MTA Considers Partition on Subway Platforms

[qjtransitmaster]

Well, I am not saying that New York subway should install platform doors but I disagree with this argument.

There many subway system with millions of daily riders and people constantly moving in and out of trains that have platform doors.

In many of those networks, platform doors were added several decades after the construction of the stations.

Paris metro built platform door in 110 years old stations and Paris metro ridership is quite similar to New York subway. (NYC: 1;6 billion, Paris: 1.5 billion)

 

The cheaper and lighter half height platform doors are more suited for old platforms that usually can not support the weight of of full height platform doors.

Usually half height platform doors used moslty in Asia are quite small (3ft3) but in Paris ours are over 5ft6 tall.

At this height, it is difficult or even impossible to push someone in the tracks, difficult to jump for suicide and impossible to fall accidently

These doors work independently, so you can install them in several step.

 

On the other hand, I find the arguments used in NYC in favor of the platform doors are also quite wrong.

In Paris, by exemple we didn't install doors to prevent suicides or murders but to have a safer and better operation in busy stations and to improve the service for driverless operation and for driver operation (with CTBC).

 

By example when a train driver arrives in a station with overcrowded platform, he tends to operate the train at slower speed for more safety. He acts with caution.

Unfortunately, a slower speed at the arrival means a longer time in station and a longer time in station means more delay, more delays means less trains per hour in station, less train per hour means less capacity for line and more crowding. This is a bad spiral. Services is bad and you are carrying less passengers.

When you have 38 train per hours on the line, every second count.

 

So, MTA should not built platform doors only to prevent murders or suicides but for improving the service.

If it is not the case, it is better to not built those doors and spend money on other things.

THE GENIUS HAS SPOKEN!!!!!!! I never looked at it like that but that is an excellent argument you hit 2 birds with 1 stone on this improve service and prevent subway train deaths nice one. You sir rock.

[Quill Depot]

There are less crowds in Paris.

[GojiMet86]

There are less crowds in Paris.

 

He just wrote that ridership is similar:

NYC: 1.6 billion

Paris: 1.5 billion

 

From the MTA's own page:

http://www.mta.info/...ts/ffsubway.htm

Annual Subway Ridership

1. Tokyo 3.151 billion (2010)

2. Moscow 2.389 billion (2011)

3. Beijing 2.180 billion (2011)

4.Shanghai 1.884 billion (2010)

5. Seoul 1.769 billion (2010)

6. Guangzhou 1.640 billion (2011)

7. New York City 1.640 billion (2011)

8. Paris 1.506 billion (2010)

9. Mexico City 1.410 billion (2010)

10. Hong Kong 1.378 billion (2011)

"Less crowded" isn't an excuse for the 5 cities with more ridership.

 

And I'll use this:

Weekday Ridership:

MTA

2011 5,284,295

Paris

Year not given 4,500,000

[Drag0nflamez]

He just wrote that ridership is similar:

 

NYC: 1.6 billion

Paris: 1.5 billion

 

And I'll use this:

 

Weekday Ridership:

 

MTA

2011 5,284,295

Paris

Year not given 4,500,000

Paris has 245 stations. NYC has 468 (double).

 

So Paris is actually more busy, because those 1.5 billion have to use 245 stations, and NYC's 1.6 billion 468 stations.

[Minato ku]

The weekday ridership of Paris metro is above 5 million passengers.

The 4.7 million passengers figure doesn't include the metro passengers coming from the RER RATP.

It is like if New York subway figure was excluding passengers of the subway coming from the LIRR or Metro North because it is managed by the same company.

 

 

Paris has 245 stations. NYC has 468 (double).

 

So Paris is actually more busy, because those 1.5 billion have to use 245 stations, and NYC's 1.6 billion 468 stations.

It is 302 actually, the 245 stations figure is the number of stations located inside Paris city limits.

[Cait Sith]

There are less crowds in Paris.

 

Don't speak of what you don't know, please.

[Metro CSW]

Haa Damn Quill........

[Quill Depot]

Don't speak of what you don't know, please.

 

Nevermind.

[lilbluefoxie]

Im not in favor of this idea, its costly, unsightly in the stations and people will find a way to damage it someway or another, plus if the train stalls or gets stuck halfway down the platform people are gunna be trapped on the train. People should just use more common sense and not stand too close to the edge, and if theres a crazy person around just keep a wide distance.

 

furthermore, millions of people ride the subways without any injury or difficulty, why should we bend over backwards because two or three people happened to get run over and made the news about it. The amount of people that get killed are such a small fraction of the overall people that ride the subway, it shouldn't be anything the MTA should be concerned over.

[peacemak3r]

As Cait Sith noted, a cop in every station will NOT stop shit like this from happening. It'll cause more over-time for NYPD and probably raise taxes at that as well.

