qjtransitmaster Posted December 29, 2012 Share #51 Posted December 29, 2012 I don't get how this is practical. Sorry for standing up for common sense. PLEASE READ EVERYTHING BELOW BEFORE BASHING!!!! To be honest I will break it down how practical it can be most of it's ROW is isolated all to itself. There is also a lightly used or abandoned set of track that connects amtrak with the hudson line. So it will use the electrification spec that it will share tracks with the most which is hell's gate electrified with catenary wire. There is trackage from bay ridge branch to jackson heights which links to hell's gate so the line can reach hell's gate via that BUT in order to do so tracks need to be rebuilt on rockaway ROW BUT not linked to LIRR tracks so a small segment will be elevated and with 2 tracks over queens blvd where an intermodal station can be built for LIRR and the subway to transfer preferably in elmhurst to link the port washington line. The tracks will eventually merge into trackage near BQE which merges into hells' gate. Then new tracks but short very short only to allow for NW turning onto that ROW near harlem river that track will be disconnected from the hudson line and redirected to GWB terminal over 179th a second track can be added and will be over 178th en rte to GWB. HOWEVER you did open up another possibility that may be another way to work this. The line can instead be separate and go to 125th harlem but I don't think that is practical yet. Reroute of hudson line express trains via new ROW that branches off into the GWB terminal then over amtrak back to it's own line en rte to croton harmon or poughkeepsie. That can be another way to make GWB work. That way this light rail idea may not be needed. However since Q53 is fast maybe a new SBS line from woodside to 125th manhattan via astoria or extension of another either way. Then reroute of hudson line over new trackage via GWB may be the cheaper option. But In a way rail may be the only way to get more cars off the road but I am not sure on SBS vs rail as others here advocate for rail. The rail option expressed first was a way to link as many transit modes as possible. If done one can take NJT of CUSA to GWB from north to this line for LIRR which will be much faster than rotting on I-495 but that is just me. There are several possibilities each with it's own strength and weakness. Past the first page, its Bascially fantasy thoughts you may have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted December 29, 2012 Share #52 Posted December 29, 2012 Do you believe this will happen? Sorry but, this is fantasy. Some people have viable alternatives. Work on making yours more viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted December 30, 2012 Share #53 Posted December 30, 2012 Gentlemen, Let's try to get back on track here.... As for turning the old rail line into a park (which is what the thread is about.... ), I don't think it should be done. A reactivated rail line would make life easier for so many people in Queens (and also in Brooklyn). It would help passengers commute a little easier inside of Queens. It would also help people commute between Brooklyn and Queens a little better. The Rockaways could use more consistent service... I understand the arguments of some of the so called NIMBYs....but perhaps the line could bypass certain neighborhoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexis4Jersey Posted December 31, 2012 Share #54 Posted December 31, 2012 Here are a few of my outside the box solutions to fixing the missing gaps in the Queens and Brooklyn Transit Coverage....each Neighborhood in NYC should either have Rail Service or be within a half mile of a line...reuse Every line in this region....Parks can be built along side the lines....but Rail needs to be expanded in this region. We lag behind other regions in expanding our network , London , Paris , Toronto , Los Angeles , are all expanding their systems at decent clips while NYC decides to turn its old ROW's into parks which doesn't really help anyone. The Cities population is expected to grow to 11 million by 2050 mainly in the outer boroughs , while the Region is expected to grow to 31 million by 2050 without more Rail transit this region will choke by then....its already strained in some areas.... Reactivating the Rockaway Branch is not a Foamers Dream , its a Public transit need... Rockaway Beach Branch New York Penn Station (Grand Central Starting in 2019) Sunnyside JCT Woodside Rego Park South Woodhaven Ozone Park Howard Beach Board Channel Rockaway Beach Regional Connector Croton-Harmon Ossing Scarborough Philipse Manor Tarrytown Irvington Ardsley on Hudson Dobbs Ferry Hasting on Hudson Greystone Glenwood Yonkers Ludlow Riverdale Spuyten Duyvil Marbel Hill University Heights Morris Heights Mott Haven Northern Boulvard - Woodside Queens Boulevard - Elmhurst Ridgewood East New York Canarsie Flatbush Ave Ocean Parkway Bay Ridge St. George Bayonne Port Elizabeth Midtown Elizabeth Elmora Cranford Garwood Westfield Fanwood Netherwood Plainfield Dunellen Bound Brook Raritan Northern Connector Xpress North White Plains White Plains Hartsdale Scarsdale Mount Vernon West Fordham Mott Haven Northern