MTA LIB Accidents

[Burrstone]

Since the accident today was such a hot topic, even people questioning the saftey and maintenance of Veolia/nice, ironic because of how many buses failed to pass a DOT inspection at the end of last year. If a private operate had that same record they would've been shut down by the Dept. Of Transportation.

 

With so many people calling for a return of the MTA, I figured I'd start this thread to recall some MTA LIB "incidents."

 

My first submission, who could forget about this gem!?! An MTA Long Island Bus broadsiding a school bus injuring 27 people, thankfully not killing anyone!

 

 

School bus collides with MTA bus in Cedarhurst

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=294910&position=1&news_type=news

 

 

 

(10/12/11) CEDARHURST - A school bus collided with a commuter bus in Cedarhurst this morning, leaving 30 people injured.

The accident happened at around 9 a.m. at the intersection of Central Avenue and McGlyyn Place.

Fire officials say all 15 preschool students from the Lawrence School District who were aboard the bus sustained injuries, but are expected to recover. Deputy Chief Anthony Rivelli, of the Lawrence Cedarhurst Fire Department, says the kids were transported to Nassau County Medical Center as a precaution.

Rivelli says the most serious injury on the MTA bus was a possible fractured leg. Some of the other passengers suffered head, neck and back injuries.

Police say the cause of the collision is being investigated. However, Chris Lewis, who was on the MTA bus, claims the driver ran through a stop sign and broadsided the school bus.

[Joel Up Front]

This is nothing more than a "I suck veolia nuts" thread under the cover of a "look LIB did all this bad stuff" title.

[Burrstone]

You sure seem to be posting a lot about sucking nuts today, I guess you're just sticking to posting what you know about!?!

[Vistausss]

Wow, that looks badly damaged! LIB really sucks. Those bus drivers don't even know what a stop sign means!

[/sarcasm]

 

In all seriousness, I do favor this topic. LIB also made a lot of mistakes and the fanboys need to realize that.

[Burrstone]

Running a stop sign and hitting a school bus was not very nice of MTA LIB.

[Vistausss]

Running a stop sign and hitting a school bus was not very nice of MTA LIB.

 

 

Yeah, I brought it more like a joke because I did exaggarate lol. But actually, I do agree with you; hope that bus driver was taught a very valuable lesson.

[User]

Burrstone, why would you create another topic where you know arguing between the MTA and Veolia is going to occur, especially when you ask me to combine threads?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Burrstone, why would you create another topic where you know arguing between the MTA and Veolia is going to occur, especially when you ask me to combine threads?

 

I doubt NICE would go back to the MTA, instead they would just change the Operators of the Company

[User]

I doubt NICE would go back to the MTA, instead they would just change the Operators of the Company

 

lol, well i kinda meant arguments between the users on this forum over the two operators. Its non-stop in this section.

[Burrstone]

Brett it happens in every section and as you said is out of control. I didn't knowingly start a thread that would create arguments. Every nice/Veolua/MTA topic has gotten so far of topic I created this thread because I did want to reflect on the MTA's accident and safety record, while some people are calling on the MTA as the savior I want to remind them... I didn't want to bring any other topic further off topic...

[PinePower]

Wow, that looks badly damaged! LIB really sucks. Those bus drivers don't even know what a stop sign means!

[/sarcasm]

 

In all seriousness, I do favor this topic. LIB also made a lot of mistakes and the fanboys need to realize that.

 

 

I'm far from an LIB fanboy. LIB had alot of problems, but in comparison, NICE Bus is much worse. Veolia is trying but I think they're starting to realize maybe the MTA was right when they said they could afford to run only half the system under the budget. A driver told me today the next pick is going to see a 20% reduction in service. In the end, we may end up with something very similar to the MTA's plan.

Veolia doesn't want to cut maintanance, they were forced to because of the budget, and at this point I'd rather have less buses on the lighter routes and more reliability.

