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checkmatechamp13

HART Changes Effective 1/2/13

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Here's their new map. They're going to restructure the routes into an H10, H20, H30, & H40, and they're getting rid of the existing services, including those two rush hour feeder shuttles they have.

 

Here are the existing maps/schedules for reference:

http://huntingtonny....mit_pics/41.pdf (Regular routes)

http://huntingtonny....mit_pics/42.pdf (Feeder shuttles)

 

And here's a modernization report, where they give their logic for the restructuring. It's a long report (173 pages), so I haven't read it yet, but it looks interesting. On page 18, they mention that they used the 2000 census and 2005 estimates. I think the 2010 census would've been more accurate for obvious reasons, but I guess they had already started the research before the results were released (and it wouldn't make a huge difference anyway)

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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The H (whatever bus stops left of the n79 at WWM) seems to have moderate ridership on weekdays but saturdays seem useless

 

I like the coverage on that new system. About time.

Edited by Q23 Central Terminal

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Apparently, they did this report a while back, because they still have the N95 listed as running.

 

In any case, the proposal they originally pushed for is on page 154. They actually wanted a 12 hour span on Saturday, and a fifth route running diagonally from the Commack Shopping Plaza to Cold Spring Harbor along Park Avenue. Instead, they reduced the span to about 9 hours on Saturday, scrapped that Park Avenue route, and extended the H10 in its place. Plus, they also planned to straighten out the H40 in Northport, and eliminate H30 service in Centerport, but they changed that as well.

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Also, apparently they had a meeting about this back in October: http://huntingtonny.gov/hart_bus.cfm

 

The original proposal they gave to the public straightened out the H30 & H40 routes, but apparently the people complained, so they kept the service in those areas, instead of just leaving them with the demand-response service.

 

I notice in the report, they talk about where the bus stops should be placed, and yet the schedule still says that the policy is still to just stand on the corner and flag the bus.

 

I like that Pulaski Road route, because it gives an alternative for when the Huntington-Port Jefferson shuttles don't connect (at least as an alternative to reach Greenlawn & Northport). It would be nice if there was still service down Depot Road, but I guess there's no feasable way to route it efficiently (You'd basically have to make a whole new route for that segment).

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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or reroute S41 yeah good luck with that LOL. I admit that area YOU DON'T EVEN SEE CARS!!!! on saturday afternoons yes I know cause I walked through there from jericho to get to the LIRR!!! Bus service there if it's gonna link to LIRR should be rush hr only with links to all trains and limited friday night and sat night service so ppl don't drive DRUNK!!!!!!!

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or reroute S41 yeah good luck with that LOL. I admit that area YOU DON'T EVEN SEE CARS!!!! on saturday afternoons yes I know cause I walked through there from jericho to get to the LIRR!!! Bus service there if it's gonna link to LIRR should be rush hr only with links to all trains and limited friday night and sat night service so ppl don't drive DRUNK!!!!!!!

 

well every route operates on 90 minute or 120 minute headways on weekends

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or reroute S41 yeah good luck with that LOL. I admit that area YOU DON'T EVEN SEE CARS!!!! on saturday afternoons yes I know cause I walked through there from jericho to get to the LIRR!!! Bus service there if it's gonna link to LIRR should be rush hr only with links to all trains and limited friday night and sat night service so ppl don't drive DRUNK!!!!!!!

 

 

You mean down Pulaski Road? Well, that corridor itself might be empty, but it still provides an alternative to the infrequent LIRR service. (Not to mention it links Huntington riders to the shopping mall, and S56/S58)

 

In any case, you can't reroute the S41 because you still need to serve East Northport.

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You mean down Pulaski Road? Well, that corridor itself might be empty, but it still provides an alternative to the infrequent LIRR service. (Not to mention it links Huntington riders to the shopping mall, and S56/S58)

 

In any case, you can't reroute the S41 because you still need to serve East Northport.

 

I know I walked through that area I know how pointless it is to run off-peak bus lines there without linking major transfer points. the LIRR is infrequent there for a reason its every 75 mins!!!

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I was thinking about the restructuring, and I notice the H20 (I think. I don't feel like looking at the map) basically parallels the S1 for most of its route. I think they might be better off have the H20 go up Oakwood Road (the way the current H9 does), to provide that area with easier access to the WWM, rather than immediately going back to 110 after it serves 11th Street. I think the idea might be to provide some backup to the S1, but if that's the goal, they'd be better off trying to convince SCT to add some service to the S1.

