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MTA Considers Partition on Subway Platforms


Cait Sith

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The injuries, alright. I'll buy that. But why are the costs a problem? I mean, of course, the money isn't directly there but if they build a new station they do it to get more customers = more profit. Why wouldn't 1 Ave-United Nations be a protifable station? Is it because the (L) already has a station at 1 Ave?
well it's the un, perhaps security reasons. I'm sure they could've kept the old city hall loop open as a museum annex if it wasn't for being below the building.
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The politicians that visit the UN comes in by car. They don't ride the subway into the UN Building. Such a station will not see much use. At least not as much as you think, and it won't be built again due to technical challenges.

 

Anyway this is about platform screen doors not new subway stations. We should get back on topic.

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The politicians that visit the UN comes in by car. They don't ride the subway into the UN Building. Such a station will not see much use. At least not as much as you think, and it won't be built again due to technical challenges.

 

Anyway this is about platform screen doors not new subway stations. We should get back on topic.

 

You don't know how they will arrive. Never heard about GCTWA? http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html

He did it to the WA, so maybe someone else will too to the UN.

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well it's the un, perhaps security reasons. I'm sure they could've kept the old city hall loop open as a museum annex if it wasn't for being below the building.

 

Is much as I am absolutely all for for this it will not happen any time soon I'm assuming as since City Hall Station is practically right under City Hall that creates a security concern. (This came out of the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001 at the orders of Rudolf Guliani) 

 

That's why as Snowblock mentioned in an unrelated thread that riding through City Hall is prohibited, according to what he said.

 

Edit: Reading is fundamental. GC touched on that already.

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IMO lets just put more cameras on the platforms. Closed door partitions are the obstacles of OTP.

 

so we can be like London and be watched wherever we go? no thanks.

 

riding through City Hall is prohibited, according to what he said.

 

If thats the case it's rarely enforced. Since plenty of rail buffs and other riders ride thru the loop.

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The injuries, alright. I'll buy that. But why are the costs a problem? I mean, of course, the money isn't directly there but if they build a new station they do it to get more customers = more profit. Why wouldn't 1 Ave-United Nations be a protifable station? Is it because the (L) already has a station at 1 Ave?

 

Nah, it has nothing to do with the (L) being there, especially since it's like a mile and a half further south. Part of it has to do with the catchment area (With the (L), you still have a lot of land/development left east of 1st Avenue, whereas with this, you're almost at the water, and aside from that, you probably won't get tons of ridership from the UN itself, so you have to depend on the area west of it for ridership). That wouldn't be too bad, but combine it with the steep grade (and associated safety issues) and the fact that you're trying to build it into an already-existing line, and the costs would be too high to justify it.

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so we can be like London and be watched wherever we go? no thanks.

 

You mean that isn't happening already??

 

and lets be honest.  what if it is? How many of us here are honestly wondering who's watching us as we go about our daily lives?  I don't know about you but I don't find myself looking over my shoulder all the time as I walk around.  This is one of those things nobody really thinks about until its brought up for discussion; unless they're paranoid/got something to hide/an extreme activist

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If thats the case it's rarely enforced. Since plenty of rail buffs and other riders ride thru the loop.

 

 

Love to chance it and do it but I'm in no mood to end up at the MTA Abduction Buerau with a trespassing ticket for $100 dollars or worse yet arrested. Otherwise hell yeah I would railfan the loop otherwise.

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Love to chance it and do it but I'm in no mood to end up at the MTA Abduction Buerau with a trespassing ticket for $100 dollars or worse yet arrested. Otherwise hell yeah I would railfan the loop otherwise.

 

I do it all the time.  Nobody cares.  If I see the uptown six just left I'll go sit on the one getting ready to circle the loop. 

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Nevermind, I stand corrected. I found the post made by Two Timer. SnowBlock threw me off and I missed the sarcasm in his comment concerning the topic mentioned in another thread.  Next time I am on the (6) I will check it out then, the City Hall Loop. (Rushing through the thread and speedreading since my break is almost over. thanks for the heads up.

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Only the "Jubilee" line on London Underground has platform doors. They are always talking about introducing them to other stations. Money is always the object. I have been on the MRT in Hong Kong and the MTR in Singapore, and they have platform doors at all their stations, but they are much newer systems than London or New York.

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Only the "Jubilee" line on London Underground has platform doors. They are always talking about introducing them to other stations. Money is always the object. I have been on the MTR in Hong Kong and the MRT in Singapore, and they have platform doors at all their stations, but they are much newer systems than London or New York.

NOT all

the 100-year-old East Rail Line(Kowloon Canton Railway HK section) doesn't have a single set of PSD right now

they are planning to do some improvement such as better signalling system, platforms structures...etc, so PSDs could finally be installed on this line.

 

Oh...wait a minute...platforms structures......

I think we would face some engineering challenges when we are planning to install platform gate in some elevated stations....since their structures aren't designed to hold the weight of the PSDs.... <_<

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I've ridden on several systems with PSDs for large amounts of time, most notably the Beijing Subway (For 3 weeks), Copenhagen Metro (For 2 weeks), and the Bangkok Metro (4 Weeks).

 

What I've noticed is that PSDs require very high stopping accuracy, which can be an issue with manually-operated trains.

 

About 1 out of every 4 stops trains made on the Beijing Subway was not accurate enough to line up with the PSDs so the crew could open the doors.