Now I know LIB was also far from reliable, and the problems there are for the same reason they are now, not enough subsidy. The real blame lies where it always has, Nassau County. And as I've said before, Ed Mangano is just continuing what previous executives did. The Legislature could also care less about the buses, despite what the Minority Party says, because when they were in charge the same crap was happening.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'm far from an LIB fanboy. LIB had alot of problems, but in comparison, NICE Bus is much worse. Veolia is trying but I think they're starting to realize maybe the MTA was right when they said they could afford to run only half the system under the budget. A driver told me today the next pick is going to see a 20% reduction in service. In the end, we may end up with something very similar to the MTA's plan.

Veolia doesn't want to cut maintanance, they were forced to because of the budget, and at this point I'd rather have less buses on the lighter routes and more reliability.

Now I know LIB was also far from reliable, and the problems there are for the same reason they are now, not enough subsidy. The real blame lies where it always has, Nassau County. And as I've said before, Ed Mangano is just continuing what previous executives did. The Legislature could also care less about the buses, despite what the Minority Party says, because when they were in charge the same crap was happening.

 

 

Isnt next pick like a month from now.

[PinePower]

I doubt NICE would go back to the MTA, instead they would just change the Operators of the Company

 

 

Its not the company's fault. Changing companies is not the answer to the bus problems here, and although I'd like to see the MTA return, Nassau County is going to need to take bus service seriously first. I dont think any other company would want to do business with Nassau anyway, I think even Veolia is regretting it. They thought they could cut maintanance and labor costs and it would work, and it may in other markets, but not here.

Veolia promised an unsustainable level of service given the budget, quality bus service costs money for good maintanance and labor. Look at Westchester's Bee-Line, it's not MTA, but carries more people than NICE and is much more reliable and cleaner, and run by a private operator (Liberty Lines). That's because Westchester puts much more money into the public transportation budget. Somehow they find the money for bus service, but Nassau can't? The stigma against buses in this county is decades old and it needs to stop once and for all.

 

Isnt next pick like a month from now.

 

 

Yup. It'll be interesting to see when NICE posts the service changes, it probably will be a week before. They know ppl will be pissed so they will wait as long as possible.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Its not the company's fault. Changing companies is not the answer to the bus problems here, and although I'd like to see the MTA return, Nassau County is going to need to take bus service seriously first. I dont think any other company would want to do business with Nassau anyway, I think even Veolia is regretting it. They thought they could cut maintanance and labor costs and it would work, and it may in other markets, but not here.

Veolia promised an unsustainable level of service given the budget, quality bus service costs money for good maintanance and labor. Look at Westchester's Bee-Line, it's not MTA, but carries more people than NICE and is much more reliable and cleaner, and run by a private operator (Liberty Lines). That's because Westchester puts much more money into the public transportation budget. Somehow they find the money for bus service, but Nassau can't? The stigma against buses in this county is decades old and it needs to stop once and for all.

 

 

 

Yup. It'll be interesting to see when NICE posts the service changes, it probably will be a week before. They know ppl will be pissed so they will wait as long as possible.

 

 

I'm calling NICE Tomorrow to see if I can get a heads up

[PinePower]

I'm calling NICE Tomorrow to see if I can get a heads up

 

 

If you get any info please share it here...thanks!

[User]

What do you expect NICE to say? Remember we were only notified about those April service reductions the day of the hearings. These service reductions will probably be no different, especially if they are 20% less service, in which case, they won't tell us until they're ready to release new schedules or plan to hold a public hearing. 2013 is also a month away and once January comes, NICE does have the ability to cut more service.

[qjtransitmaster]

using buses in nassau will just get worse to the point where soon the fools will realize that they NEED bus service at high quality.

[PinePower]

using buses in nassau will just get worse to the point where soon the fools will realize that they NEED bus service at high quality.

 

 

I already think ridership is down, and more cuts will further drive away ridership, especially if busy routes like the n22 wind up with hourly service.

I've already noticed a significant reduction in n27 ridership since the April 8th service changes, I'm estimating at least 25% down. I doubt NICE even sees 100,000 riders a day now. I think that will be cut in half by this time next year.

