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Automatic train operation of the NYC Subway system


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Under a fully automated system whom is responsible for correcting train trouble enroute such as door problems or a brake pipe rupture? Perhaps we're missing something in this discussion ? Different type of equipment ? Without someone filling in the blanks in a more comprehensive manner if we are using today's equipment as an example in the above responses there is only (A), a computer onboard being overseen by a human at another location or (B), the passengers on board. Perhaps they play an automated announcement that "help is on the way" and the riders wait patiently? Just curious about how that would work. Carry on.

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The systems in Paris and London both predate ours and run more frequent service with comparable if not heavier crowding. To dismiss them as irrelevant is plainly ignorant. No, they're not identical, but there's a lot we could learn from them.

 

 

 

Well when the MTA learns about them and how it can help us here ill let you know hows that?

 

Red herring. How many times has the entire CBTC system gone down within the past year?

 

I guess you have problems reading posts i already Said it has happened read my other post in this thread regarding that or do you ignore things like that? Well of coruse you did no response to it.

 

Oh BTW another point there OPTO takes a bit longer to enable and open the doors(i have worked it so i know). So you need to add running times to jobs that have longer routes due to that fact. That means changing work programs, timetables, bus connections, having jobs pay more money now since you got to add the extra running so forth and so on. Things folks like you just dont see on the outside.

 

Read through that description of what happened. How would things have turned out differently if there had been conductors on the trains? In the followup investigation, did anybody suggest that, with conductors on the trains, the terrorists would not have been able to carry out their bombings?

I'm from New York, but I've traveled abroad. Is that supposed to be some sort of badge of shame?

 

You still didnt answer the question ,all you did was ask another question Yes or No works with me. I didnt ask if you traveled abroad nor do i care, i just asked if you lived there.

 

And there's no reason that it wouldn't work.

 

Still cant understand i never said it wouldn't...

 

Great! So it isn't a problem after all!

 

Its never a problem for folks who dont work in the field and dont have to deal with it.

 

I love how you "pick and choose" what to argue most amusing...

 

My Arm Chair RTO Point stands.

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Under a fully automated system whom is responsible for correcting train trouble enroute such as door problems or a brake pipe rupture? Perhaps we're missing something in this discussion ? Different type of equipment ? Without someone filling in the blanks in a more comprehensive manner if we are using today's equipment as an example in the above responses there is only (A), a computer onboard being overseen by a human at another location or (B), the passengers on board. Perhaps they play an automated announcement that "help is on the way" and the riders wait patiently? Just curious about how that would work. Carry on.

 

 

Oh i forgot about the SMEE trains we have here i wonder how they can Automate a R32 or a R42(Two Car classes which OPTO cant work) or a R46 or a R62 or a R62A or a R68 or a R68A...

 

Lets wait until the system gets 100% Tech then we can get into that discussion...

 

I think the R68's are supposed to last what another 15 years?

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Under a fully automated system whom is responsible for correcting train trouble enroute such as door problems or a brake pipe rupture? Perhaps we're missing something in this discussion ? Different type of equipment ? Without someone filling in the blanks in a more comprehensive manner if we are using today's equipment as an example in the above responses there is only (A), a computer onboard being overseen by a human at another location or (B), the passengers on board. Perhaps they play an automated announcement that "help is on the way" and the riders wait patiently? Just curious about how that would work. Carry on.

 

 

Red herring. Nobody here has been discussing ZPTO.

 

Well when the MTA learns about them and how it can help us here ill let you know hows that?

 

 

Let's start with the basics: the MTA has learned from other systems that OPTO is perfectly safe. So rather than trying to be obstructionist under the guise of safety, how about the union work with management to come up with the best possible implementation?

 

I guess you have problems reading posts i already Said it has happened read my other post in this thread regarding that or do you ignore things like that? Well of coruse you did no response to it.

 

 

I will ask again: How many times has the entire CBTC system gone down within the past year?

 

There have been four pages of posts in this thread. I'm sorry if I've missed something. If you've answered this question, please point me to your answer. If not, you can just go ahead and answer right now.

 

Oh BTW another point there OPTO takes a bit longer to enable and open the doors(i have worked it so i know). So you need to add running times to jobs that have longer routes due to that fact. That means changing work programs, timetables, bus connections, having jobs pay more money now since you got to add the extra running so forth and so on. Things folks like you just dont see on the outside.

