HOP ON! MTA restores old bus routes lost in cuts and extends several more

[Amtrak7]

Remember the average fare back then was $1.14. Some weekday direct numbers for scale:

 

$4.25 Q79

$6.58 S55/56

$1.32 M57

$2.42 S79

$1.94 Q32

 

Average express fare was $4.22 NYCT/$4.18 MTAB (weekday):

 

$42.25 x25

$11.69 x64

$8.02 x1-x9

$10.84 x22

$6.28 BxM7

$13.28 BM4

$12.18 BxM2

[CDTA]

Remember the average fare back then was $1.14. Some weekday direct numbers for scale:

 

$4.25 Q79

$6.58 S55/56

$1.32 M57

$2.42 S79

$1.94 Q32

 

Average express fare was $4.22 NYCT/$4.18 MTAB (weekday):

 

$42.25 x25

$11.69 x64

$8.02 x1-x9

$10.84 x22

$6.28 BxM7

$13.28 BM4

$12.18 BxM2

 

 

You still only need two fares :/

[Amtrak7]

You still only need two fares :/

 

 

These are costs per passenger!

[checkmatechamp13]

To think they cut those routes while leaving some of the express lines and their insane costs boggles the mind.

 

 

You have to consider the farebox recovery ratio as well. The B39 actually performed worse than the express system overall. Its weekday farebox recovery ratio was about 48.7%, compared to 48.8% for the NYCT express routes overall. On weekends, it's 33.9%, compared to 62.4% for the NYCT express routes, so in this case, the express routes perform much better than the local routes.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdGplTGJUVm9oZ25DT3JLRWRjbzZkT2c#gid=1 (NYCT routes)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdHd4QkhLRF92cURWNWdSbzNfSjJwWWc&hl=en#gid=1 (MTA Bus routes)

 

Yes, some express routes should've been cut, like the BM4, but let's not pretend all express routes are huge money-wasters.

 

The MTA considers those figures a loss? Talk about tightwads.

 

Like I said, it comes down to the farebox recovery ratio. The B39 had a below-average FRR, and on top of that, duplicated the subway.

 

I'm sure there's more, like mileage, and driver pay/benefits, but yeah, those seem pretty damn cheap.

 

 

Yes, those would be the total costs (which are also included in those charts). You have the fixed overhead costs (dispatching, driver training, etc) that don't change depending on how much service is run, and then you have the direct operating costs, which account for the additional milage, driver pay, etc.

[qjtransitmaster]

Direct costs only

 

B39 weekday $2.34

B51 $3.49

B39 weekend $3.81

 

cheaper than I thought I would have merged it with B24 and called it a day then split off greenpoint route. But yeah.

To think they cut those routes while leaving some of the express lines and their insane costs boggles the mind.

 

remember only few express routes cost so much like the 2 least used MTA bus co express lines and the lowest BXM full-time route.

[Hound]

Can't make it a Crosstown either, Delancey ends at Bowery and there's no turnaround. Kenmare(what Delancey turns into) is too narrow.

 

 

It should be extended west via the old M12 route(Spring & Prince Sts) to at least 6 Ave.

[Q101 E Midtown]

It should be extended west via the old M12 route(Spring & Prince Sts) to at least 6 Ave.

 

 

Another option as well could be eastern manhattan. Maybe around Grand Central via the 1/2 Avenue.

[Far Rock Depot]

Another option as well could be eastern manhattan. Maybe around Grand Central via the 1/2 Avenue.

 

that idea was brought up before as a rerouted M15 lcl short turn. Lets not go back there

Nor lets go back to the old M8 route (grand/broome sts) that route died for a reason.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Remember the average fare back then was $1.14. Some weekday direct numbers for scale:

 

$4.25 Q79

$6.58 S55/56

$1.32 M57

$2.42 S79

$1.94 Q32

 

Average express fare was $4.22 NYCT/$4.18 MTAB (weekday):

 

$42.25 x25

$11.69 x64

$8.02 x1-x9

$10.84 x22

$6.28 BxM7

$13.28 BM4

$12.18 BxM2

 

Wait a minute... When are those figures from? Ridership on the BxM2 has been growing steadily after the recession so these numbers may be deceiving. In any event, those BxM2 costs don't tell the whole story... The line gets good ridership considering the fact that there is the BxM1 and BxM18 and actually is better than some lines that are the only lines that serve their communities. The problem is they have to run service every 30 minutes most of the day or the buses would be SRO. Before the recession, the line was doing great but took a hit like most express bus lines have, but ridership is growing again and as the economy improves I'm certain the numbers will continue to grow. The also re-routed the line last recently Northbound (to Riverdale) due to the huge discrepancy between the stops on the Upper East Side and Upper West Side. The BxM2 and Riverdale... On the re-bound...

[qjtransitmaster]

Another option as well could be eastern manhattan. Maybe around Grand Central via the 1/2 Avenue.

 

and people say I don't know what I am talking about seriously it's getting annoying at this point.

[checkmatechamp13]

Wait a minute... When are those figures from? Ridership on the BxM2 has been growing steadily after the recession so these numbers may be deceiving. In any event, those BxM2 costs don't tell the whole story... The line gets good ridership considering the fact that there is the BxM1 and BxM18 and actually is better than some lines that are the only lines that serve their communities. The problem is they have to run service every 30 minutes most of the day or the buses would be SRO. Before the recession, the line was doing great but took a hit like most express bus lines have, but ridership is growing again and as the economy improves I'm certain the numbers will continue to grow. The also re-routed the line last recently Northbound (to Riverdale) due to the huge discrepancy between the stops on the Upper East Side and Upper West Side. The BxM2 and Riverdale... On the re-bound...

