Art Vandelay Posted January 18, 2013 Share #126 Posted January 18, 2013 Doors do not have to be in exactly the same place for PSDs to work. Also, as Minato Ku points out- In each system in place so far, and almost certainly in whatever NYCT would put in place, there is no such room for anyone to get stuck between doors and car, and so such would be a nonissue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted January 18, 2013 Share #127 Posted January 18, 2013 Because taking photos in the subway is what life is all about. Grown the F up and get another hobby. I have encountered bus drivers with sour attitudes like this before. One event went so far as to chase me around a bus terminal and tried to kick me off buses I tried to board... all for photographing RTS buses. If any driver told me to get another hobby and to "grow the F up", a complaint would be filed with the agency (which there was as-is with the situation described above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted January 18, 2013 Share #128 Posted January 18, 2013 Screen doors are only possible on the IRT... its impossible on the B Div, even if all the cars were one length, we'd still be having problems since the doors are positioned differently. The only thing I can see happening to solve this which EVERYONE would hate and which would cause service delays would have a slow timer entering each station... (Which im completly against that). That would sure bring down the death toll, but its still not completly effective since someone still could be pushed infront of an oncoming train. I really don't see any solution to this, there are also things that can get someone killed with platform screen doors, such as on an overcrowded train one tries to fit on the train, the doors close on the train and the platform and the person gets stuck inbetween them. Then we'd have people complain about the screen doors... First of all....do R143/R160 have doors there are positioned differently? R68/R68A may serve until 2025, so we could re-think about PSD after 2025 Also....unless the platform has really big gap(so you can't install PSD at those stations, but for other stations you could), the PSD could be installed pretty close to the train, than it has no way to fit in a person between the train and the screen door. Finally...i have to say...screen door IS a solution of that. But i argee that we may have lots of challenges about bringing PSD to NYC. a quick sketch of what a station may look like with platform screens, including scratchiti and dirt that is bound to show up on these things. The space that between train and screen doors can't be that big.....otherwise it really causes the problem that some people stuck between the train and PSD...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted January 18, 2013 Share #129 Posted January 18, 2013 The MRT in Singapore has them on elevated stations. Found something on wiki Both my reader and me can't read Japanese, but it is clear too show it needs extra support to the platform edge before we install PSD on a existing platform (that without the design of adding PSD) Some elevated stations in NYC, there are just empty spaces underlaid the platforms....how could those platform hold the weight of the PSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minato ku Posted January 19, 2013 Share #130 Posted January 19, 2013 Paris definitely has scratchiti on platform doors. It is not like New York City was the only place where public objects are easily vandalized. Simply build robust doors with solid glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted January 19, 2013 Share #131 Posted January 19, 2013 Paris definitely has scratchiti on platform doors.It is not like New York City was the only place where public objects are easily vandalized. Simply build robust doors with solid glass. whoah! grafitti in french! i wonder what kind of people write these and what the messages mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted January 19, 2013 Share #132 Posted January 19, 2013 Paris definitely has scratchiti on platform doors.It is not like New York City was the only place where public objects are easily vandalized. Simply build robust doors with solid glass. Which adds to the cost considerably, they probably will use Lexan instead of glass. Lexan is a polycarbonate plastic based translucent panel similar to glass but its bulletproof and stronger. However its still prone to scratchiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minato ku Posted January 19, 2013 Share #133 Posted January 19, 2013 I think that it is what we have in Paris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 19, 2013 Share #134 Posted January 19, 2013 The platform screen doors could have Plexiglas instead. Plexiglas can't be scratched. This same material was used for the windows on the R160's so the vandalism point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted January 19, 2013 Share #135 Posted January 19, 2013 The platform screen doors could have Plexiglas instead. Plexiglas can't be scratched. This same material was used for the windows on the R160's so the vandalism point is moot. they use that stuff on the LIRR platform shelters and ive seen it vandalized. Go to Bethpage or Hicksville, the windows in the shelters are all scratched out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 19, 2013 Share #136 Posted January 19, 2013 they use that stuff on the LIRR platform shelters and ive seen it vandalized. Go to Bethpage or Hicksville, the windows in the shelters are all scratched out. I