 

 

Believe me, I see it. So how about coming up with a better way to do OPTO, one that doesn't increase dwell times? Hint: Look at SEPTA.

 

You still didnt answer the question ,all you did was ask another question Yes or No works with me. I didnt ask if you traveled abroad nor do i care, i just asked if you lived there.

 

 

You asked if I'm from England. I answered that I'm from New York.

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I think the (7) wont have those problems. I spoke to one of the guys from Siemens doing it he said "They learned their lessons" From that Garbage on the (L) Line. The Main thing they did was to Upgrade the Signals and Keep them there, not remove them(which was a mistake in a half). So when CBTC takes a Dump they will still be able to go to AWSP (Auxiliary Wayside Protection).and keep the trains moving. No "Stop and Stay" From Queensboro Plaza to 74th Street due to CBTC failure. As for that Slip Slide Chit they im hoping the "Newer" R188's (Not that Converted R142A trash) will not have that issue. The R160's don't seem to have that Problem like those R142's and R143's(Trailer trucks on the A Div Tech trains What a joke that was).

 

Now that makes me feel better about that project. Thanks for that info RTOMan!

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Let's start with the basics: the MTA has learned from other systems that OPTO is perfectly safe. So rather than trying to be obstructionist under the guise of safety, how about the union work with management to come up with the best possible implementation?

 

Let me answer you with the same answer i already gave you several times, When they work out a safe and efficient way of doing it ill let you know apparently they they haven't yet maybe you can send them some ideas...

 

I will ask again: How many times has the entire CBTC system gone down within the past year?

 

All you need to know it HAS happened im sorry if i didnt make it clear...

 

 

Believe me, I see it. So how about coming up with a better way to do OPTO, one that doesn't increase dwell times? Hint: Look at SEPTA.

 

 

 

Dont ask me maybe you should send a Email to the MTA ask them,all you need to know this when they are done figuring it out ill let you know until then you can pay yer fare and enjoy the ride.

 

You asked if I'm from England. I answered that I'm from New York.

 

Along with "I travel abroad" hence my reply saying i dont care about that.....

 

I think i have answered yer questions in a sufficient manner, if anything else relevant comes to mind on the matter please feel free to indulge.

 

Have a good day! :)

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I believe that there should be an operator overseeing any automated system on a train, just, as mentioned previously, there are pilots ultimately in charge of airliners that are fully capable of flying and even landing automatically.

Automation has many advantages. Smoother and more efficient than human, constant full vigilance, no fatigue or other distraction, etc. But there is also the need for redundant backup for additonal safety. Not to mention the confidence of the passengers, knowing that they are 'not alone', that there is an employee with them if any emergency arises....

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Perhaps one of us misunderstood the original post in this thread. If it was me I apologize to everyone in advance. That's why I asked the last question the way I did. Carry on.

 

Yep whats that "Unwritten rule" rule about reading thread before posting that gets some folks nuts??

 

I agree with you ONE of us did misunderstood...

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Let me answer you with the same answer i already gave you several times, When they work out a safe and efficient way of doing it ill let you know apparently they they haven't yet maybe you can send them some ideas...

 

Kindly drop the safety objection. Safety agencies and organizations do not consider OPTO unsafe. The reason OPTO isn't in use on more than a few short lines in New York is that the union hasn't allowed it, because OPTO is detrimental to the union's goal of maximizing its own membership.

 

You are being surprisingly dismissive of any discussion on the matter. This is a discussion board.

 

All you need to know it HAS happened im sorry if i didnt make it clear...

 

Let me try a third time: How many times has the entire CBTC system gone down within the past year?

 

If your answer is "once," that's astonishingly good. Wayside signals can go down too, you know - I was stuck on a train for 45 minutes a few years ago when the AC power system failed and knocked out the signals for several miles.

 

Dont ask me maybe you should send a Email to the MTA ask them,all you need to know this when they are done figuring it out ill let you know until then you can pay yer fare and enjoy the ride.

 

There you go again, stifling discussion on a discussion board. What are you afraid of?

 

Along with "I travel abroad" hence my reply saying i dont care about that.....

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to elaborate by adding four words to the minimal answer to your question.

 

I think i have answered yer questions in a sufficient manner, if anything else relevant comes to mind on the matter please feel free to indulge.

 

Thank you for your permission!

 

Perhaps one of us misunderstood the original post in this thread. If it was me I apologize to everyone in advance. That's why I asked the last question the way I did. Carry on.

