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Aussieinuk

The Complex Issue of Gun Laws in the US

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First of all I am looking at this issue as an outsider. I do not live in the US, so please forgive me if I do not get some of the facts right.This post is not to offend anyone, or your country. I am simply offering my opinion based on what I know. I love America. I think it is a great country, and has some of the nicest people I have ever met. The best thing of all is that we are entitled to free speech.

 

I respect the Second Amendment, and your rights under it, however for the most part I do not agree with it. Based on some quick research I have done in the last couple of days, here's why.

 

 

There are 36569 grocery stores,14098 Mc Donalds, and 129817 Licensed Firearms Dealers in the US.

 

More than 85 people a day are killed with guns and more than twice that number are injured with them.

 

Number of homicides by firearm per 100,000 population.

 

USA 2.97

 

Australia 0.14

 

England & Wales 0.07

 

Average total of all civilian firearms

 

USA 270 million

 

Australia 3 million

 

England & Wales 3.5 million

 

Those figures above are just a small sample of the many different kinds of statistics that I could go into, but I don't think it is necessary. Anyone reading this should already have alarm bells ringing.

 

For me, it is not so much that you can own guns, but it is the types of guns that people are allowed to have I find incredible. I always hear people use the excuse. " I have a gun to protect my family and property ". Are things so bad there that everyone is expecting their house to be burgled? Do you need to have high powered automatic weapons? We have seen what happens when these weapons fall into the wrong hands. If those guns that Adam Lanza used to kill 26 innocent people has not been issued, they would all be alive today.

 

On the same day as the Sandy Hook shootings Van Meyer was arrested in Cedar Lake Indiana. His intention was to go to the John Ball Elementary School and "kill as many people as he could". That school is only 300 yards from his house. Luckily his wife alerted police and another major tragedy was averted. Police found 47 guns and large stocks of ammunition in his home.

 

Does the " average joe" need to have an arsenal of guns to " protect my family and property"?

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I've always felt that people should stick to pistols and shotguns. As you've stated, I don't any rationalization of normal citizens keeping the assault rifles and the auto and semi-automatics. That's way too dangerous for a regular citizen. It's not like burglars and thieves need to be shot by basically war weapons. A simple pistol or handgun can do it.

 

If you ask for my opinion, I'd say that stockpiling the automatics and those guns displays paranoia. That amount of power and weaponry is used by soldiers, guerillas, and the like, which implies some sort of war is being fought. The problems is that I don't see any war occurring that requires a normal citizen to carry those weapons, or that many weapons, especially when the United States is one of the more safer countries in the world. Now, some will say only responsible people should be allowed to keep them. But is it really rational that a normal citizen should have that type of heavy power?

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Let me pose a question to you guys....

 

Do you trust the government?

 

 

If your answer is NO then why would you trust them as being the only ones armed?

 

IMO all tighter gun control will do is prevent the law abiding citizens from being able to own and in some cases carry. If a criminal wants a gun they are going to get a hold of one regardless of the circumstances. Yes, the guns used in sandy hook were legal; they were not registered to Lanza but his mother. Just as how any other criminal gets a hold of a firearm...they steal them. Yes, it is unfortunate that 20 children lost their lives but in reality it could have happened anywhere as long as a deranged individual was willing to commit a crime.

 

 

It was stated that when they want to relinquish our liberties certain "tragedies" will happen so that the government won't force these changes upon us but rather the people will beg them to do it.

 

9/11 resulted in the patriot act, now this may very well be the end of our right to bear arms. They are going down the constitution one by one and the people are falling for it blindly.

Edited by youngblaze
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Guns are not the problem, people are the problem. If lanza had been treated for his condition, this wouldn't have happened. if he didn;t have acess to guns he would have found some other method to go off the deep end. The same day in china, a nut case murdered an older woman and then attacked a school, only this time with a kitchen knife; he sliced poor little kids fingers off. the clearly shows the presense of guns is not the actual issue.

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Guns are not the problem, people are the problem. If lanza had been treated for his condition, this wouldn't have happened. if he didn;t have acess to guns he would have found some other method to go off the deep end. The same day in china, a nut case murdered an older woman and then attacked a school, only this time with a kitchen knife; he sliced poor little kids fingers off. the clearly shows the presense of guns is not the actual issue.

 

There must be a lot of people with a lot of problems if 85 are shot everyday. The chances of 26 people being killed would have been much reduced without resorting to guns. Edited by Aussieinuk
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Let me pose a question to you guys....

 

Do you trust the government?

 

 

If your answer is NO then why would you trust them as being the only ones armed?