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I was thinking about the restructuring, and I notice the H20 (I think. I don't feel like looking at the map) basically parallels the S1 for most of its route. I think they might be better off have the H20 go up Oakwood Road (the way the current H9 does), to provide that area with easier access to the WWM, rather than immediately going back to 110 after it serves 11th Street. I think the idea might be to provide some backup to the S1, but if that's the goal, they'd be better off trying to convince SCT to add some service to the S1.

 

 

Well it's obious that HART wants SCT to back off, since they are making the H20 run on 110 for half it's route. I think the S56 and H10 should be combined, and thus one can get across suffolk for 2.00 still, but now areas along the combined S56/ S58 route will have more areas and destinations to go to. HART is one example of serving an area that a major transportation system doesnt serve (in general coverage area). Another Example is the Village of Patchogue Service, and Long Beach Bus in Nassau. All of HART's bus routes can be combined into SCT Routes

Edited by Q23 Central Terminal

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Well it's obious that HART wants SCT to back off, since they are making the H20 run on 110 for half it's route. I think the S56 and H10 should be combined, and thus one can get across suffolk for 2.00 still, but now areas along the combined S56/ S58 route will have more areas and destinations to go to. HART is one example of serving an area that a major transportation system doesnt serve (in general coverage area). Another Example is the Village of Patchogue Service, and Long Beach Bus in Nassau. All of HART's bus routes can be combined into SCT Routes

 

 

NICE & SCT don't serve those areas because for whatever reason, those particular areas wanted to run their own transit systems. (Maybe they felt it was cheaper or something) It wasn't because the systems abandoned those areas or something (You probably already know this, but I'm just pointing it out). I don't know what the deal was with Patchogue (isn't that just some little van or something?), but HART & Long Beach Bus were specifically designed by their respective town/city.

 

And yeah, an H10/S56 combination makes sense. It would cover a little more of the PJ Branch's territory (though thinking about it again, I can't see a whole lot of people using it when the next shuttle is too far away. It's nice as a backup in case somebody does actually want to use it, but I can't see it getting tons of usage IRL).

 

I doubt they're really trying to force the S1 off that corridor, because they know they're not going to succeed. The S1 is a straight shot down a major corridor, which is why it gets the ridership it does. The ridership of the S1 is basically double the ridership of the entire HART system. No way would SCT cut back the S1 to WWM. It's more efficient to have it as a single route straight up 110.

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I just realized they got a fare hike to pay for the new service. The new fare is basically SCT's fare.

 

Current fare:

$1.25 per ride

$0.50 senior fare

$0.75 student fare

$0.10 transfer charge

$10 for 10-trip booklet

$4 for senior 10-trip booklet

$28 monthly pass

 

New fare:

$2 per ride

$0.75 senior fare

$1.25 student fare

$0.25 transfer charge

$15 for 10-trip booklet

$6 for senior 10-trip booklet

No monthly pass

 

http://huntingtonny.gov/department_details.cfm?ID=37

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NICE & SCT don't serve those areas because for whatever reason, those particular areas wanted to run their own transit systems. (Maybe they felt it was cheaper or something) It wasn't because the systems abandoned those areas or something (You probably already know this, but I'm just pointing it out). I don't know what the deal was with Patchogue (isn't that just some little van or something?), but HART & Long Beach Bus were specifically designed by their respective town/city.

 

And yeah, an H10/S56 combination makes sense. It would cover a little more of the PJ Branch's territory (though thinking about it again, I can't see a whole lot of people using it when the next shuttle is too far away. It's nice as a backup in case somebody does actually want to use it, but I can't see it getting tons of usage IRL).

 

I doubt they're really trying to force the S1 off that corridor, because they know they're not going to succeed. The S1 is a straight shot down a major corridor, which is why it gets the ridership it does. The ridership of the S1 is basically double the ridership of the entire HART system. No way would SCT cut back the S1 to WWM. It's more efficient to have it as a single route straight up 110.

 

you can't be serious you don't even see cars near that train line during off-hours if traffic is that dismal what makes you think a bus will do any better it would just run empty anyway. LIRR is good enough till MTA decides to double track and electrify that line which needs a speed upgrade cause when you get to nassau in the same time it takes another line to reach jamacia you know something is not right.

