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6 Lexington Ave

MTA: Numbered Subway Lines Late More Often Than Lettered Lines

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New Metropolitan Transportation Authority statistics show the city's numbered subway lines are late more often than their lettered counterparts.

 

 

Numbered line trains were on schedule 76 percent of the time in September, well below the system-wide average of almost 84 percent.

Transit officials determine if a train is on time if it arrives at the last stop within five minutes of the scheduled time.

MTA officials say the numbered lines are more crowded, leaving them open to more delays because of situations like sick passengers.

The subway line with the best on-time performance rate was the L, with a 96-percent rating.

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source: http://www.ny1.com/content/transit/172837/mta--numbered-subway-lines-late-more-often-than-lettered-lines

 

I believe another factor for the delays in the A division are the tight(er) headways.

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I have a problem with the methodology they use for determining if trains are on time or not. I think once all stations have the countdown clocks they should be able to see where all trains are at all times and come up with an electronic system that can show the exact time that each train arrives at each station. Let's move into the 21st century already!! <_< If they need help, they can get some serious advice from the Swiss and Germans who have some of the most punctual trains if not the most punctual trains in the world.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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I have a problem with the methodology they use for determining if trains are on time or not. I think once all stations have the countdown clocks they should be able to see where all trains are at all times and come up with an electronic system that can show the exact time that each train arrives at each station. Let's move into the 21st century already!! <_< If they need help, they can get some serious advice from the Swiss and Germans who have some of the most punctual trains if not the most punctual trains in the world.

 

True. (MTA), you can do a ton better!

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I have a problem with the methodology they use for determining if trains are on time or not. I think once all stations have the countdown clocks they should be able to see where all trains are at all times and come up with an electronic system that can show the exact time that each train arrives at each station. Let's move into the 21st century already!! <_< If they need help, they can get some serious advice from the Swiss and Germans who have some of the most punctual trains if not the most punctual trains in the world.

 

 

If you have the money to install an automatic dispatching system in the B-Division, then by all means, the (MTA) is waiting for your donation...

 

Patience is a virtue people...

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If you have the money to install an automatic dispatching system in the B-Division, then by all means, the (MTA) is waiting for your donation...

 

Patience is a virtue people...

 

Oh please... Spare me with the patience and money routine. It's getting old already. I have to laugh every time I see how far behind the (MTA) is in comparison to other transit systems. Mediocrity and patience are two very different things.

 

 

Yeah and I bet in Switzerland and Germany, customers don't hold the doors.......

 

They don't because they know that their trains arrive on time and are not packed like sardine cans. A bit of civilization... Imagine that. :lol:

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Guest Lance

The problem isn't mediocrity as you say, but rather a lack of adequate funding. You want a less packed subway? Tell your elected officials to stop robbing the MTA whenever Albany's funds get a little tight.

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The problem isn't mediocrity as you say, but rather a lack of adequate funding. You want a less packed subway? Tell your elected officials to stop robbing the MTA whenever Albany's funds get a little tight.

 

Actually it's a combination of the two. A lack of funding is one problem, but it also seems to be far more expensive for the (MTA) to get work done properly. In other words their costs seem to be inflated and that's another big problem as well, so it's easy to mention adequate funding. Ineptness can make things far more costly than they should be. They need to start looking to do more things in house and looking for more suggestions in house. They could save a lot more money that way. Aside from that they could also get more things customized to better suit their needs.

 

Take Bus Time for example... For years they had been trying to get a tracking device up and running using outside vendors and now finally they have something that works that was done in house at a much cheaper cost and is customized to their needs.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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What Via Garibaldi says here is true that is cheaper (and better) for the work to be done in house instead of contracting out.

 

The Public Employees Federation (which represents the state workers that would do the consultants are doing now) would be more than happy to provide information as to the savings that would accrue if the work was done in house. PEF has been complaining about it for years and so has the DC 37 which represents many of the workers on the city level that would do the work.

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What Via Garibaldi says here is true that is cheaper (and better) for the work to be done in house instead of contracting out.

 

The Public Employees Federation (which represents the state workers that would do the consultants are doing now) would be more than happy to provide information as to the savings that would accrue if the work was done in house. PEF has been complaining about it for years and so has the DC 37 which represents many of the workers on the city level that would do the work.

 

I would even go further in arguing that a guy like Ed Mangano was thinking this very thing when he pulled funding from the (MTA) making this same argument. It's another topic, but it's another example of how to do more with less.

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source: http://www.ny1.com/c...-lettered-lines

 

I believe another factor for the delays in the A division are the tight(er) headways.

 

 

Indeed. But why is on-time performance even reported? Does anyone on a subway system really care if the train reaches the last stop within five minutes of its scheduled time? When I ride the subway, what I care about most is that the time between trains isn't longer than the scheduled headway, and what I care about next is that the travel time is close to the scheduled running time. I certainly don't care if the train scheduled to get to Woodlawn at 10:42 got there no later than 10:47! It also doesn't make sense to use the same five-minute threshold for a short line as for a long line.

 

I have a problem with the methodology they use for determining if trains are on time or not. I think once all stations have the countdown clocks they should be able to see where all trains are at all times and come up with an electronic system that can show the exact time that each train arrives at each station. Let's move into the 21st century already!! <_< If they need help, they can get some serious advice from the Swiss and Germans who have some of the most punctual trains if not the most punctual trains in the world.