 

IMO all tighter gun control will do is prevent the law abiding citizens from being able to own and in some cases carry. If a criminal wants a gun they are going to get a hold of one regardless of the circumstances. Yes, the guns used in sandy hook were legal; they were not registered to Lanza but his mother. Just as how any other criminal gets a hold of a firearm...they steal them. Yes, it is unfortunate that 20 children lost their lives but in reality it could have happened anywhere as long as a deranged individual was willing to commit a crime.

 

 

It was stated that when they want to relinquish our liberties certain "tragedies" will happen so that the government won't force these changes upon us but rather the people will beg them to do it.

 

9/11 resulted in the patriot act, now this may very well be the end of our right to bear arms. They are going down the constitution one by one and the people are falling for it blindly.

 

lol... Gun violence here is really a cultural problem more than anything. In Europe guns are heavily regulated and there aren't many killings with guns, but there is also a culture that doesn't encourage folks trying to use guns in the first place. I think the real question is to what degree do we as a society want guns? People call for regulation when tragedies like this one occurs and then once folks forget about it we go back to normal. Until we figure out our fascination with guns as a society I don't see much changing. We're a society that says I need a gun to protect myself from the other guy in case he's carrying. It's a rather bizarre way of thinking IMO. I'm not so interested in the right to carry or not, but rather why we as a society feel that guns are such a necessity in the first place.

 

Quite frankly the real issue IMO is that we as a society have lost what it is to value a gun. It is not a toy. It is something that causes a great deal of destruction and shouldn't be just used whenever and I think that's the problem. Back in the old days folks had more respect for human life and guns and as a result we didn't so many of these tragic events.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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To go with Kamen Rider, it's like this. We don't blame the cars for the drunk driver accidents. So why do we blame the guns for gun violence?

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To go with Kamen Rider, it's like this. We don't blame the cars for the drunk driver accidents. So why do we blame the guns for gun violence?

 

 

Owning a gun represents a level of self-reliance that is incompatible with liberal doctrine. When you have a group of people that think some people actually make too much money, what did you expect?

 

Utopia is an amusingly attractive thought, but as long as humans are able to make their own choices and decisions, it remains just that: a thought.

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They love to point out how little gun violence there is in places that restrict guns, but what about other violent crimes?

 

What about stabbings?

 

How many stabbings happen on a daily basis in these countries? If you watch Top Gear, when they complain about criminals, they always mention them as "stabbing people" not shooting them. why, becuase since they can't get guns, they resort to knifes.

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The elephant in the room is the media that promotes this sort of behavior. Remove religion from all public areas yet throw kids a copy of GTA and this is what happens. Instead, these Constitutional cherrypickers cry foul about so-called "violations" of the 1st amendment while completely ignoring the 2nd.

 

Business as usual.

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Let me pose a question to you guys....

 

Do you trust the government?

 

 

If your answer is NO then why would you trust them as being the only ones armed?

 

IMO all tighter gun control will do is prevent the law abiding citizens from being able to own and in some cases carry. If a criminal wants a gun they are going to get a hold of one regardless of the circumstances. Yes, the guns used in sandy hook were legal; they were not registered to Lanza but his mother. Just as how any other criminal gets a hold of a firearm...they steal them. Yes, it is unfortunate that 20 children lost their lives but in reality it could have happened anywhere as long as a deranged individual was willing to commit a crime.

 

 

It was stated that when they want to relinquish our liberties certain "tragedies" will happen so that the government won't force these changes upon us but rather the people will beg them to do it.

 

9/11 resulted in the patriot act, now this may very well be the end of our right to bear arms. They are going down the constitution one by one and the people are falling for it blindly.

Maybe we should make a seprate "Do you trust your government" trend. You know, to prevent current topics from being derailed.

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They love to point out how little gun violence there is in places that restrict guns, but what about other violent crimes?

 

What about stabbings?

 

How many stabbings happen on a daily basis in these countries? If you watch Top Gear, when they complain about criminals, they always mention them as "stabbing people" not shooting them. why, becuase since they can't get guns, they resort to knifes.

 

There is more then a thousand ways to injure or kill someone. Fact.

Edited by DJ MC
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They love to point out how little gun violence there is in places that restrict guns, but what about other violent crimes?

 

What about stabbings?

 

How many stabbings happen on a daily basis in these countries? If you watch Top Gear, when they complain about criminals, they always mention them as "stabbing people" not shooting them. why, becuase since they can't get guns, they resort to knifes.

Stabbings occur in Western Europe but it's not rampant. It comes down to living in a civilized society. Countries that promote violence have more violence.

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In the UK from June 2011 to June 2012 there were 193 stabbing deaths using a knife or sharp instrument. Guns accounted for 51 deaths.

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Owning a gun represents a level of self-reliance that is incompatible with liberal doctrine. When you have a group of people that think some people actually make too much money, what did you expect?