Boulevard - Woodside Queens Boulevard - Elmhurst Forest Hills Kew Gardens Jamaica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 31, 2012 Share #55 Posted December 31, 2012 Here are a few of my outside the box solutions to fixing the missing gaps in the Queens and Brooklyn Transit Coverage....each Neighborhood in NYC should either have Rail Service or be within a half mile of a line...reuse Every line in this region....Parks can be built along side the lines....but Rail needs to be expanded in this region. We lag behind other regions in expanding our network , London , Paris , Toronto , Los Angeles , are all expanding their systems at decent clips while NYC decides to turn its old ROW's into parks which doesn't really help anyone. The Cities population is expected to grow to 11 million by 2050 mainly in the outer boroughs , while the Region is expected to grow to 31 million by 2050 without more Rail transit this region will choke by then....its already strained in some areas.... Reactivating the Rockaway Branch is not a Foamers Dream , its a Public transit need... Rockaway Beach Branch New York Penn Station (Grand Central Starting in 2019) Sunnyside JCT Woodside Rego Park South Woodhaven Ozone Park Howard Beach Board Channel Rockaway Beach Regional Connector Croton-Harmon Ossing Scarborough Philipse Manor Tarrytown Irvington Ardsley on Hudson Dobbs Ferry Hasting on Hudson Greystone Glenwood Yonkers Ludlow Riverdale Spuyten Duyvil Marbel Hill University Heights Morris Heights Mott Haven Northern Boulvard - Woodside Queens Boulevard - Elmhurst Ridgewood East New York Canarsie Flatbush Ave Ocean Parkway Bay Ridge St. George Bayonne Port Elizabeth Midtown Elizabeth Elmora Cranford Garwood Westfield Fanwood Netherwood Plainfield Dunellen Bound Brook Raritan Northern Connector Xpress North White Plains White Plains Hartsdale Scarsdale Mount Vernon West Fordham Mott Haven Northern Boulevard - Woodside Queens Boulevard - Elmhurst Forest Hills Kew Gardens Jamaica NICE man you are very right on the money that was what I was saying earlier build parks along side the rail lines Nexis what ROW does the northern connector express use?? can you map it please thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexis4Jersey Posted December 31, 2012 Share #56 Posted December 31, 2012 NICE man you are very right on the money that was what I was saying earlier build parks along side the rail lines Nexis what ROW does the northern connector express use?? can you map it please thank you. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.000496c9cdea77cff2ae1&msa=0&ll=40.713435,-73.893356&spn=0.351312,0.837021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted December 31, 2012 Share #57 Posted December 31, 2012 Its funny, how I remember reading about this abandoned line about a year ago on here and there were users arguing so strongly that it be turned back into service. But look at this way, Queens has been doing fine with the subway service it has now for years and is constantly getting additions added to their service, for example, the extension. Why do we need another subway line added when a park that everyone can enjoy and keeps the peace and quiet can be preserved in the area? I'm for the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted December 31, 2012 Share #58 Posted December 31, 2012 But the extension is in Manhattan, which doesn't do much for the on the Queens end other than to save a bus transfer to the Javits center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 31, 2012 Share #59 Posted December 31, 2012 Its funny, how I remember reading about this abandoned line about a year ago on here and there were users arguing so strongly that it be turned back into service. But look at this way, Queens has been doing fine with the subway service it has now for years and is constantly getting additions added to their service, for example, the extension. Why do we need another subway line added when a park that everyone can enjoy and keeps the peace and quiet can be preserved in the area? I'm for the park. I wouldn't exactly call thousands of people in the eastern portion having to pile onto slow, overcrowded buses to reach the subway "fine". Yeah, Woodhaven Blvd isn't quite as bad in that area as further east, but it's still far from "fine". And everybody can "enjoy" the subway line too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntExp Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share #60 Posted December 31, 2012 Its funny, how I remember reading about this abandoned line about a year ago on here and there were users arguing so strongly that it be turned back into service. But look at this way, Queens has been doing fine with the subway service it has now for years and is constantly getting additions added to their service, for example, the extension. Why do we need another subway line added when a park that everyone can enjoy and keeps the peace and quiet can be preserved in the area? I'm for the park. Yeah sure, Queens is doing absolutely great w/ it's subway service! Oh no, we don't suffer packed subway rides and numerous delays, we're doing absolutely great! What additions? That "addition" you call of the line extensions