 

The original post in the thread was based on a misunderstanding of what ATO means. You certainly don't need to apologize!

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Kindly drop the safety objection. Safety agencies and organizations do not consider OPTO unsafe. The reason OPTO isn't in use on more than a few short lines in New York is that the union hasn't allowed it, because OPTO is detrimental to the union's goal of maximizing its own membership.

 

You are being surprisingly dismissive of any discussion on the matter. This is a discussion board.

 

Not im not im giving you answers but You refuse to accept them when i know you will know(since you dont work down here right?) Ill inform you if you dont believe me well too bad...

 

Let me try a third time: How many times has the entire CBTC system gone down within the past year?

 

If your answer is "once," that's astonishingly good. Wayside signals can go down too, you know - I was stuck on a train for 45 minutes a few years ago when the AC power system failed and knocked out the signals for several miles.

 

If i say it has happened its OBVIOUOS that it did within this past year comprehension issues?

 

There you go again, stifling discussion on a discussion board. What are you afraid of?

 

LOL Lawd not afraid of you or even discussing this, thats for sure please stop trying to pat yerself on the back it looks silly.. Ill tell you again since you dont seem to get it when i say it When they figure it out ill say something until then pay yer fare and have a seat ok ?

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to elaborate by adding four words to the minimal answer to your question.

 

Four meaninglessness words which have nothing to do with the subject at hand...

 

Thank you for your permission!

 

Stop asking the same questions then it looks silly either you take what im saying to you or go and find other answers..

 

The original post in the thread was based on a misunderstanding of what ATO means. You certainly don't need to apologize!

 

Agreed there was a misunderstanding...

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A number of things I see wrong with this thread. Why are users comparing other transit systems around the world to the New York City Subway? Just cause something works thousands of miles away else where doesn't mean it will work here. The system here is so vast that installing CBTC system wide would take decades to do (assuming funding is available to do such a massive amount of work and it's not delayed or pushed back).

 

To the imaginary MTA employees around here the fantasy BS doesn't belong here take it some where else like the chat or something. As for my opinion on this subject goes the CBTC system is probably the best example of money the MTA should not be spending and many users on this thread have already given examples of the ups and downs of the system so I really don't need to go into details why I think it's huge waste of money. That's all folks.

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Having more frequent trains means increasing the overall capacity of the network or line, increasing the capacity means less crowding, less crowding means lower boarding time, lower boarding time means faster services... etc

It is not useless to invest in CBTC system.

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A number of things I see wrong with this thread. Why are users comparing other transit systems around the world to the New York City Subway? Just cause something works thousands of miles away else where doesn't mean it will work here. The system here is so vast that installing CBTC system wide would take decades to do (assuming funding is available to do such a massive amount of work and it's not delayed or pushed back).

 

To the imaginary MTA employees around here the fantasy BS doesn't belong here take it some where else like the chat or something. As for my opinion on this subject goes the CBTC system is probably the best example of money the MTA should not be spending and many users on this thread have already given examples of the ups and downs of the system so I really don't need to go into details why I think it's huge waste of money. That's all folks.

 

CBTC can Work! If the system is done correct the (7) Line hopefully will show that it can.

 

They funny thing about ATO on the (L) its not in effect all the time and CBTC "enables" the C/R Yet full ATO requires No C/R.

 

Go Figure..

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What I think is that Automated Trains ARE GOOD, but the current state that the MTA is in now, its just not feasible. First and foremost If we move to Automation, we need the vehicles and we need the Automated Infrastructure. The trains in my opinion needs to have a method to talk to each other (train). Then, we will still need motormen, Which I think should be in every other train, and if an emergency arises, the emergency intercom would link to the nearest train on that same line. If the MTA can get more trains we can easily get 20+ TPH on most lines (6th Ave Exp can handle 30 TPH easily, and the Local can handle about 27 if no one holds open the doors). Then, there is a way to install tripping sensors on the tracks, were track garbage would not trigger such sensors, since there would be a need for a certain density. The way to implement this is to have a massive data network, and a huge system where trains can communicate over a wireless network when outdoors. In my opinion what would be best is on a train line to be: B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B Train of cars (Where B cars are w/o cabs) then the next train would be a A-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-A train with a train operator in one of the A car cabs, then back to the all B train, and keep switch between the two. This In my opinion would be best.

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