am starting to think that the bought the cheap stuff and opt not to go for better quality glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted January 19, 2013 Share #137 Posted January 19, 2013 Well, 'there's a surprise'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nflamez Posted January 19, 2013 Share #138 Posted January 19, 2013 Found something on wikiBoth my reader and me can't read Japanese, but it is clear too show it needs extra support to the platform edge before we install PSD on a existing platform (that without the design of adding PSD) Some elevated stations in NYC, there are just empty spaces underlaid the platforms....how could those platform hold the weight of the PSD Also, one PED doesn't mean that the entire system has to be fitted with them. Elevated stations can wait a bit... (busier stations like QBP could for instance use slightly reinforced structures so they can hold their weight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted January 19, 2013 Share #139 Posted January 19, 2013 Because taking photos in the subway is what life is all about. Grown the F up and get another hobby.That makes zero sense. Zero. Especially on a forum dedicated to transit and photography. Hit the nail on the head. Everybody here is just annoyed they'll have less clear shots...bummer, yeah. Not as much of a bummer as some crazy guy shoving you in front of your beloved R32-R42-Rwhathaveyou that you were about to get a photo of.It's not as much about the photography than it is about the extra expense the extra point of mechanical failure the obvious scratchitti problem what happens in an emergency what happens when power is lost the years of extra construction did I mention spending money that's barely even there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted January 19, 2013 Share #140 Posted January 19, 2013 That makes zero sense. Zero. Especially on a forum dedicated to transit and photography.It's not as much about the photography than it is about There are many other aspects to this hobby other than photography especially when most people take the same shots over and over again. My point was that several people were bitching about the effect the doors would have on photography and that if that's all they care about, maybe their priorities are out of whack. Hell, I enjoy taking photos when I have the free time and yes it would suck if they installed there doors. But if the TA did,I'd get over it because not being able to take photos is not a big deal and life moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexis4Jersey Posted January 19, 2013 Share #141 Posted January 19, 2013 a quick sketch of what a station may look like with platform screens, including scratchiti and dirt that is bound to show up on these things. There are other cities that have had them and very little damage has occurred to them , they have them in some of worst areas in Paris and London...very little damage... These doors and walls are designed to take beatings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted January 19, 2013 Share #142 Posted January 19, 2013 @ lilbluefoxie: Good rendition of how platform doors could look like in the subway. Brilliant! I like, I like! General thoughts on the the scratchiti issue concerning platform doors: Wasn't SEPTA incorporating NASA space age technology through two firms into new scratch resistant glass some time ago? The glass developed was originally intended to produce plastic lenses for NASA that can last up to 10 times longer than they used to before. I would imagine it is incorporated into their telescopes satellites and space probes currently in orbit. It's the scratch-resistant glass coating (which is really hard and durable) to protect equipment from getting beaten up by space debris. This technology is now used in most eyewear and also industrial face shields. Then we have the throw away glass shields which i guess is currently used on our subway trains but that was not too effective. Maybe the MTA is considering this new technology now in their consideration of incorporating platform doors in the future. I guess starting with the extension according to my understanding. Not sure about Second Avenue, but I'm assuming they will consider it if that pending pilot program on the extension station(s) are successful. I agree with the fact that platform doors can be a big help towards climate control if they also install ventilation systems such as in Grand Central Station on the , , and . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted January 19, 2013 Share #143 Posted January 19, 2013 There are other cities that have had them and very little damage has occurred to them , they have them in some of worst areas in Paris and London...very little damage... These doors and walls are designed to take beatings... Lets be real here, they are going to go with the cheapest contractor which is going to use the cheapest equipment. Plus this isn't Paris or London, this is New York. I doubt the worst stations in those cities look as decrepit as the worst ones here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted January 19, 2013 Share #144 Posted January 19, 2013 Lets be real here, they are going to go with the cheapest contractor which is going to use the cheapest equipment. Plus this isn't Paris or London, this is New York. I doubt the worst stations in those cities look as decrepit as the worst ones here. Indirect response: In talking about the MTA and going with the cheapest contractor they can find during open bids for construction projects -case and point: The cheap and sh!tty construction thanks to Schiavone with the South Ferry Station. Which continues to haunt us NY commuters to this day. Leaking tunnels and water damage in the station itself. A NEW STATION WTH WHAT GIVES?! The contractor must be secretly thanking themselves for Hurricane Sandy totally ravaging the station so they can't be blamed for the shoddy construction of the station anymore in the first place. Lucky them. *roll eyes* I think hope the MTA probably (wishing upon a star I know) did learn their lesson according to Ben Kabek's commentary from Second Ave Sagas and I agree: The MTA is currently building four new subway stations in Manhattan and an overly expensive transit center at Fulton St. Should we expect better construction for our millions and billions or are we doomed to a system forever plagued by the ugliness and decay of water damage? http://secondavenuesagas.com/2012/06/01/at-south-ferry-a-new-station-with-old-problems/ So that being said, as much lilbluefoxie I can definitely understand your concerns, it's possible that the MTA probably will not repeat their mistake again. But we'll see. (I'm certainty not holding my breath that's for sure on new tentative construction projects planned in the capital budget.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted January 19, 2013 Share #145 Posted January 19, 2013 There are many other aspects to this hobby other than photography especially when most people take the same shots over and over again. My point was that several people were bitching about the effect the doors would have on photography and that if that's all they care about, maybe their priorities are out of whack.Hell, I enjoy taking photos when I have the free time and yes it would suck if they installed there doors. But if the TA did,I'd get over it because not being able to take photos is not a big deal and life moves on. But I'm pretty sure the people who were saying it were not trying to make it a main point. And if I'm wrong about my assumption, then I'm wrong. And you didn't just say think about other aspects, you said Grown the F up and get another hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted January 19, 2013 Share #146 Posted January 19, 2013 But I'm pretty sure the people who were saying it were not trying to make it a main point. And if I'm wrong about my assumption, then I'm wrong. And you didn't just say think about other aspects, you said "Grown the F up and get another hobby." my main point was about personal responsibility and not to dumb down the Subway with unnecessary barriers because stupid people kill themselves on trains or people lean over the edge when drunk. That leaves the small incidents when someones attacked, just throw the book at the killer and lock em up for a very long time. The safest place to be in the station is back against the wall (or the center in island platforms) until the train comes in, also if you must stand near the edge, go down to the front end of the station, at least if you are pushed there the train is slowing down anyway to come to a stop and chances are wont hit you. There are bad people out there looking to kill others and if they arent pushing someone onto the tracks theyre stabbing them or shooting em, which also can happen down there, and happens more often than someone falling onto the tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted January 19, 2013 Share #147 Posted January 19, 2013 my main point was about personal responsibility and not to dumb down the Subway with unnecessary barriers because stupid people kill themselves on trains or people lean over the edge when drunk. That leaves the small incidents when someones attacked, just throw the book at the killer and lock em up for a very long time. The safest place to be in the station is back against the wall (or the center in island platforms) until the train comes in, also if you must stand near the edge, go down to the front end of the station, at least if you are pushed there the train is slowing down anyway to come to a stop and chances are wont hit you. There are bad people out there looking to kill others and if they arent pushing someone onto the tracks theyre stabbing them or shooting em, which also can happen down there, and happens more often than someone falling onto the tracks. Exactly what I thought - The photography aspect wasn't trying to be put into the spotlight. And shit, in the 108 years the subway was open, there were no barriers. Why try it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted January 19, 2013 Share #148 Posted January 19, 2013 Are there many overpasses over the outdoors subway lines? I guess it could work as an alternative in dire circumstances. Or maybe shooting from a building overlooking an EL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted January 19, 2013 Share #149 Posted January 19, 2013 Are there many overpasses over the outdoors subway lines? I guess it could work as an alternative in dire circumstances. Or maybe shooting from a building overlooking an EL. It hasn't been necessary for over 110 years to put doors/screens on el's, people just need to get some common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nflamez Posted January 19, 2013 Share #150 Posted January 19, 2013 And shit, in the 108 years the subway was open, there were no barriers. Why try it now?Because the technology is available nowadays, and if lives can be saved with new technology, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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