is really just there to prop up Bloomberg's Hudson Yards Project. Unlike Manhattan, we're not getting a new subway line built or extended - and Queens needs more subway mileage, not less. You really want to serve Queens - extend the further east to Bayside or Little Neck. Extend the Archer Ave Line to it's intended termini, SE Queens. Extend from 179th to Little Neck Pkwy - in short, Queens is vastly underserved by subway service in it's outer reaches, and those areas are growing rapidly. The area of the proposed QueensWay was always intended to be converted to subway use - which is why the LIRR never formally filed the paperwork to legally abandon it. Where it traverses through, those areas are heavily car dependent, and rely heavily on buses - hello, Q53, Q52, Q11, and Q21! You build this thing out, not only will Queens have better North-South Connections - but it will also provide the Rockaways (if and when the crossings across the Flats come back into service) faster subway service into Manhattan - something they've been clamoring for and rightfully deserve. But the extension is in Manhattan, which doesn't do much for the on the Queens end other than to save a bus transfer to the Javits center. Exactly, and as far as I know, I'm not going to the Javits anytime soon. I wouldn't exactly call thousands of people in the eastern portion having to pile onto slow, overcrowded buses to reach the subway "fine". Yeah, Woodhaven Blvd isn't quite as bad in that area as further east, but it's still far from "fine". And everybody can "enjoy" the subway line too. Exactly. If you see, most of the people who support this are part of Queens CB6 (Forest Hills, Rego Park), and many of them enjoy fast, convient access to Midtown - by converting this into a park, it's as if they're saying, "Hey, we enjoy fast subway access, and we're gonna be egotistical SOB's and deny it to you." It's also important to know that many homeowners along the line illegally extended there yards/properties into the ROW (which, again, is city property), and they want to cover their @sses by having it converted into a park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted December 31, 2012 Share #61 Posted December 31, 2012 I certainly don't think it is fair to call queens service fine. There are severe crowding issues on all the lines except perhaps the J/Z. That said, opening up a new branch line off of the busiest of these lines is not exactly going to solve any of the crowding issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 31, 2012 Share #62 Posted December 31, 2012 https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.000496c9cdea77cff2ae1&msa=0&ll=40.713435,-73.893356&spn=0.351312,0.837021 so about the hell's gate connector is it abandoned or is it in use for freight? To be honest that was the ROW I thought my option would have to use to reach GWB. However that option may not be the best after seeing your map. But tell me what do you intend for that connector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 2, 2013 Share #63 Posted January 2, 2013 I really like how everyone believes that it's the neighborhood that supports the park when it's not true at all. Second Avenue Sagas already mentioned that the people that are arguing against the rail line and are supporting the park idea is a small but a very vocal group. Which means they are talk loud, but they don't make up much. A majority of the neighborhood supports rail, but they aren't as vocal so they can't do much. http://secondavenuesagas.com/2012/12/24/a-park-instead-of-rail-inches-forward-in-queens/ The second problem is I don't know where are all these people that are asking for more parks coming from. The High Line, and every other rail to park idea is the most stupidest thing I have ever heard. The National Park Service already mentions that New York City has the most amount of parks for any city in the United States. Emphasis with capitalization "THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE ALREADY MENTIONED THAT NEW YORK CITY HAS THE MOST AMOUNT OF PARKS FOR ANY CITY IN THE UNITED STATES!" Why do these people encourage that we have more parks when we already have the most parks in the United States? It doesn't make any sense. If people want parks they can move to many of the cities large parks including Fresh Kills Park. Isn't that right? We are behind in many large cities around the world in mass transit. While other people in cities build and focus on reactivating lines for subways we are the most stupidest in asking for more parks and highways. Does anyone in the United States realize that we lag behind in transportation, and we are the largest contributors to global warming as we know it by burning oil? Apparently not. Maybe America needs a giant pie in it's face to realize how far behind it is. We are a laughingstock. We start building high speed rail when countries are already mostly done and are upgrading it. What a shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 2, 2013 Share #64 Posted January 2, 2013 Although I did sound quite harsh I wasn't incorrect, but I think a good idea would be the rail with trails idea. Ozone Park has room for four tracks. It can be turned