Vistausss Posted August 26, 2013 Share #151 Posted August 26, 2013 You don't actually need a large scale divider. Boston's Orange Line runs alongside the Northeast Corridor, and the Green Line extension, also in Boston, will run alongside the Lowell commuter rail line. You DO need a large scale divider. But if you don't wanna take the time to look it up on the FRA requirements... The Boston Orange Line is an exception because it falls into the same category as PATH. The Boston Green Line falls under the FTA so it doesn't have to comply with FRA regulations as it already falls under FTA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted August 26, 2013 Share #152 Posted August 26, 2013 there is NO physical connection between any railroad and the NYC subways due to FRA regulations There, in fact, is. The thing is, they are connected in such a way that a train in revenue service could never accidentally get on the railroad except when wrong-railing. Even then, a few connections have no third-rail power limiting what can get on the wrong tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted August 26, 2013 Share #153 Posted August 26, 2013 There, in fact, is. The thing is, they are connected in such a way that a train in revenue service could never accidentally get on the railroad except when wrong-railing. Even then, a few connections have no third-rail power limiting what can get on the wrong tracks. Linden shops is the biggest example...there's a connection within the shops that lead to the freight tracks, but the only way is either from the Junius St lead or through the Livonia Av lead and both of those have no third rail that lead to the shops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted August 26, 2013 Share #154 Posted August 26, 2013 You DO need a large scale divider. But if you don't wanna take the time to look it up on the FRA requirements... The Boston Orange Line is an exception because it falls into the same category as PATH. The Boston Green Line falls under the FTA so it doesn't have to comply with FRA regulations as it already falls under FTA... ...all railed transit, light rail and subway, in the United States fall under the purview of the FTA (at least in terms of funding.) There were talks about expanding this to include safety regulation (unclear about whether or not that happened), but as of a few years ago the FTA did not have regulations regarding rail vehicles or operations besides the domestic content of transit vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted August 26, 2013 Share #155 Posted August 26, 2013 Alright, all in favor start building this right now. Why should I care if the FRA comes hunting you down? Geez, with this modern thing called internet it's apparantly stilll hard to look up requirements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingal11234 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share #156 Posted August 28, 2013 "still owned" Uhm, the line wasn't always owned by the LIRR. And the ROW is currently owned by various owners. LIRR owns part of the ROW (the part we're talking about in this topic), PA NYNJ owns part of the row and the lead into the Bay Ridge Yard is owned by NYA. And NYA is the one who does most of the freight on the branch and they have a 20 year lease. But even then: the line is FRA-compliant, like I tried to point out earlier. So even if you lay a second track where possible you still need FRA-compliant subway cars. And don't go talk about fully seperating that track, there's not enough space on quite some parts of the ROW to build and meet FRA clearance. (and by converting cars to be FRA-compliant you may also run the risk to put the entire subway system under FRA control) The entire row from freemont junction to bay ridge is owned by the lirr. the long island railroad used to run passenger service there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingal11234 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share #157 Posted August 28, 2013 Alright, all in favor start building this right now. Why should I care if the FRA comes hunting you down? Geez, with this modern thing called internet it's apparantly stilll hard to look up requirements... cant we at least have an L extension to flatbush ave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted August 28, 2013 Share #158 Posted August 28, 2013 The entire row from freemont junction to bay ridge is owned by the lirr. the long island railroad used to run passenger service there Clearly you dont like to read. The ROW is not entirely owned by LIRR, its owned for the most part by LIRR. But Ill focus on our stretch for now. When bought the LIRR they didnt buy the Bay Ridge branch until years later so it wasnt always owned by the LIRR. Regarding the current situation: LIRR owns the ROW until Bay Ridge but the Bay Ridge part is owned by NY&A. And I dont think NY&A wants to negotiate because they have a yard there... (not to mention their license on the ROW but thats not the biggest problem) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted August 28, 2013 Share #159 Posted August 28, 2013 What is with the massive fuss over the fed policy on this? It's like you guys just found a rulebook and you're reciting it to everybody... If this were a plausible (I don't even remember what the plan we're talking about is, but whatever plan it is) idea that the MTA were committed to, it would be perfectly possible to make the necessary changes and build new rail where needed. Those guidelines might look scary on a computer screen, but engineers work with different sets everyday. The same goes for rail rights: negotiations might sound scary, but the entire reason you have powerful political bodies like the MTA instead of simple train operators leasing from the city is for negotiation power; simple rights arguments that railfans bring up are small change in the political world of the MTA and the city. In any case, this is all a fatuous argument because nothing is happening anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted August 28, 2013 Share #160 Posted August 28, 2013 Why is this thread still open in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 28, 2013 Share #161 Posted August 28, 2013 Fresh Pond, on 28 Aug 2013 - 10:38 AM, said: Why is this thread still open in the first place... Because the op will throw a fit if it was closed. Afterall he was the one who brought the thread back after a year of inactivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted August 28, 2013 Share #162 Posted August 28, 2013 In any case, this is all a fatuous argument because nothing is happening anyway. Nothing is happening but that doesnt mean the idea doesnt exist anymore. In 