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Well it's obious that HART wants SCT to back off, since they are making the H20 run on 110 for half it's route. I think the S56 and H10 should be combined, and thus one can get across suffolk for 2.00 still, but now areas along the combined S56/ S58 route will have more areas and destinations to go to.

 

- Half the route?

The new H20 barely runs on 110, look at the map again.....

 

- Don't agree that the S56 & H10 should be combined....

Not b/c one is HART & one is SCT, but b/c I don't really see much of anyone actually riding all the way to Lake Grove (Smith Haven mall) from w/i the areas that HART normally covers.... As for the 56 itself, just send it to Whitman mall via rt 25 (jericho tpke) & get it over with.....

 

I was thinking about the restructuring, and I notice the H20 (I think. I don't feel like looking at the map) basically parallels the S1 for most of its route. I think they might be better off have the H20 go up Oakwood Road (the way the current H9 does), to provide that area with easier access to the WWM, rather than immediately going back to 110 after it serves 11th Street. I think the idea might be to provide some backup to the S1, but if that's the goal, they'd be better off trying to convince SCT to add some service to the S1.

 

Nah, I don't think the H20 has anything to actually do w/ the S1... For instance, Look at the way the H20 evades LIRR Huntington - I believe that's by design.... So much so that the H20 serves the actual residents in the area, moreso than serving commuters coming from god knows where on the LIRR (that the S1 would continue to serve)...... Two different markets.....

 

Lol.... HART couldn't take riders off the S1 if they tried.

 

 

you can't be serious you don't even see cars near that train line during off-hours if traffic is that dismal what makes you think a bus will do any better it would just run empty anyway.

 

........

 

LIRR is good enough till MTA decides to double track and electrify that line which needs a speed upgrade cause when you get to nassau in the same time it takes another line to reach jamacia you know something is not right.

You're defeating your own argument here..... You're basically saying the buses would be empty off peak, and during peak hours the buses wouldn't be of much help if traffic is as dismal...... LIRR is good enough you say (peak or off peak) right.....

 

.....Then you're actually advocating MORE cars run on the same roads that traffic is as dismal along..... LIRR commuters don't just drop down from the sky; many are driving to/from the RR stations during peak times..... If we're talking public transportation, the aim should be to try to take as many cars off the roads, not add onto them.....

 

How many people do you think live within walking distance of the RR stations up there......

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NICE & SCT don't serve those areas because for whatever reason, those particular areas wanted to run their own transit systems. (Maybe they felt it was cheaper or something) It wasn't because the systems abandoned those areas or something (You probably already know this, but I'm just pointing it out). I don't know what the deal was with Patchogue (isn't that just some little van or something?), but HART & Long Beach Bus were specifically designed by their respective town/city.

 

 

 

 

Huntington was asked to have their routes joined with SCT, but Huntington refused, not because its cheaper for them to run it, but that the county wouldn't spend money equally on their routes for service adjustments and so fourth. Basically the same reason why the county legislature couldn't agree for a full system fare increase to give a couple of routes Sunday Service.

 

I just realized they got a fare hike to pay for the new service. The new fare is basically SCT's fare.

 

Current fare:

$1.25 per ride

$0.50 senior fare

$0.75 student fare

$0.10 transfer charge

$10 for 10-trip booklet

$4 for senior 10-trip booklet

$28 monthly pass

 

New fare:

$2 per ride

$0.75 senior fare

$1.25 student fare

$0.25 transfer charge

$15 for 10-trip booklet

$6 for senior 10-trip booklet

No monthly pass

 

http://huntingtonny....tails.cfm?ID=37

 

 

I don't think their fare increase is solely because of the service adjustments, even if thats what the Town of Huntington says, its probably to eliminate any step up for people transferring from HART to SCT (If there is any). Either that or so riders who use HART and SCT don't have to remember two different sets of fares. (If the latter is true, then it makes sense to say that the fare increase is because of the service changes, because if its to help riders from having to remember two sets of fares, then HART could have changed their fares to SCT's fares years ago.) Though again thats just what I think.

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Nah, I don't think the H20 has anything to actually do w/ the S1... For instance, Look at the way the H20 evades LIRR Huntington - I believe that's by design.... So much so that the H20 serves the actual residents in the area, moreso than serving commuters coming from god knows where on the LIRR (that the S1 would continue to serve)...... Two different markets.....

 

Lol.... HART couldn't take riders off the S1 if they tried.

 

 

I'm not seeing how it's avoiding the LIRR station. It takes 11th Street to Depot Road to NY Avenue, so it passes by the station.