into a 2 tracked station with 2 outer tracks being a park, Woodhaven Junction could have the trains run on the current location with the park being above it, Brooklyn Manor and Parkside can have trains run on it's tracks while the park will run parallel to the station, and Rego Park is a 6 tracked station. It can have 4 tracks removed with the last two being park of a new 2 tracked station. In the end both sides could win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted January 2, 2013 Share #65 Posted January 2, 2013 NYC also has among the smallest carbon footprints per capita, still. This isn't Los Angeles or Atlanta, two of the biggest culprits in the country. You just wonder if further investment in the outerboros can even be afforded anymore being that the cost of building wasn't what it was when most of the system was built (even with inflation). As I notice, new building/renovation has pretty much been limited to areas that have a major geographical impact over a fairly large area (ESA will affect almost all of Long Island, SAS is not purely just a UES thing). Anything on that abandoned line will be limited to just those communities along it, which is partly why it has remained abandoned to this day. They should have just absorbed it into the system long before, in the same way the Dyre branch was tied in, before it even got in such a state of disrepair. I was always in favor of propositions, in which small elections are held by defined communities for things that will affect those communities (we only hear about the big statewide ones for controversial laws). I wonder how this would do in such a proposition, where only those districts along the abandoned line could vote? In the end while some may cry and complain for a park, others may cry and complain for a rail line that only gets them to midtown faster, but not lower Manhattan btw (assuming the tie-in at Rego Park), is it really all that different from those "near shovel ready" stuff that will never happen as they affect too few people, like extending the (Lefferts branch) and/or out near the Nassau border? I don't call the ready to go, as the other mentioned lines all have tail tracks/structure, and structure is cheap compared to tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted January 4, 2013 Share #66 Posted January 4, 2013 Back on topic. While I feel disappointed about the choice of a park for the Rockaway Line, I understand fears that Forest Hills residents (and those from nearby Middle Village and Glendale, to a lesser extent) have in the sense that the subway would bring larger development to their semi-suburban neighborhoods. That's why I want the LIRR back there, like it used to be instead of a subway. You can say a lot about it but at least that way they have nothing to fear and still have the connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted January 4, 2013 Share #67 Posted January 4, 2013 I really like how everyone believes that it's the neighborhood that supports the park when it's not true at all. Second Avenue Sagas already mentioned that the people that are arguing against the rail line and are supporting the park idea is a small but a very vocal group. Which means they are talk loud, but they don't make up much. A majority of the neighborhood supports rail, but they aren't as vocal so they can't do much. http://secondavenues...ward-in-queens/ The second problem is I don't know where are all these people that are asking for more parks coming from. The High Line, and every other rail to park idea is the most stupidest thing I have ever heard. The National Park Service already mentions that New York City has the most amount of parks for any city in the United States. Emphasis with capitalization "THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE ALREADY MENTIONED THAT NEW YORK CITY HAS THE MOST AMOUNT OF PARKS FOR ANY CITY IN THE UNITED STATES!" Why do these people encourage that we have more parks when we already have the most parks in the United States? It doesn't make any sense. If people want parks they can move to many of the cities large parks including Fresh Kills Park. Isn't that right? We are behind in many large cities around the world in mass transit. While other people in cities build and focus on reactivating lines for subways we are the most stupidest in asking for more parks and highways. Does anyone in the United States realize that we lag behind in transportation, and we are the largest contributors to global warming as we know it by burning oil? Apparently not. Maybe America needs a giant pie in it's face to realize how far behind it is. We are a laughingstock. We start building high speed rail when countries are already mostly done and are upgrading it. What a shame! High-speed rail as in being there or functioning? 