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Should Department stores be open on major holidays i.e Thanksgiving X-MAS?


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Yeah but the thinking is that these are American holidays and American companies with American workers.... Do you see a pattern here? It's more about tradition and culture than anything else.

 

So department stores should be closed on certain holidays because we're American?

 

I'm not seeing the logic there.

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So department stores should be closed on certain holidays because we're American?

 

I'm not seeing the logic there.

 

 

He means american culture and traditions at some point should take precedence over things like making money and running a successful business; which a lot of these places are ten times over. A few days off is not going to kill profits and up till now we've all been just fine with these stores closed on major holidays. Only reason any of them started being open on these holidays is to turn out more profits.

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He means american culture and traditions at some point should take precedence over things like making money and running a successful business; which a lot of these places are ten times over. A few days off is not going to kill profits and up till now we've all been just fine with these stores closed on major holidays. Only reason any of them started being open on these holidays is to turn out more profits.

 

 

In reply to Urban.

 

 

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To clear up any misunderstandings, my last comment was meant more of a joke. In poor taste sure, but nonetheless a joke.

 

So department stores should be closed on certain holidays because we're American?

 

I'm not seeing the logic there.

 

I honestly share the same viewpoint, which is why I'm a bit suprised that many seem to advocate "tradition".

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He means american culture and traditions at some point should take precedence over things like making money and running a successful business; which a lot of these places are ten times over. A few days off is not going to kill profits and up till now we've all been just fine with these stores closed on major holidays. Only reason any of them started being open on these holidays is to turn out more profits.

Well what more can I tell you, it's the world we live in.... I personally am still not seeing anything wrong w/ businesses wanting to make an extra buck....

 

You get businesses that turn profits by opening on holidays and asking workers to come in when they don't want to, and on the other side of that coin you have workers that wanna take mad days off whenever possible & still wanna get paid....

 

 

...Of course as you said they could be open, but where does it end?

Up to the business owner's discretion.... If I ran a business of the sort, I would open holidays....

Of course, I wouldn't force workers to come in.... Now if those dept. stores are forcing/blackmailing workers to work holidays, that practice I am not agreeing with.

 

 

I honestly share the same viewpoint, which is why I'm a bit suprised that many seem to advocate "tradition".

I expect many to be on the side of tradition actually b/c people celebrate various holidays.... at the same token, if I'm a business owner tryna increase sales, turn profits, whatever - As callous as this sounds, I'm not caring about holidays.... I'm not gonna want to cease making as much money as I can because workers wanna take days off.... The part that gets me is that you get people (not all - of course I gotta throw that disclaimer in there) don't really celebrate holidays they take off for anyway.... It's just another day off.

 

Tell me I'm lying.

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Up to the business owner's discretion.... If I ran a business of the sort, I would open holidays....

Of course, I wouldn't force workers to come in.... Now if those dept. stores are forcing/blackmailing workers to work holidays, that practice I am not agreeing with.

 

 

 

I expect many to be on the side of tradition actually b/c people celebrate various holidays.... at the same token, if I'm a business owner tryna increase sales, turn profits, whatever - As callous as this sounds, I'm not caring about holidays.... I'm not gonna want to cease making as much money as I can because workers wanna take days off.... The part that gets me is that you get people (not all - of course I gotta throw that disclaimer in there) don't really celebrate holidays they take off for anyway.... It's just another day off.

 

Tell me I'm lying.

 

 

I run a department and I can tell you now that while we care about profit and sales (I'm a workaholic to a degree), we still believe in operating in a moral manner. Let's be realistic with your approach. So you want to open yet on the same token you argue that you wouldn't force folks to come in. I mean that's exactly what these department stores would have to do (and did do) if they seriously want to be open and increase sales/make a profit. You're either open for business or you're not. Now I have optional days (holidays like Columbus Day, Martin Luther King, Veteran's Day, etc) that I work or either take off and I decide that based on my work load and also on if I celebrate those days or not. However, we have a very European approach in terms of the classic American holidays. We close early the day before (though I usually stay behind since I don't feel like dealing with the crowds and morons rushing home to sit in traffic (did that once with the X14 and will never do that again)) and close for several days after where possible and we believe that time should be spent with family or that folks should be given the chance to spend that time as they please, as we work hard the entire year. We should at least have a few days out of the 365 day calendar that we don't have to worry about being open.

 

In short our business model is to work hard and maximize profit but not be ruthless and cold-hearted at the same time. This thought process is a dying breed here in the US, but it's a business model that luckily other companies I have worked for have maintained and some American companies with morals realize the importance of keeping. This is why I made the statement that here folks live to work instead of working to live.

 

I thank God that I've had a chance to live outside of the US to see that life isn't all about money and that you should find a balance between work and living.

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Well what more can I tell you, it's the world we live in.... I personally am still not seeing anything wrong w/ businesses wanting to make an extra buck....

