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jgood6195

Should PATH merge with NJT?

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This would be to give NJT it's own Subway and for easy connection to other NJT services such as the hudson lightrail and local bus routes. Should they do it?

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Yes for the end to the ridiculous photo policy. No if they aren't gonna take MetroCard.

 

But from a real world perspective, the PA is operating PATH just fine and isn't looking to end its operation of the system.

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PA is maintaining the PATH just fine, so no

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Well, this is my opinion, so I understand that there might be some people that might not agree to this, and I respect that, but from my point of view, NJT to me is more of an "Amtrak for New Jersey" kind of thing, if you know what I mean. It's not really a "subway," like PATH is, so I think that PATH should not merge with NJT. To me, NJT is more of a suburban/rural transportation system and PATH is more of an urban transportation system. But then again, I'm not from New Jersey, so I don't know what New Jerseyans/New Jerseyites think.

 

Zachary :)

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As far as a physical takeover, NO, but NJT needs to better coordinate fare options with both port authorities {PANYNJ and DRPA] to eliminate the "double fare" mess and cross honoring their smartcards.

 

In South Jersey, NJT needs to make the feeder routes to PATCO stations more convenient to use [more frequent service would be a start, and routings to major job sites, malls and hospitals.]. The extremely lousy service on the routes is a nasty legacy of the shotgun marriage forced upon TNJ and PATCO in the 70's.

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As far as a physical takeover, NO, but NJT needs to better coordinate fare options with both port authorities {PANYNJ and DRPA] to eliminate the "double fare" mess and cross honoring their smartcards.

 

In South Jersey, NJT needs to make the feeder routes to PATCO stations more convenient to use [more frequent service would be a start, and routings to major job sites, malls and hospitals.]. The extremely lousy service on the routes is a nasty legacy of the shotgun marriage forced upon TNJ and PATCO in the 70's.

 

I see.

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As far as a physical takeover, NO, but NJT needs to better coordinate fare options with both port authorities {PANYNJ and DRPA] to eliminate the "double fare" mess and cross honoring their smartcards.

 

In South Jersey, NJT needs to make the feeder routes to PATCO stations more convenient to use [more frequent service would be a start, and routings to major job sites, malls and hospitals.]. The extremely lousy service on the routes is a nasty legacy of the shotgun marriage forced upon TNJ and PATCO in the 70's.

 

why thank you this is why lines like 455,450 don't have the high ridership they need.

 

look at 451 nuff said

Edited by qjtransitmaster

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If anything, the MTA would take over PATH. The PA never wanted PATH in the first place and only took over operation from H&M so they could build the World Trade Center.

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Oy. After all the shitstorm that NJT and PATH took after Sandy, you think they want to merge, or NJT take over PATH? That would be a disaster waiting to happen. If I can recall correctly, NJT does not have one 24/7 Rail line (Correct me someone from NJT Trains if I'm wrong). PATH has a great system with their 24 hour system with a fare that is better than NJT when it comes to JC to NYC or NWK to NYC. If NJT was to take over, who wants to bet NJT would jack that price so high that people might not WANT to take it? Or if NJT leaves the price alone, sooner or late, someone will be whining about (Well, why don't NJT do the same for us? Why do the PATH service pay a lower price when we have to pay higher?) As sad as this sounds, especially from a former NJT operator that loves this company for reasons that some might not understand, NJT is not balanced correctly with the fare pricing, as well as the cross honoring ticket system. I do agree that there are too many zones with buses and rail, yet it is needed to pay for each head that boards and discharges at certain stops. I don't think it would be fair to charge someone $5.50 to go from NY Penn Sta to Secaucus while another person pays the same price to go from NY Penn to Trenton. Someone would have a right to say, "Well, hey, I'm going someplace closer, how about a discounted price?". Hell, a ton of B/O that I know hate to overcharge someone just because they're one block over a zone boundary. For example, on the 123, Zone 3 TECHNICALLY begins at Paterson Plank Road going to Jersey City, and ends at the Congress Street Station going to New York. Yet, due to having some 123 short turns (Stopping at Congress Street instead of continuing to Christ Hospital), some B/O allow passengers to get off on Congress and Palisades and only let them pay the 2 zone fare. Two blocks next is another stop and it's a 3 zone fare trip. I hate those because I'm like, it's only two blocks, give the person a break. And, I have a few times when they were short or only had a 2 zone pass. This was before cameras got in the buses, and then I had to really watch it because NJT has spotters and I don't want them to think I'm stealing fares. The point is that there needs to be a better fare structure to allow anything to work. MTA has the right idea and I think NJT could benefit from what NJT does. While MTA doesn't cover a entire state like NJT does, MTA covers more people than NJT, even after NICE took over Nassau County. So, right now, NJT needs to do a ton of things before taking over something.

