associated with subways because subways tend to use the electrical system that calls for one more often. While maglev surface trains exist, they are rarer than the sort of high-speed electrical trains in subways. 

 

Of course, range is another matter. Due to the difficulty of making tunnels beyond a certain length, subways tend to be designed for much shorter trips overall. Trains, meanwhile, are made for longer journeys. One will rarely see a dining car or a snack car on a subway, as there's no need for them over the short, fast journeys a subway makes. (Observation cars are, rather obviously, completely out of the picture.) 

 

Because of these shorter distances, subways tend to make more stops, and often use systems that therefore allow for relatively quick braking. Trains tend to slowly reduce speed before reaching a stop, while if the same time was allowed for subways they would rarely if ever actually be at full speed. Subways therefore have a much shorter braking period involved. 

 

However, while it was mentioned before, it's worth repeating that subway trains are generally capable of running aboveground as well - in many places, like New York and California's Bay Area, there are train lines that run both above and below ground. A standard train might have more difficulty going underground, purely because of size, but it would be possible with the right cars. All the differences that tend to exist are sheer matters of practicality.

 

http://www.railroad.net/articles/topics/how-subways-and-trains-differ.php

 

That's how the layman/noob/average passenger will see it.
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It's a railroad because it is being used for freight. You can go see for yourself. I think you should go and try to understand what defines a "subway" and what defines a "railroad." Everything is a railroad by default. A subway is a heavily restricted subset of railroad. Since the Bay Ridge Branch has none of those restrictions, it cannot be a subway. When you ban all other kinds of trains from using the branch and you overhaul it for passenger use/maintenance trains only, then you have a sbuway. 

Obviously you dont get my point. i know why  its a railroad. i was saying that the only reason it stills is that way is because the SIR is currently not connected to the other boroughs.The fact is that there was plans to convert the SIR to subway.

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. Since the Bay Ridge Branch has none of those restrictions, it cannot be a subway. When you ban all other kinds of trains from using the branch and you overhaul it for passenger use/maintenance trains only, then you have a sbuway.

Last time i checked most of the row is 4 tracks long except between albany ave/aveh and 61st(by the D/N train Station). So it is possible to run both subway and freight service along the line if the ROW is expanded to have three tracks in the areas described above where there is only two. Plus it is relatively easy to convert a  freight line to subway. In fact thats what the city did with the A train  with the LIRR Rockaway line.

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Obviously you dont get my point. i know why  its a railroad. i was saying that the only reason it stills is that way is because the SIR is currently not connected to the other boroughs.The fact is that there was are plans to convert the SIR to subway.

 

The plans are still there, they are just shelved for the next 20 years or so due to lack of piles of money. There is evidence though like bell mouths at Owl Heads Park for example.

Plus it is relatively easy to convert a  freight line to subway. In fact thats what the city did with the A train  with the LIRR Rockaway line.

 

Am I allowed to ROFL right now? You have no idea dude. For starters, you would have to start by electrificating the Bay Ridge line which will extremely expensive. That money is better be used to electrificate parts of LIRR or MNRR at this point in time.

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Last time i checked most of the row is 4 tracks long except between albany ave/aveh and 61st(by the D/N train Station). So it is possible to run both subway and freight service along the line if the ROW is expanded to have three tracks in the areas described above where there is only two. Plus it is relatively easy to convert a  freight line to subway. In fact thats what the city did with the A train  with the LIRR Rockaway line.

This is what I said a while back on this very thread:

 

 

  • The real potential of the line isn't to connect Bay Ridge to Canarsie, but from Bay Ridge to the Bronx (known as the Triboro RX) or even from Staten Island where interborough subway service currently doesn't exist. I believe that was the idea put forth by the Regional Planning Association (RPA) and the idea you're referring to. It's said that the line could provide transfers to every single branch in the system from (A) to (Z) and (2) to (7) (except (S)) and would be the second line to not touch Manhattan (the other being the Crosstown line).

  • For the Canarsie line, the RPA had suggestions to split the Canarsie line right before the terminal to serve Starrett City (which is to the east of the Canarsie line, while the Bay Ridge branch is to the west).

  • A subway using the Bay Ridge branch will obviously not run on railroad tracks. The Bay Ridge branch has room for at least 2 tracks, 4 in most segments, and 4 (maybe even 6) along the entire length with dirt and trees moved out of the way. Take a look outside when on the Sea Beach line. Getting subway track laid isn't the issue so forget about the subway interfering with freight.

  • If built, it will likely have some sort of track connection to the Canarsie line. It makes sense that two parallel right-of-ways that are part of the same system would have such connections. That line would need a yard and a way to get trains to and from the rest of the subway system anyway.

 

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Obviously you dont get my point. i know why  its a railroad. i was saying that the only reason it stills is that way is because the SIR is currently not connected to the other boroughs.The fact is that there was plans to convert the SIR to subway.

New plans, dude: the line is being connected back to New Jersey for freight and the rest of the nation's railway network. It's not complete yet, obviously, but they've already reactivated a good half of it.

 

The Staten Island Railway doesn't have to be connected to another subway to be a subway, but connecting it to the rest of the subway network would bring about changes that would make it a subway.

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No, even if SIR was connected to the NYC subway then it would still be only half a subway. They spent a good amount of money on the new signal system on SIR, they're not gonna abandon that just because of a city connection. So it would still be half subway/half railroad-like.

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Yes, can this thread just go away? Most of the points were made a year ago. Bumping it now won't change the fact about it being built anytime soon.

 

 

Necroposting is not a popular activity. I know a board were if a thread has no activity for 30 days, it's not to be added to.

if dont like the forum u dont have to respond or read it.

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