 

Most often, it was an underrun, but once and a while, there would be an overrun. Time was often wasted because crews had to adjust the position of the train to meet up with the PSDs following an inaccurate stop. 

 

The margin for error is VERY small with PSDs; this is already an issue with NTTs on other systems, just imagine the issues with SMEEs, where braking characteristics are much more variable from car to car.

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On the Airtrain, the platform doors are a bit wider than the train doors, which allows some flexibility in stopping accuracy. Still don't know how much that could help on this system, however.



But with the Union trying to tell us to slow down to 10mph in every station, maybe it won't make a difference. (I didn't have much experience with 14th St. but I know at the old South Ferry, it wasn't that much of a problem, because you were going so slow coming in anyway).

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I'm going to make this a large post debunking myths about PED's.

 

Ive heard so many times that they are proposed on the (T) line and at 34th Street-11th Avenue on the (7) extension line, so ummm besides the expense considering the economy nowadays AND crazy people, who will just do scratchitti, probably run into them all the time and evenutually break the glass and it still would pose a hazard because you always see people holding doors on the train, if someone tries to hold the doors and those screen doors shut, youre basically f**ked because, there was an incident in Singapore where a man held the train doors and the screen doors behind him shut and he got pulled under and got killed, bet that will happen considering the amount of crazy asses in the subway, so why waste the money?
I doubt that they would use glass that weak, also, the doors would obviously be interlocked with the train doors, so in case either one of them doesn't manage to close then the train simply won't move.

 

^ Hmm, love the set up there.

 

Wait.... Here's hoping nobody is stupid enough to claim over the barrier like a fence.... -_-

 

....just sayin'

Those barriers are the size of 1.5 average persons. And if a little bit more is spent, the barrier can also be high enough so people would have to be *really* skinny to be able to get through them.

 

Remember that if the doors are installed the stations can finally be air conditioned because they are enclosed.
Yup, because the tunnels wouldn't have to be airconned and trains are airconned already. The only moment when this would cause trouble is during the unlikely train evacuation, when it would be a little hot. (but not that hot)

 

I don't see how outdated infrastucture has to do with screen doors; they could just do fastrack or weekend work to update the stuff lol.
Indeed. In Paris, they installed the doors by closing the line for a weekend, so why couldn't they do this during FASTTRACK's.

 

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="lilbluefoxie" data-cid="631377" data-time="1357958367"><p>

theres still issues on the A-division, the doors on the R142/As are wider than the R62/A doors, plus they aren't automated. People should just learn not to lean over the edge, stay away from hobos and hang near the wall or the middle of the platform (on island platform stations)</p></blockquote>

 

Its only a foot wider, not that much of a big difference. Plus the train doesn't have to be automated, it could just use sensors. Look at the gap fillers at Union Sq

Or just some small train-borne equipment (requiring some rewiring).

 

I've ridden on several systems with PSDs for large amounts of time, most notably the Beijing Subway (For 3 weeks), Copenhagen Metro (For 2 weeks), and the Bangkok Metro (4 Weeks).

 

What I've noticed is that PSDs require very high stopping accuracy, which can be an issue with manually-operated trains.

 

About 1 out of every 4 stops trains made on the Beijing Subway was not accurate enough to line up with the PSDs so the crew could open the doors.

 

Most often, it was an underrun, but once and a while, there would be an overrun. Time was often wasted because crews had to adjust the position of the train to meet up with the PSDs following an inaccurate stop. 

 

The margin for error is VERY small with PSDs; this is already an issue with NTTs on other systems, just imagine the issues with SMEEs, where braking characteristics are much more variable from car to car.

Make the doors slightly wider, train motormen to stop properly.

 

On the Airtrain, the platform doors are a bit wider than the train doors, which allows some flexibility in stopping accuracy. Still don't know how much that could help on this system, however.

 

 

But with the Union trying to tell us to slow down to 10mph in every station, maybe it won't make a difference. (I didn't have much experience with 14th St. but I know at the old South Ferry, it wasn't that much of a problem, because you were going so slow coming in anyway).

Of course, the doors would make the union finally shut up about running at 10mph into a station and increase the speed of service, therefore making more trains per hour possible.
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On the Airtrain, the platform doors are a bit wider than the train doors, which allows some flexibility in stopping accuracy. Still don't know how much that could help on this system, however.

But with the Union trying to tell us to slow down to 10mph in every station, maybe it won't make a difference. (I didn't have much experience with 14th St. but I know at the old South Ferry, it wasn't that much of a problem, because you were going so slow coming in anyway).

wider doors would actually help alot and allow for a higher margin for error thus allowing manuel operated trains to use them. Due to this trains don't need to be so slow you are correct also this improves on-time performance thus reducing wait times especially for lines like the (R) which means better connections and more ridership.
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 Those barriers are the size of 1.5 average persons. And if a little bit more is spent, the barrier can also be high enough so people would have to be *really* skinny to

be able to get through them.

Oh. Makes sense, in a way. Atleast here in NYC it would be different than that of the photo.

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I dunno if his post was a reason to be pro platform doors, and they can all bring up the positives about it, but it all comes down to the costs. Unless the fed is footing the bill 100%, then these should not be installed here on the MTA's dime.
I am in favor of installing the doors as a trial on at least one station, whether it's somewhere on the Canarsie Line (like what the MTA is currently considering, preferably when it's down for maintenance somewhere) or on the (7) extension. Why the (7) extension, you may ask; well, it's not open yet, so if there are teething problems with the doors it can easily be delayed.
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