 

You get businesses that turn profits by opening on holidays and asking workers to come in when they don't want to, and on the other side of that coin you have workers that wanna take mad days off whenever possible & still wanna get paid....

 

 

Well, I was brought up to appreciate the tradition of Christmas and Thanksgiving being time at home with the family. Something I appreciate even more in this day and age when 90% of the time (for most of us) is spent in an office or other place of work working for someone that we may or may not even like doing a job we may or may not be content doing just for the extra buck. My point is I spend plenty of time grinding for the dollar. Some business owners spend more than their fair share of time grinding to turn profits with other people's dollars.

 

 

Where does time spent with those we care about fit in? Or does that not matter either? Let's forget about what holidays we're even talking about and actually think about what they were meant for in general. Whether you celebrate it or not is irrelevant to me but I have to respect it. What's important to me and anyone that has agreed with me is that holidays are designated days off that should be enjoyed with whatever tradition that suits you. What kills me is the argument 'well not everybody celebrates these holidays'. There's enough of a majority that do...enough to present the importance of these holidays. I don't celebrate a jewish holiday and say that J&R should be open on Yom Kippur. Why should someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving get to be a factor as to whether or not KBs toys store should be open?

 

While i agree more with Urban and VG8's, i also gave a thumbs up to B35's for making an excellent counterpoint(I dont agree with that view though)on why departments should open even on days they never used to open like Thanksgiving & Christmas?

 

 

Now to add to this, if i'm not mistaken...after Christmas day most department stores if not all run special sales and a special returns program. Thanksgiving has black friday where you have people killing each other to get a pair of shoes or the latest gadget. So I feel like department stores that sit open on the holiday are just being needlessly greedy.

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I run a department and I can tell you now that while we care about profit and sales (I'm a workaholic to a degree), we still believe in operating in a moral manner. Let's be realistic with your approach. So you want to open yet on the same token you argue that you wouldn't force folks to come in. I mean that's exactly what these department stores would have to do if they seriously want to be open and increase sales/make a profit. You're either open for business or you're not. Now I have optional days (holidays like Columbus Day, Martin Luther King, Veteran's Day, etc) that I work or either take off and I decide that based on my work load and also on if I celebrate those days or not. However, we have a very European approach in terms of the classic American holidays. We close early the day before (though I usually stay behind since I don't feel like dealing with the crowds and morons rushing home to sit in traffic (did that once with the X14 and will never do that again)) and close for several days after where possible and we believe that time should be spent with family or that folks should be given the chance to spend that time as they please, as we work hard the entire year. We should at least have a few days out of the 365 day calendar that we don't have to worry about being open.

 

I am absolutely being realistic..... And I'm still saying No, I wouldn't force or blackmail people to come in.... I would ask.

Are you really gonna get EVERYONE in a major dept. store saying that they don't wanna work? I highly doubt that (speaking of being realistic)...

 

You hire people that want to work, not look for reasons to wanna take days off (to me, that includes holidays).... Those people that don't come in, don't get paid - That simple..... This has less to do with workers working 365 days a year (I'm not advocating no days off whatsoever dude) & more to do with workers looking for more days off where they don't have to come to work... If I'm a business owner, damn that, I'm not tryna hear it....

 

 

....Where does time spent with those we care about fit in? Or does that not matter either? Let's forget about what holidays we're even talking about and actually think about what they were meant for in general. Whether you celebrate it or not is irrelevant to me but I have to respect it. What's important to me and anyone that has agreed with me is that holidays are designated days off that should be enjoyed with whatever tradition that suits you. What kills me is the argument 'well not everybody celebrates these holidays'. There's enough of a majority that do...enough to present the importance of these holidays. I don't celebrate a jewish holiday and say that J&R should be open on Yom Kippur. Why should someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving get to be a factor as to whether or not KBs toys store should be open?

 

Why should someone that doesn't celebrate those holidays miss a day's pay due to these stores being closed.......

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I am absolutely being realistic..... And I'm still saying No, I wouldn't force or blackmail people to come in.... I would ask.

Are you really gonna get EVERYONE in a major dept. store saying that they don't wanna work? I highly doubt that (speaking of being realistic)...

 

You hire people that want to work, not look for reasons to wanna take days off (to me, that includes holidays).... Those people that don't come in, don't get paid - That simple..... This has less to do with workers working 365 days a year (I'm not advocating no days off whatsoever dude) & more to do with workers looking for more days off where they don't have to come to work... If I'm a business owner, damn that, I'm not tryna hear it....