2005, the mayor of NYC brought this idea to the table and it was never thrown into the bin so who knows what theyre take on it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted August 28, 2013 Share #163 Posted August 28, 2013 Clearly you dont like to read. The ROW is not entirely owned by LIRR, its owned for the most part by LIRR. But Ill focus on our stretch for now. When bought the LIRR they didnt buy the Bay Ridge branch until years later so it wasnt always owned by the LIRR. Regarding the current situation: LIRR owns the ROW until Bay Ridge but the Bay Ridge part is owned by NY&A. And I dont think NY&A wants to negotiate because they have a yard there... (not to mention their license on the ROW but thats not the biggest problem) The ROW from Bay Ridge northward is owned by the LIRR up to the junction with CSX. The NY&A is only the operator of the Bay Ridge line and other former LIRR freight lines. NY&A owns no trackage itself and uses rights granted by LIRR. ALL freight operations on Long Island from south of that junction in Queens, from Bay Ridge in the west to Montauk in the east, are handled by NY&A railroad through their lease with LIRR. The LIRR is the big enchilada, not NY&A. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted August 28, 2013 Share #164 Posted August 28, 2013 Nothing is happening but that doesnt mean the idea doesnt exist anymore. In 2005, the mayor of NYC brought this idea to the table and it was never thrown into the bin so who knows what theyre take on it is... I'm just going to point out that Bloomberg has tried a lot of stuff before (soda ban, congestion pricing, 2012 NYC Olympics) and failed. Bloomberg may have lots of chutzpah, but he's no Richard Daley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted August 28, 2013 Share #165 Posted August 28, 2013 The ROW from Bay Ridge northward is owned by the LIRR up to the junction with CSX. The NY&A is only the operator of the Bay Ridge line and other former LIRR freight lines. NY&A owns no trackage itself and uses rights granted by LIRR. ALL freight operations on Long Island from south of that junction in Queens, from Bay Ridge in the west to Montauk in the east, are handled by NY&A railroad through their lease with LIRR. The LIRR is the big enchilada, not NY&A. Carry on. Uhm, no. "65th Street yard is owned by NY City. NYA gave up the rights because no business. Its too close to NJ. NYNJ can't access the yard because NYA owns the lead into the yard, NYA & NYNJ management do not get along. The FRA was doing an inspection of the Bay Ridge branch in a trackcar when a NYNJ engine came right at them. The FRA changed the interchange rules in Bay Ridge, and NYA had to install a private lock on the NYNJ switch, banding them from interchange until an NYA offical opens the lock for NYNJ to access the interchange." So yes, they do own a thing or two, most notably the lead into the yard. WHICH I pointed out earlier and that would be a problem for subway service. The rest of the ROW is owned by LIRR, like I also pointed out. Carry on. I'm just going to point out that Bloomberg has tried a lot of stuff before (soda ban, congestion pricing, 2012 NYC Olympics) and failed. Bloomberg may have lots of chutzpah, but he's no Richard Daley. That's true. And sorry for downvoting your post, I meant to click the upvote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingal11234 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share #166 Posted August 28, 2013 Fresh Pond, on 28 Aug 2013 - 10:38 AM, said: Because the op will throw a fit if it was closed. Afterall he was the one who brought the thread back after a year of inactivity. Why are we trying to close stuff. Let people share ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingal11234 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share #167 Posted August 28, 2013 The ROW from Bay Ridge northward is owned by the LIRR up to the junction with CSX. The NY&A is only the operator of the Bay Ridge line and other former LIRR freight lines. NY&A owns no trackage itself and uses rights granted by LIRR. ALL freight operations on Long Island from south of that junction in Queens, from Bay Ridge in the west to Montauk in the east, are handled by NY&A railroad through their lease with LIRR. The LIRR is the big enchilada, not NY&A. Carry on. Correct Uhm, no. "65th Street yard is owned by NY City. NYA gave up the rights because no business. Its too close to NJ. NYNJ can't access the yard because NYA owns the lead into the yard, NYA & NYNJ management do not get along. The FRA was doing an inspection of the Bay Ridge branch in a trackcar when a NYNJ engine came right at them. The FRA changed the interchange rules in Bay Ridge, and NYA had to install a private lock on the NYNJ switch, banding them from interchange until an NYA offical opens the lock for NYNJ to access the interchange." So yes, they do own a thing or two, most notably the lead into the yard. WHICH I pointed out earlier and that would be a problem for subway service. The rest of the ROW is owned by LIRR, like I also pointed out. Carry on. That's true. And sorry for downvoting your post, I meant to click the upvote Even if that small part of the line is owned by NYA WHY would that hamper subway service? There is enough space by the Brooklyn Army Terminal for both subway and freight service to run. Plus the L or X doesnt have to run all the way to the yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted August 28, 2013 Share #168 Posted August 28, 2013 Well, it matters because it may have to use that part. Also: there's not enough space on some parts, like I pointed out earlier. If you want an example, look at the area of the old Parkville Junction where the F train crosses over it. It would take condeming property and widening the ROW to get more tracks in there. So even without the FRA dividers thing, you still have a space problem on some parts along the ROW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingal11234 Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share #169 Posted September 5, 2013 Well, it matters because it may have to use that part. Also: there's not enough space on some parts, like I pointed out earlier. If you want an example, look at the area of the old Parkville Junction where the F train crosses over it. It would take condeming property and widening the ROW to get more tracks in there. So even without the FRA dividers thing, you still have a space problem on some parts along the ROW. i understand that there are some narrow along the row, but that pat is not very long. you could simply build underneath them if necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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