- Better Emergency Management (Sandy was one hell of a wakeup call)

- Better Efforts to get news to the public and information more clear and precise (Remember the NYTimes Article that I was mentioned on?)

- Better ways to get systems back working faster but also keeping safety in mind

- Better ways to get money from all customers but without letting them feel that they're not really gaining anything for the money they are paying for the services that NJT is providing

- Better fare structure and cross honoring so people can have more than one option without being restricted (Train can board bus but bus can't board train unless there is a emergency)

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Oy. After all the shitstorm that NJT and PATH took after Sandy, you think they want to merge, or NJT take over PATH? That would be a disaster waiting to happen. If I can recall correctly, NJT does not have one 24/7 Rail line (Correct me someone from NJT Trains if I'm wrong). PATH has a great system with their 24 hour system with a fare that is better than NJT when it comes to JC to NYC or NWK to NYC. If NJT was to take over, who wants to bet NJT would jack that price so high that people might not WANT to take it? Or if NJT leaves the price alone, sooner or late, someone will be whining about (Well, why don't NJT do the same for us? Why do the PATH service pay a lower price when we have to pay higher?) As sad as this sounds, especially from a former NJT operator that loves this company for reasons that some might not understand, NJT is not balanced correctly with the fare pricing, as well as the cross honoring ticket system. I do agree that there are too many zones with buses and rail, yet it is needed to pay for each head that boards and discharges at certain stops. I don't think it would be fair to charge someone $5.50 to go from NY Penn Sta to Secaucus while another person pays the same price to go from NY Penn to Trenton. Someone would have a right to say, "Well, hey, I'm going someplace closer, how about a discounted price?". Hell, a ton of B/O that I know hate to overcharge someone just because they're one block over a zone boundary. For example, on the 123, Zone 3 TECHNICALLY begins at Paterson Plank Road going to Jersey City, and ends at the Congress Street Station going to New York. Yet, due to having some 123 short turns (Stopping at Congress Street instead of continuing to Christ Hospital), some B/O allow passengers to get off on Congress and Palisades and only let them pay the 2 zone fare. Two blocks next is another stop and it's a 3 zone fare trip. I hate those because I'm like, it's only two blocks, give the person a break. And, I have a few times when they were short or only had a 2 zone pass. This was before cameras got in the buses, and then I had to really watch it because NJT has spotters and I don't want them to think I'm stealing fares. The point is that there needs to be a better fare structure to allow anything to work. MTA has the right idea and I think NJT could benefit from what NJT does. While MTA doesn't cover a entire state like NJT does, MTA covers more people than NJT, even after NICE took over Nassau County. So, right now, NJT needs to do a ton of things before taking over something.

- Better Emergency Management (Sandy was one hell of a wakeup call)

- Better Efforts to get news to the public and information more clear and precise (Remember the NYTimes Article that I was mentioned on?)

- Better ways to get systems back working faster but also keeping safety in mind

- Better ways to get money from all customers but without letting them feel that they're not really gaining anything for the money they are paying for the services that NJT is providing

- Better fare structure and cross honoring so people can have more than one option without being restricted (Train can board bus but bus can't board train unless there is a emergency)

 

to be honest there is zero benefit to the bus pass beyond 6 zones as it's the same price as the rail pass but with less perks.