The only ones that would are those desperate for money, but most would want to be off to spend time with their family or relaxing. Someone not wanting to work on Thanksgiving isn't lazy which is what you seem to be implying. What's troubling to me is just a few years ago we wouldn't even be having this conversation about department stores being open on Thanksgiving because it was understood that it was a day for family and to give thanks regardless of your religious background, ethnicity or race. I don't have to be "X" religion to appreciate and understand the meaning of Thanksgiving, but the idea of the holiday is for all of us enjoy it in whatever way works for us, ideally not working.

 

As far as I'm concerned, if a business owner wants to open on Thanksgiving when they usually weren't open well that's great for them, and there are some jobs where it is understood that folks have to come in, but you seem to be implying somehow that some businesses would just be terrible if they weren't open on Thanksgiving which I think is a bunch of crappola.

 

These department stores were doing just fine when they weren't open on Thanksgiving and at some point it goes back to the question of "good business". Now in my industry every year the goal is maximize profit and generate more revenue, but where do you draw the line? There are plenty of companies out there that could be open trying to maximize profit but they understand that their workers aren't machines and are human beings with families and the decent, moral thing to do is to let those folks be with their family and celebrate the holiday as they see fit.

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The only ones that would are those desperate for money, but most would want to be off to spend time with their family or relaxing. Someone not wanting to work on Thanksgiving isn't lazy which is what you seem to be implying. What's troubling to me is just a few years ago we wouldn't even be having this conversation about department stores being open on Thanksgiving because it was understood that it was a day for family and to give thanks regardless of your religious background, ethnicity or race. I don't have to be "X" religion to appreciate and understand the meaning of Thanksgiving, but the idea of the holiday is for all of us enjoy it in whatever way works for us, ideally not working.

 

As far as I'm concerned, if a business owner wants to open on Thanksgiving when they usually weren't open well that's great for them, and there are some jobs where it is understood that folks have to come in, but you seem to be implying somehow that some businesses would just be terrible if they weren't open on Thanksgiving which I think is a bunch of crappola.

 

I don't know why you're conveying your understanding of appreciation for religions & holidays to me.... Saying that I think stores should be open on holidays does not equal my lack of knowledge, or absent-mindedness of what religions & holidays mean to people.... I get all that.... I'm saying that if I were a business owner tryna make money on those particular days, people taking off holidays & wanting stores to close or whatever, I'm not trying to hear..... That is not me saying for example, "you better come in on this day or else you're fired"..... You wanna take those days off, take em off.... Again, you just won't get paid, but my store will be open...... All these extras you're thinking I'm implicating, I dunno man......

 

Speaking of the jumping to conclusions......

 

Laziness? I'd want my workers to come in as many days as possible when I'm open... again, you wanna take holidays off, that's on you.... I'm not closing my store though because you wanna take days off.... That's not exactly implicating that workers are lazy (that's what I mean w/ the extras you're putting on things).... Someone having a lower work ethic than someone else doesn't make that person lazier than someone else.....

 

Businesses being terrible if they weren't open? Not remotely implying that at all, Via....

While I don't agree that dept. stores should literally close on holidays, I don't think it's WW III if some store is closed on Thanksgiving or w/e...

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Why should someone that doesn't celebrate those holidays miss a day's pay due to these stores being closed.......

 

 

Why should someone who does have to come into work that day for straight pay? Any good company pays for holidays whether you go in or not. None of these retailers that I know of pay differentials for working holidays. I never got paid time and a half for showing up to work on thanksgiving, christmas or new years when I worked retail. So i already know the game. If you're gonna get your dollar make sure its worth getting.

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Why should someone who does have to come into work that day for straight pay? Any good company pays for holidays whether you go in or not. None of these retailers that I know of pay differentials for working holidays. I never got paid time and a half for showing up to work on thanksgiving, christmas or new years when I worked retail. So i already know the game. If you're gonna get your dollar make sure its worth getting.

 

Wait a second..... I'm not arguing lower pay rate for said workers on holidays, so that's not my question to answer....

 

I do believe workers should get paid time & a half, or even double time (where necessary) for working holidays.....

Those dept. stores that pull that shit of paying workers regular pay for working holidays are, for lack of another word... Terrible.

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Wait a second..... I'm not arguing lower pay rate for said workers on holidays, so that's not my question to answer....

 

I do believe workers should get paid time & a half, or even double time (where necessary) for working holidays.....

Those dept. stores that pull that shit of paying workers regular pay for working holidays are, for lack of another word... Terrible.

 

 

Agreed. If department stores do open on holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas, they should at very least pay 'time & half" or even double pay. Despite it's major down side, at least EMS workers i.e Police, FIRE, etc. and Doctors/Nurses who must be available to work 365/24-7, almost *all of them* get time and half pay.

 

And on Thanksgiving and Christmas, do you honestly see Box Store Company CEO's and Owners work themselves? I dont think so.

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Wait a second..... I'm not arguing lower pay rate for said workers on holidays, so that's not my question to answer....

 

I do believe workers should get paid time & a half, or even double time (where necessary) for working holidays.....