[lilbluefoxie]

As Cait Sith noted, a cop in every station will NOT stop shit like this from happening. It'll cause more over-time for NYPD and probably raise taxes at that as well.

 

 

its like why do we need a cop to babysit adults in these stations, have em go to where the crime is.

[N6 Limited]

I saw those barriers in Paris, but it was on one subway line.

[CDTA]

Money is always going to be the obvious issue to implementation. We're in the middle of a discussion.

 

 

^^Took me 45 minutes to find that quote^^

[8thAveExpress]

^^Took me 45 minutes to find that quote^^

 

 

In those 45 minutes you could have saved 15% on your car insurance by switching to Geico. Three times.

[Nexis4Jersey]

In general... you would have to open both doors, the ones on the platform and the one on the train. Any mistake would significantly increase idling and delay trains behind.

 

 

They open auto in relation with the train , sensors on the train tell the doors to open or close as can seen with the Airtrain or various metros not all are Automated you just need to pull the train in , all the way to line things up.

[RTOMan]

This will die down again, I suggest we die down on this topic as well.

 

 

Looks like that advice went bye bye...

[Drag0nflamez]

Of course, the problem with the doors is that all door configurations on trains must be the same. On the and somewhere in the future the , that shouldn't be much of a problem. But on parts of the system with a mixed fleet, such as the 7th Avenue line (R62/A and R142) and the South Brooklyn IND (R46, R68/A and R160), this will form a problem. Only when all door configurations are standardized, this problem will finally be gone.

[Metro CSW]

On a separate topic, regarding the recent subway platform pushings, transit officials say they’re exploring the possibility of platform-edge barriers and may consider a pilot program on a station along the .

Source: NY1

[Art Vandelay]

I doubt that you would have a problem with anything on the A division. Door positions are similar enough. While the NYC subway is old and very crowded, the 1 line in paris which has such doors is older and more crowded than anything in NYC. Anyone who says Paris doesn't have crowding has no idea what they are talking  about. The 1 in Paris is so crowded that the line built to relieve crowding on it (the A) itself needed a line to relieve crowding on it (the 14)!!

[FamousNYLover]

New Roosevelt Island Tramway also has sliding doors and during rush hour, tram cabins are packed, but still it will not work in subway because there are lots of different doors depends on subway fleets and they all not at same place.

[Art Vandelay]

You do not have cars with identical door placements system wide now, but such is not really a problem. Nearly half of the system can only handle cars of a specific design, or such will become true in the next 5 years.

 

Places where this could be done now or in the next few years-

1. The entirety of the A division (can all be done now R62/R142 are similar enough to design a system which could deal with both). 

2. The entirety of the Eastern division (L can be done now, J/M in a few years when R179s come in)

3. The entire Queens IND ( can be done in a few years when CBTC comes). 

 

 

I would probably only do such on lines with CBTC in place, perhaps as part of installation,  but door placement won't be what stops it from being put up in the eastern division or A division. 

[Fan Railer]

You do not have cars with identical door placements system wide now, but such is not really a problem. Nearly half of the system can only handle cars of a specific design, or such will become true in the next 5 years.

 

Places where this could be done now or in the next few years-

1. The entirety of the A division (can all be done now R62/R142 are similar enough to design a system which could deal with both). 

2. The entirety of the Eastern division (L can be done now, J/M in a few years when R179s come in)

3. The entire Queens IND ( can be done in a few years when CBTC comes). 

 

 

I would probably only do such on lines with CBTC in place, perhaps as part of installation,  but door placement won't be what stops it from being put up in the eastern division or A division. 

Even so, remember the old thread with the flexible PSDs that were advertised? If the MTA really wanted to do this, that is always an option.

[B to Brighton]

Well i don't know if you guys ever heard about the subway of São Paulo City. It's considered the most crowded subway in the world, since the population of São Paulo is 12 milions and they have only 11 subway lines. Anyway, the trains around there make the and look empty. Even during middays, the headways are about 2 minutes. During rush-hours they have a headway of 75 seconds in some lines. And many crowded stations have those platform doors. They really help a lot. They direct the crowd to the right point making it easier to board, it doesn't slow down the time of stop/go on the station since the platform doors open/close together with the train doors. The A division should get these platform doors (they are large so, a small difference, for example, between the R62s and R142s, wouldn't be a problem) and for the B division i just think about the . For the other lines i don't know how they would do it for reasons we all know. 

 

 

This picture shows the 4 Line at Luz station during midday.

[Metro CSW]

^ Hmm, love the set up there.

 

Wait.... Here's hoping nobody is stupid enough to claim over the barrier like a fence....

 

....just sayin'

[lilbluefoxie]

theres still issues on the A-division, the doors on the R142/As are wider than the R62/A doors, plus they aren't automated. People should just learn not to lean over the edge, stay away from hobos and hang near the wall or the middle of the platform (on island platform stations)