'Cause I know only a few countries who actually have high-speed working like it should. My country for example has a bad reputation at the moment because we allow high-speed trains but no actual high speeds. And our high speed train authority is nearly bankrupt. And this applies to more countries. In some countries it works good like France, China, Japan and to some extent Germany. But in a lot of countries there are tons of problems along with it or no high-speed gains like in my country. So USA is behind in that regard? A little, but not as much as you think. And when it comes to cities then NYC has one of the best networks a city can have. I'm not saying it's the best but a lot of cities around the world can learn from 'em to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 12, 2013 Share #68 Posted January 12, 2013 Here is the opinion from the people that live around the area. http://www.qchron.com/editions/south/queensway-plan-gets-boost-from-state-criticism-from-opponents/article_c3d9e79e-bcd1-50b7-a695-b6abe81e4cb3.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted January 12, 2013 Share #69 Posted January 12, 2013 In other words, still no clear decision either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 12, 2013 Share #70 Posted January 12, 2013 Basically it seems like this would mean another 50 years of nothing being done on the ROW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted January 12, 2013 Share #71 Posted January 12, 2013 Well if it means another 50 yrs of nothing, then it's better than turning it into a park. The city just needs to make sure there's no more illegal extensions onto the row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 15, 2013 Share #72 Posted January 15, 2013 NYC also has among the smallest carbon footprints per capita, still. This isn't Los Angeles or Atlanta, two of the biggest culprits in the country. You just wonder if further investment in the outerboros can even be afforded anymore being that the cost of building wasn't what it was when most of the system was built (even with inflation). As I notice, new building/renovation has pretty much been limited to areas that have a major geographical impact over a fairly large area (ESA will affect almost all of Long Island, SAS is not purely just a UES thing). Anything on that abandoned line will be limited to just those communities along it, which is partly why it has remained abandoned to this day. They should have just absorbed it into the system long before, in the same way the Dyre branch was tied in, before it even got in such a state of disrepair. I was always in favor of propositions, in which small elections are held by defined communities for things that will affect those communities (we only hear about the big statewide ones for controversial laws). I wonder how this would do in such a proposition, where only those districts along the abandoned line could vote? In the end while some may cry and complain for a park, others may cry and complain for a rail line that only gets them to midtown faster, but not lower Manhattan btw (assuming the tie-in at Rego Park), is it really all that different from those "near shovel ready" stuff that will never happen as they affect too few people, like extending the (Lefferts branch) and/or out near the Nassau border? I don't call the ready to go, as the other mentioned lines all have tail tracks/structure, and structure is cheap compared to tunnel. to nassau county border shovel ready? are tracks there all the way out like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 16, 2013 Share #73 Posted January 16, 2013 NYC also has among the smallest carbon footprints per capita, still. This isn't Los Angeles or Atlanta, two of the biggest culprits in the country. Actually, I heard that LA isn't that bad with the carbon footprint. People talk about the suburban sprawl out there, but it's dense sprawl, and the streets are fairly grid-like, which means transit use is actually fairly high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 16, 2013 Share #74 Posted January 16, 2013 Actually, I heard that LA isn't that bad with the carbon footprint. People talk about the suburban sprawl out there, but it's dense sprawl, and the streets are fairly grid-like, which means transit use is actually fairly high. and to boot their bus ridership is 2nd only to drumroll please MTA NYCT ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted January 16, 2013 Share #75 Posted January 16, 2013 Here is the opinion from the people that live around the area. http://www.qchron.com/editions/south/queensway-plan-gets-boost-from-state-criticism-from-opponents/article_c3d9e79e-bcd1-50b7-a695-b6abe81e4cb3.html Good find. It's true that there are people opposed to both ideas. What was interesting is that Ed Wendell of the Woodhaven Residents’ Block Association said that he would be open to restoring the Rockaway Line up to Atlantic Ave and having them turn west there. That sounds better than letting the whole thing continue to sit there unused or be turned into a Queensway. However, that would require turning the entire Atlantic branch from Flatbush Avenue to Jamaica over to NYC transit. And it would require a track connection to one of the existing B-Division tunnels between Brooklyn and Manhattan (Montague , Cranberry , or Rutgers ). That will be expensive. Though I would prefer doing that over letting the line sit there unused for another 50 years or be turned into a glorified High Line without the tourist appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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