People will choose to either move elsewhere, seek employment elsewhere (many ppl in NYC who use to work out here dont anymore), and use other modes if possible LIRR (I bet many former n6 riders are). I already asked the MTA board to add stops on weekend trains for places like Westbury and Mineola. If malls get desperate enough they'll run their own shuttles from LIRR. It's a vicious cycle, longer waits and less reliable service will drive away riders. I see more people on bikes now too. If I were I'd offer a $3 island pass ($1.50 reduced fare) for all riders to travel between points on Long Island, even if it has to be via Jamaica.

Should've suggested that at the hearing.

But you're absolutely right, this is the start of a vicious cycle that will drive away riders leading to yet more cuts. The state won't step in until the system is left with just a handful of routes that run only once an hour. It's a terrible blow to the economy, as if Sandy wasnt enough.

[PinePower]

What do you expect NICE to say? Remember we were only notified about those April service reductions the day of the hearings. These service reductions will probably be no different, especially if they are 20% less service, in which case, they won't tell us until they're ready to release new schedules or plan to hold a public hearing. 2013 is also a month away and once January comes, NICE does have the ability to cut more service.

 

 

And we all know how they'll do it, cutting back service on busy routes instead of making the hard choices to eliminate the losers (n50, n51,n57,n62,n73,n74,n80,n81). I wont be suprised to see hourly n22 service on weekends even though the buses are already jammed with 30 min headways.

Of course if I were in their shoes I'd work things alot differently. For starters-

Eliminations:

n74 - duplicated by n70/71/72 along Hempstead Turnpike

n80- carries few riders and is near busier n81 (its easier to walk between the 2 routes than n23 & n27 because of LIRR, yet Veolia cut n27 on weekends to Roslyn, go figure).

n62- duplicated by the n36 and is in within walking distance of many other routes

n57- duplicated by n58, low ridership

 

Frequency adjustments/alterations:

n19 - every other trip ends at Sunrise Mall instead of Babylon (new interline availabilities)

n20 - Too many Hicksville trips in rush hours, I see too many buses going to Hicksville in the PM from Flushing with only a few people

*weekdays all n20 trips from Hicksville run as limited, 30 min headways rush hours, 60 all other times

*local n20 trips start at CW Post instead of Roslyn to service students

n21- Needs to be restored full time, hourly service all times

n23/n27: weekdays n23 30 min rush hour only, 60 min other times, n27 weekdays every 45-60 min all other times other than rush hour (every 30 min at those times)

n27 to Roosevelt Field weekends, 60 min headway, n23 HTC-Manorhaven 60 min headway weekends

n35 evenings and Saturdays - every other trip ends at NCC(RF on Sat) instead of Westbury

n46/n47 - rush hours only

n50- rush hours only

n51 rush hours only

 

 

Maybe I should post these suggestions to Veolia? Oh thats right I did something similar prior to April 8th and they didn't listen. They drive ppl away from successful routes while trying to save the losers, some logic?

[qjtransitmaster]

And we all know how they'll do it, cutting back service on busy routes instead of making the hard choices to eliminate the losers (n50, n51,n57,n62,n73,n74,n80,n81). I wont be suprised to see hourly n22 service on weekends even though the buses are already jammed with 30 min headways.

Of course if I were in their shoes I'd work things alot differently. For starters-

Eliminations:

n74 - duplicated by n70/71/72 along Hempstead Turnpike

n80- carries few riders and is near busier n81 (its easier to walk between the 2 routes than n23 & n27 because of LIRR, yet Veolia cut n27 on weekends to Roslyn, go figure).

n62- duplicated by the n36 and is in within walking distance of many other routes

n57- duplicated by n58, low ridership

 

Frequency adjustments/alterations:

n19 - every other trip ends at Sunrise Mall instead of Babylon (new interline availabilities)

n20 - Too many Hicksville trips in rush hours, I see too many buses going to Hicksville in the PM from Flushing with only a few people

*weekdays all n20 trips from Hicksville run as limited, 30 min headways rush hours, 60 all other times

*local n20 trips start at CW Post instead of Roslyn to service students

n21- Needs to be restored full time, hourly service all times

n23/n27: weekdays n23 30 min rush hour only, 60 min other times, n27 weekdays every 45-60 min all other times other than rush hour (every 30 min at those times)

n27 to Roosevelt Field weekends, 60 min headway, n23 HTC-Manorhaven 60 min headway weekends

n35 evenings and Saturdays - every other trip ends at NCC(RF on Sat) instead of Westbury

n46/n47 - rush hours only

n50- rush hours only

n51 rush hours only

 

 

Maybe I should post these suggestions to Veolia? Oh thats right I did something similar prior to April 8th and they didn't listen. They drive ppl away from successful routes while trying to save the losers, some logic?