Those dept. stores that pull that shit of paying workers regular pay for working holidays are, for lack of another word... Terrible.

 

I think that's what you don't realize... Those jobs aren't that glamorous in terms of pay for the most part unless it's a Neiman Marcus/Bergdorf Goodman (same company) or a Saks where maybe the ones that sell good can make a nice buck, but the average department store is a revolving door. For my optional days I am paid whether I come in or take off and the incentive for me to come in is the potential bonus or bonuses throughout the year based on performance on top of my base salary and commissions. As the owner yeah it's probably worth it for you to open depending on how much you bring in, but most of the workers make peanuts, so the idea of them having to work when they're already earning nothing is like adding insult to injury.

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And on Thanksgiving and Christmas, do you honestly see Box Store Company CEO's and Owners work themselves? I dont think so.

 

Heh.... Work... Lol....

You don't see them period !

 

 

I think that's what you don't realize... Those jobs aren't that glamorous in terms of pay for the most part unless it's a Neiman Marcus/Bergdorf Goodman (same company) or a Saks where maybe the ones that sell good can make a nice buck, but the average department store is a revolving door. For my optional days I am paid whether I come in or take off and the incentive for me to come in is the potential bonus or bonuses throughout the year based on performance on top of my base salary and commissions. As the owner yeah it's probably worth it for you to open depending on how much you bring in, but most of the workers make peanuts, so the idea of them having to work when they're already earning nothing is like adding insult to injury

 

Of course I know dept. store/retail/whatever you wanna call em workers in general, aren't bringing in bank; that goes without saying......

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I pretty much agree with B35. If the business owner feels that they'll get more money by opening on Thanksgiving or Christmas, then sure, let them.

 

As for the workers, there are always going to be those who will be willing to work on a holiday. You might get some who don't celebrate the holiday (if they're Jewish and don't celebrate Christmas, or they just don't like celebrating holidays). For the others, it's just a matter of sweetening the pot. You offer people time-and-a-half or double time, and you'll get some workers who are willing to work that day. (And you could offer them another holiday as an alternative as well. You could have some workers come in Thanksgiving, others come in Christmas, others come in July 4th, and so on).

 

But basically, if you make it voluntary, and offer some reward/bonus for coming in those days, I have no problem with it. Personally, I'm not really into holidays, and if I could get a chance to get extra pay and take a different day off at my own leisure (or even just the extra pay), I'd go for it.

 

I mean, hell, consider the MTA. They don't shut down completely on those holidays. Yeah, they run reduced service, but workers do come in on those days. I'm sure they get holiday pay, and they probably get some other day off as compensation. You keep the service running, and the workers who want to come in get paid.

 

Now, how profitable it would be to even open on Christmas, I don't know (but then again, with so few businesses open, you might have a monopoly on the few people who are out shopping or whatever), but if the owner feels it's profitable, hey more power to them.

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Man I hate how american consumerism has become :( .

 

I remember when I was a kid I use to see a lot of stores closed on thanksgivings, now it become a sausage fest on who gets the deals on black Friday part 1 or 2, even if it means beating someone up just to get the a sale on a flat screen or dress. there is going to be a point were someone will have a gun and start shooting people all because one person got pissed he didn't get hes xbox, I won't be surprise a Black Friday massacre some were down the line. :(

 

But look on the bright side, you can take your local Walmart and record all the mayhem and post it on YouTube. thousands of hits :lol:

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I think I've reached a compromise to sum up my viewpoint. If my employer want me to enjoy a holiday, I damn well better be recieving payment. Furthermore, if my employer wants me to work a holiday, I better recieve a decent compensation for doing so. All in all, give me a decent wage. I think that's truly what the majority of the working class want.

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^ Exactly. To add perhaps holidays off with pay? I'm sure the retail CEOs can make that happen. If this is America land of opportunitty as ppl boast then we must set the example in terms of economic equality as our current capitalist model allows. (Of course that model can be revised if these politicians and others in US gvt as well as those in the private sector is willing)

 

Land of the free and opportunity? About time someone should step up to the plate and make this happen in due time. Of course this is nothing more than wishful thinking, but I guess it is ok to dream....

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Man I hate how american consumerism has become :( .

 

I remember when I was a kid I use to see a lot of stores closed on thanksgivings, now it become a sausage fest on who gets the deals on black Friday part 1 or 2, even if it means beating someone up just to get the a sale on a flat screen or dress. there is going to be a point were someone will have a gun and start shooting people all because one person got pissed he didn't get hes xbox, I won't be surprise a Black Friday massacre some were down the line. :(

 

But look on the bright side, you can take your local Walmart and record all the mayhem and post it on YouTube. thousands of hits :lol:

 

I heard of some nut job carrying a gun during black Friday and threatening to use it so that he could get the items he wanted. Smh...

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