 

 

The A Division has ATS, which records exact arrival times, station by station. The same ATS system is what feeds information to the countdown clocks.

 

The B Division doesn't (aside from the L), which is why the B Division doesn't have countdown clocks. So the methodology on the B Division has to be different.

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I have a problem with the methodology they use for determining if trains are on time or not. I think once all stations have the countdown clocks they should be able to see where all trains are at all times and come up with an electronic system that can show the exact time that each train arrives at each station. Let's move into the 21st century already!! <_< If they need help, they can get some serious advice from the Swiss and Germans who have some of the most punctual trains if not the most punctual trains in the world.

 

We have those signs here too in some cities in The Netherlands for bus service and those things don't work as well as you'd expect. Also, they let you think to believe that you're still on time because it always shows relative time and not how late a vehicle is.

 

In Belgium they do it a lot better for buses/streetcars. They at least show the time it should be leaving and when a delay comes up it just shows how many minutes the delay is per minute. So for example it shows "1:43 PM +3" meaning it should've left at 1:43 PM but it's running 3 minutes late.

 

Not sure how they do that in Germany but I've never seen these clocks in Switzerland so I guess they just show the same as in NYC.

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What Via Garibaldi says here is true that is cheaper (and better) for the work to be done in house instead of contracting out.

 

The Public Employees Federation (which represents the state workers that would do the consultants are doing now) would be more than happy to provide information as to the savings that would accrue if the work was done in house. PEF has been complaining about it for years and so has the DC 37 which represents many of the workers on the city level that would do the work.

 

 

Smart talk makes too much sense sorry they dont do that down here...

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The A Division has ATS, which records exact arrival times, station by station. The same ATS system is what feeds information to the countdown clocks.

 

The B Division doesn't (aside from the L), which is why the B Division doesn't have countdown clocks. So the methodology on the B Division has to be different.

 

Hence why I said what I said above...

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Why not install GPS then? Here in some countries in Europe most of the vehicles run with GPS enabled which in turn give the current location to the countdown clocks for it to measure how many minutes the delay is.

Edited by Vistausss

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GPS would probably work very well, on the elevated lines, on surface lines, and in open cuts. Subway tunnels would be problematic.

 

 

If it works in Europe and Asia in tunnels then why wouldn't it in NYC?

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What Via Garibaldi says here is true that is cheaper (and better) for the work to be done in house instead of contracting out.

 

 

 

But if the work that needed to be done COULDN'T be done in house? What makes you think we have the expertise?

 

That's like asking why a subway car that'll run in this system isn't built by people that work for this system.

 

And to the guy above, tunnels in Europe would need to be WIRED for it right? We aren't.

Edited by LTA1992

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But if the work that needed to be done COULDN'T be done in house? What makes you think we have the expertise?

 

That's like asking why a subway car that'll run in this system isn't built by people that work for this system.

 

And to the guy above, tunnels in Europe would need to be WIRED for it right? We aren't.

 

We do you mean we?? In house means having the folks that work for the (MTA) do it. They have the personnel to do it. It would be cheaper to use them than to farm out the work to subcontractors which is what they often do.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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We do you mean we?? In house means having the folks that work for the (MTA) do it. They have the personnel to do it. It would be cheaper to use them than to farm out the work to subcontractors which is what they often do.

 

 

That's what I meant. Deflate that head of yours and read the entire post next time.

 

And I repeat, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT THEIR PERSONNEL HAS THE EXPERTISE TO PREFORM SUCH TASKS?

 

You don't think it makes sense to contract that sort of thing to someone that has done it before in other countries? Cheaper isn't always the best way to go.

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That's what I meant. Deflate that head of yours and read the entire post next time.

 

And I repeat, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT THEIR PERSONNEL HAS THE EXPERTISE TO PREFORM SUCH TASKS?

 

You don't think it makes sense to contract that sort of thing to someone that has done it before in other countries? Cheaper isn't always the best way to go.

 

And I repeat... They have the personnel there that can do some of these things in house. I gave an example earlier of how Bus Time was done in house after years of failed attempts using subcontractors... <_<

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Maybe they contracted it to the wrong people? Buses are easy to do. Install a gps unit on the vehicle, link it up to the satellites up above and the world wide web down below. The subway is a completely different ballgame and unlike buses, it's not something that can be replaced on a constant bases. How long did it take for the IRT to get it's ATS and countdown clocks? Almost a decade. The L line with CBTC? Again, almost a decade. Things in the subway don't happen over night not to mention expensive as compared to just installing a box on just over 2,000 buses for way less. Not to mention inflation as the years progress. And you can't say that's an excuse because all you have to do is look in the supermarket for that one. Just as a persons paycheck doesn't rise to meet the current cost of living, the (MTA) doesn't get the amount of money needed to get things done at once.

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Although the exact methodology of reporting OTP seems a little meaningless, it does speak to the reliability of the line(s) in general. The IRT lines frequently see large gaps and most of us know the causes for this. I don't need OTP to tell me that the A Division is unreliable but some riders do.

Edited by JubaionBx12+SBS

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