 

I would try to convert the losers into successful routes THEN create a rewards program to team up with businesses to give discounts to NICE riders driving up ridership. Time many lines to LIRR better and market them as commuter buses and crosstown linkers. To drive up ridership then perfect the successful lines. And perfect each line to it's highest efficiency. Many weak lines will get merged. And some trips may turn to express trips and maybe manipulate HOV to gain unfair advantage over the car. I've noticed many going to college point and rego park from LIE.

[Vistausss]

LMAO PinePower. What the hell is wrong with people now using a bike? It's way healthier and even cleaner than buses or cars (not that I'm that type of guy, but fact is a fact).

 

Also, it's easy to make such a list of cuts but you have no idea how hard it is to actually come up with and operate such a working system.

[User]

And we all know how they'll do it, cutting back service on busy routes instead of making the hard choices to eliminate the losers (n50, n51,n57,n62,n73,n74,n80,n81). I wont be suprised to see hourly n22 service on weekends even though the buses are already jammed with 30 min headways.

Of course if I were in their shoes I'd work things alot differently. For starters-

Eliminations:

n74 - duplicated by n70/71/72 along Hempstead Turnpike

n80- carries few riders and is near busier n81 (its easier to walk between the 2 routes than n23 & n27 because of LIRR, yet Veolia cut n27 on weekends to Roslyn, go figure).

n62- duplicated by the n36 and is in within walking distance of many other routes

n57- duplicated by n58, low ridership

 

Frequency adjustments/alterations:

n19 - every other trip ends at Sunrise Mall instead of Babylon (new interline availabilities)

n20 - Too many Hicksville trips in rush hours, I see too many buses going to Hicksville in the PM from Flushing with only a few people

*weekdays all n20 trips from Hicksville run as limited, 30 min headways rush hours, 60 all other times

*local n20 trips start at CW Post instead of Roslyn to service students

n21- Needs to be restored full time, hourly service all times

n23/n27: weekdays n23 30 min rush hour only, 60 min other times, n27 weekdays every 45-60 min all other times other than rush hour (every 30 min at those times)

n27 to Roosevelt Field weekends, 60 min headway, n23 HTC-Manorhaven 60 min headway weekends

n35 evenings and Saturdays - every other trip ends at NCC(RF on Sat) instead of Westbury

n46/n47 - rush hours only

n50- rush hours only

n51 rush hours only

 

 

Maybe I should post these suggestions to Veolia? Oh thats right I did something similar prior to April 8th and they didn't listen. They drive ppl away from successful routes while trying to save the losers, some logic?

 

Even though I don't agree with most of those ideas, NICE may be able to reduce service on the n80/81 now with Schmidt out of office, and may decide to reduce on some of the others too.

I would try to convert the losers into successful routes THEN create a rewards program to team up with businesses to give discounts to NICE riders driving up ridership. Time many lines to LIRR better and market them as commuter buses and crosstown linkers. To drive up ridership then perfect the successful lines. And perfect each line to it's highest efficiency. Many weak lines will get merged. And some trips may turn to express trips and maybe manipulate HOV to gain unfair advantage over the car. I've noticed many going to college point and rego park from LIE.

 

Here we go again with the highway HOV ideas...

[FamousNYLover]

Majority of NICE Riders who boards in Nassau are heading to along local streets in Queens and riders who are boarding in Queens Streets goes to Nassau or connect between subway/train.

[Burrstone]

Dammit people crap in your own front yard not mine, couldn't you have posted all of this in any of the other threads that have been brought off topic?

 

This thread was supposed to be about MTA LIB accidents.

[User]

Dammit people crap in your own front yard not mine, couldn't you have posted all of this in any of the other threads that have been brought off topic?

 

This thread was supposed to be about MTA LIB accidents.

 

Hah!