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Rail Rail Rail Rail. Dude, people might not want to take the rail. There is something called OPTIONS. If I want to take the train to NY or the Bus to NY, it's My Choice. I think half the time, you just want people to take ONE option and that's it.

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Rail Rail Rail Rail. Dude, people might not want to take the rail. There is something called OPTIONS. If I want to take the train to NY or the Bus to NY, it's My Choice. I think half the time, you just want people to take ONE option and that's it.

 

DUDE you did not read I said EVEN if you don't use rail the rail pass does not cost you extra once you go above zone 6. Meaning the crosshonoring between bus and rail is NOT broken. Except PATCO and PATH and non NJT buses but otherwise passes if you want bus AND rail GET A RAIL PASS!!!!!! But NJT has mis communication in how the passes work. I am not bashing any one mode.

 

However I do believe there needs to be inter modal continuing trip tickets for easier travel FYI it is annoying that only monthly rail passes work on all modes. all other passes like weekly rail and bus don't give you bus service beyond 2 zones and don't cross-honor.

Edited by qjtransitmaster

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I think PATH should stay with Port Authority though for a time I wished NJT would take it over because of the horrible mismanagement at the PA.

 

To address the fare structure, I really believe that the PA should follow PATCO's fare structure. My proposal would be as follows given the already approved fare hikes:


Newark/Harrison to NY fares would be highest: 2.75

JC/HOB to NY-fares would be high.. 2.50

Intra-NY, Intra Jersey City, fares would be lowest 1.75


Fares to Harrison or Hoboken from JC/HOB would be 2.00

10 trip discounts would be available and monthly passes could be offered.


 

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I think PATH should stay with Port Authority though for a time I wished NJT would take it over because of the horrible mismanagement at the PA.

 

To address the fare structure, I really believe that the PA should follow PATCO's fare structure. My proposal would be as follows given the already approved fare hikes:

 

Newark/Harrison to NY fares would be highest: 2.75

JC/HOB to NY-fares would be high.. 2.50

Intra-NY, Intra Jersey City, fares would be lowest 1.75

 

Fares to Harrison or Hoboken from JC/HOB would be 2.00

 

10 trip discounts would be available and monthly passes could be offered.

 

 

 

The problem with your idea is that PA keep rising the tolls. Remember that PA is going to (if they haven't started already) do a complete reconstruction of BOTH the PABT and GWBBS. That takes money that the PA do not have unless they get it from somewhere, hense the toll crossing. I don't think for a MINUTE that PA gives any bus carrier a discount by using their tunnels and their buildings, especially when NJT is probably paying for using THEIR space. In a perfect world, that fare scheme would be lovely, but we live in a paranoid inperfect world.

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I think PATH should stay with Port Authority though for a time I wished NJT would take it over because of the horrible mismanagement at the PA.

 

To address the fare structure, I really believe that the PA should follow PATCO's fare structure. My proposal would be as follows given the already approved fare hikes:

 

Newark/Harrison to NY fares would be highest: 2.75

JC/HOB to NY-fares would be high.. 2.50

Intra-NY, Intra Jersey City, fares would be lowest 1.75

 

Fares to Harrison or Hoboken from JC/HOB would be 2.00

 

 

10 trip discounts would be available and monthly passes could be offered.

 

 

 

 

How can it be mismanagement that the PANYNJ spends money on PATH so that is mismanagement?

Edited by theaveragejoe

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How can it be mismanagement that the PANYNJ spends money on PATH so that is mismanagement?

 

I didn't state that the PA is mismanaging the PATH.

 

As a whole, the agency is dysfunctional.

 

This headline from the Staten Island Advance should sum it up: Audit finds Port Authority bloated, incompetent, wasteful of toll money

 

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/scathing_audit_flays_inept_por.html

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