 

But looking at the map again, I do see that it goes and serves Woodhull Road, whereas the S1 stays on NY Avenue (I was under the impression that they both stayed on NY Avenue). So yeah, it looks like they're trying to serve a seperate market.

 

You're defeating your own argument here..... You're basically saying the buses would be empty off peak, and during peak hours the buses wouldn't be of much help if traffic is as dismal...... LIRR is good enough you say (peak or off peak) right.....

 

.....Then you're actually advocating MORE cars run on the same roads that traffic is as dismal along..... LIRR commuters don't just drop down from the sky; many are driving to/from the RR stations during peak times..... If we're talking public transportation, the aim should be to try to take as many cars off the roads, not add onto them.....

 

How many people do you think live within walking distance of the RR stations up there......

 

 

Well, I kind of see what he's saying. When he says "traffic is dismal", he means that there's very little traffic in that area. His logic has always been (not saying I agree with it) that "if there's a lot of cars and traffic from one area to another, a bus route would probably do well serving that market". So in other words, this area is empty, so they shouldn't run a bus through there (and if it resulted in people switching to driving, the road would be able to handle the extra cars).

 

But in any case (this is more directed at him), the reason seems to be more connectivity, rather than actually fulfilling a demand (I mean, you're not really going to have any real "heavy" routes, even comparing it to SCT's routes). Right now, you have routes utlilizing different pieces of Pulaski Road, but to get between the different portions of the road is a PITA. You have that Dolan Family Health Center, and it makes it easier to access it from points east. Plus, you have the Huntington LIRR station. Not that tons of HART riders are really connecting from the LIRR, but there is an obvious advantage to connecting to a major station like that, considering that it has more frequent service, not to mention express service available.

 

I don't think their fare increase is solely because of the service adjustments, even if thats what the Town of Huntington says, its probably to eliminate any step up for people transferring from HART to SCT (If there is any). Either that or so riders who use HART and SCT don't have to remember two different sets of fares. (If the latter is true, then it makes sense to say that the fare increase is because of the service changes, because if its to help riders from having to remember two sets of fares, then HART could have changed their fares to SCT's fares years ago.) Though again thats just what I think.

 

 

Well, they did mention that the costs were increasing, so they probably figured that if they improve the service, they can use this as an opportunity to raise the fare at the same time (to get to whatever farebox recovery ratio they originally intended). So maybe they would've normally raised the fare to $1.50 anyway (without the improvements), but they figure that this could sort of mask that fact.

 

On a side note, here are the schedules for the individual routes (of course, there's still the ones where they're all in one booklet, but still)

 

http://huntingtonny.gov/permit_pics/1471.pdf

http://huntingtonny.gov/permit_pics/1472.pdf

http://huntingtonny.gov/permit_pics/1473.pdf

http://huntingtonny.gov/permit_pics/1474.pdf

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I'm not seeing how it's avoiding the LIRR station. It takes 11th Street to Depot Road to NY Avenue, so it passes by the station.

 

But looking at the map again, I do see that it goes and serves Woodhull Road, whereas the S1 stays on NY Avenue (I was under the impression that they both stayed on NY Avenue). So yeah, it looks like they're trying to serve a seperate market.

Yeah, a mistake... I was looking at this map http://huntingtonny....t_pics/1463.pdf & got confused with "huntington station"....

 

 

Well, I kind of see what he's saying. When he says "traffic is dismal", he means that there's very little traffic in that area. His logic has always been (not saying I agree with it) that "if there's a lot of cars and traffic from one area to another, a bus route would probably do well serving that market". So in other words, this area is empty, so they shouldn't run a bus through there (and if it resulted in people switching to driving, the road would be able to handle the extra cars).

 

During off peak times....

 

He's arguing against a H10/S56 combination & bringing up the LIRR in the process..... Where I'm disagreeing, is his notion that the LIRR is enough for the folks along that part of the PJ line (peak or off peak) because the roads are as empty (off hours), etc. etc...... Regardless if those two routes were to merge or the H10 running as its own route.....

 

By bringing up the emptiness of the roads, he's really questioning the running of the H10 during off hours.... Which is one reason why I said what I did in that last post....

 

If it's solely about his use of the word dismal (more traffic or less traffic), either way his point doesn't make sense.... An area that is devoid of cars during off hours is a stupid reason to not have bus service, period.....

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