 

Utopia is an amusingly attractive thought, but as long as humans are able to make their own choices and decisions, it remains just that: a thought.

 

And again Joe just curious where u a police officer at one point? Why be against ban on basically (I am not 'expert' on guns)military style weapons for the average person who licnesed to have a gun? And if meant lowering the chances of another school masscare why be against background checks.?

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Nope, never. There is no difference between an AR and a typical "hunting rifle". Both fire projectiles. That's it.

 

The "background checks" that the lefties are proposing aren't really background checks. They're just future means to deny everyone the right to bear arms. It starts today with a 5 day waiting period. Tomorrow it's a 5 month waiting period. Then it becomes a 5 year waiting period, effectively, a disenfranchisement of YOUR rights.

 

Never let anyone trample on your rights, because the second you give them an inch, they will take a mile. In 1776, many fought, and many died to secure a future for the rest of America. Why piss all over that?

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It's true what Kamen Rider said....a gun by itself will kill no one...it's indeed the person.

That's true, but it is a person with a gun.

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That's true, but it is a person with a gun.

 

 

It's still the same, like the other example I posted after Kamen's. You're going to blame the car with a drunk person? Of course not, you blame the person. Same sense goes with the gun.

 

I certainly don't think a gun ban will stop any gun violence.

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Nope, never. There is no difference between an AR and a typical "hunting rifle". Both fire projectiles. That's it.

 

The "background checks" that the lefties are proposing aren't really background checks. They're just future means to deny everyone the right to bear arms. It starts today with a 5 day waiting period. Tomorrow it's a 5 month waiting period. Then it becomes a 5 year waiting period, effectively, a disenfranchisement of YOUR rights.

 

Never let anyone trample on your rights, because the second you give them an inch, they will take a mile. In 1776, many fought, and many died to secure a future for the rest of America. Why piss all over that?

 

Thank you!!

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The same politicians/big named activists, I wonder if they would be so quick to be against owning guns if it meant their bodyguards had to follow that same rule.

I can understand big cities with a large police force can basically make the need for guns low or non existent, but you can't apply this for some rural area where you have maybe a handful of cops to patrol a vast stretch of land like Montana or Alaska. And the point with the cars and knives are excellent examples: they can still kill people, yet everyone is quick to target guns because they see it for one function.

 

I disagree about the loose gunshow rules were you can have easy access to guns, but on the same hand, it should not be impossible to own a gun. I mean wouldn't it be fair to get a gun license in the same amount of time it takes to get a driver's license?

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Very interesting responses so far. I can see that the gun issue is definitely cultural and a part of the American psyche . As a foreigner I find this idea of owning a firearm completely alien to me ( unless you are a hunter, farmer, etc. ) It is something I find difficult to understand, however it is your right, and as I said earlier I respect that.

 

I think there must be some sort of compromise to try and prevent any more " Sandy Hooks " atrocity's from happening again. I don't know what the answer is, perhaps limit the type and amount of weapons per household. I only hope that something can be learned so there will be no more massacres.

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Nope, never. There is no difference between an AR and a typical "hunting rifle". Both fire projectiles. That's it.

 

The "background checks" that the lefties are proposing aren't really background checks. They're just future means to deny everyone the right to bear arms. It starts today with a 5 day waiting period. Tomorrow it's a 5 month waiting period. Then it becomes a 5 year waiting period, effectively, a disenfranchisement of YOUR rights.

 

Never let anyone trample on your rights, because the second you give them an inch, they will take a mile. In 1776, many fought, and many died to secure a future for the rest of America. Why piss all over that?

 

 

But in so many other nations, they don't have as loose gun rights as we do here in the US... why do they not protest for these same rights? Because it's not necessary for everyone to have friggin assault rifles in their homes! And don't bring up and BS about how they aren't us, because we are one race, the human race...

 

Also, just to point out, if some insane idiot starts shooting in a crowded place, and 6 people start shooting back, that's 6x the amount of projectiles flying... some food for thought.

 

I don't support a total ban on guns, but I do support crackdowns on guns. For example, you shouldn't be allowed to own more than a handgun unless you have a true reason for a rifle. (Hunting, for example)

Edited by Threxx
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we may all be humans but there is a different environment in Europe, a different mentality there. World War I and WWII was fought in their cities and towns. They survived some of the world's most brutal regimes. They have a different attitude towards violence and guns as a result.

 

I dont think stricter gun control is going to prevent tragedies from happening. That kid could have gotten a firearm on the street illegally, he could have used a knife or made a bomb instead.

 

What we need is to find a way to reach out to these kids, before they grow up into psycho killers. He may have been carrying some deep emotional pain and it stayed bottled up for years and years and when he finally blew the result is a huge tragedy.

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