 

 

2009. And the BxM2 grew by a whopping 0.9% from 2010 to 2011. Ooooooh, aaaaaaah.

 

And actually, compared to 2009, weekday BxM2 ridership was actually 8% lower in 2011. You're not going to sit there and convince everybody that the BxM2 has seen this massive growth in ridership from 2011 to 2012, even with the reroute.

[qjtransitmaster]

2009. And the BxM2 grew by a whopping 0.9% from 2010 to 2011. Ooooooh, aaaaaaah.

 

And actually, compared to 2009, weekday BxM2 ridership was actually 8% lower in 2011. You're not going to sit there and convince everybody that the BxM2 has seen this massive growth in ridership from 2011 to 2012, even with the reroute.

 

It's impossible to completely slash some service on the 2 as in the bronx it's like a variant of the BXM1 and it's weekend ridership is EXTREMELY HIGH!!!! 900 weekend riders damn that is higher than some lines on weekdays. If you want a line to cut BXM4 nuff said OR make it 100% superexpress and tell the concourse to take a hike or learn the subway. It runs literally all day and into the night has nearly half the riders of the BM4 yet it has nearly twice the service of BM4!!! Obviously these cats aren't thinking about money period. Cause if they were the 2 lowest MTA bus co lines would have been long gone by now. Even before it had dismal ridership.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's impossible to completely slash some service on the 2 as in the bronx it's like a variant of the BXM1 and it's weekend ridership is EXTREMELY HIGH!!!! 900 weekend riders damn that is higher than some lines on weekdays. If you want a line to cut BXM4 nuff said OR make it 100% superexpress and tell the concourse to take a hike or learn the subway. It runs literally all day and into the night has nearly half the riders of the BM4 yet it has nearly twice the service of BM4!!! Obviously these cats aren't thinking about money period. Cause if they were the 2 lowest MTA bus co lines would have been long gone by now. Even before it had dismal ridership.

 

The route holds its own compared to other bus express bus lines and #2 it's one of the few express bus routes that didn't lose ridership overall. Growth doesn't boom overnight and I don't think the expects growth to boom on any line overnight so small growth is just fine especially in this economy. Also it's normal for ridership on any line to fluctuate so like I said I'm confident that as time goes on, ridership will improve and I think the feels the same way.

 

As they've noted, growth on buses overall has steadily been decreasing over the years, be it local or express, so combine that with the economy and any growth isn't going to be booming in most cases.

[B35 via Church]

If you want a line to cut BXM4 nuff said OR make it 100% superexpress and tell the concourse to take a hike or learn the subway.

I see..

 

So that's what your commentary in YankspwnMets' thread is about....

[checkmatechamp13]

The route holds its own compared to other bus express bus lines and #2 it's one of the few express bus routes that didn't lose ridership overall. Growth doesn't boom overnight and I don't think the expects growth to boom on any line overnight so small growth is just fine especially in this economy. Also it's normal for ridership on any line to fluctuate so like I said I'm confident that as time goes on, ridership will improve and I think the feels the same way.

 

As they've noted, growth on buses overall has steadily been decreasing over the years, be it local or express, so combine that with the economy and any growth isn't going to be booming in most cases.

 

 

I love how you're directing this at him, when it's really meant for me. He specifically said that the ridership was high compared to other express buses. He mentioned absolutely nothing about growth. Stop with this crap of talking through other people, and if you have something to say to me, direct it to me. You did the same thing in that "Service Restorations" thread. You think I didn't notice you talking to Shortline about stuff meant for me?

 

In any case, I wasn't talking about whether ridership was high or not. I was saying that there wouldn't have been a drastic change compared to 2009. The cost per passenger was roughly $12 back then, and it's roughly $12 now. That's it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I love how you're directing this at him, when it's really meant for me. He specifically said that the ridership was high compared to other express buses. He mentioned absolutely nothing about growth. Stop with this crap of talking through other people, and if you have something to say to me, direct it to me. You did the same thing in that "Service Restorations" thread. You think I didn't notice you talking to Shortline about stuff meant for me?

 

In any case, I wasn't talking about whether ridership was high or not. I was saying that there wouldn't have been a drastic change compared to 2009. The cost per passenger was roughly $12 back then, and it's roughly $12 now. That's it.

 

Yeah and guess what? Me and qj have had several conversations in private about the growth of the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 that you weren't privy to, so I was continuing a conversation that we had previously had, but yet again you go interjecting yourself into conversations that you don't know about. Same thing with me and Shortline... Me and Shortline talk in private... Sick of you trying to interject yourself into every damn conversation I have with someone else when you don't even know the whole story.

 

As for the stats, I asked Amtrak, not you, but somehow I guess that was directed at you too... Smh

[NYCtrainfan01]

I wonder which depot will operate the new Bx46 bus route which is supposed to start in April.

 

 

I'm willing to bet that Westfarms will handle the new route...

 

It's impossible to completely slash some service on the 2 as in the bronx it's like a variant of the BXM1 and it's weekend ridership is EXTREMELY HIGH!!!! 900 weekend riders damn that is higher than some lines on weekdays. If you want a line to cut BXM4 nuff said OR make it 100% superexpress and tell the concourse to take a hike or learn the subway. It runs literally all day and into the night has nearly half the riders of the BM4 yet it has nearly twice the service of BM4!!! Obviously these cats aren't thinking about money period. Cause if they were the 2 lowest MTA bus co lines would have been long gone by now. Even before it had dismal ridership.

 

 

*Sighs*

 

Stations along the Concourse are not ADA accessible... Try telling folks who are disabled to take the subway... They can't... The BxM4 is a good alternative...

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah and guess what? Me and qj have had several conversations in private about the growth of the BxM1 and BxM2 that you weren't privy to, so I was continuing a conversation that we had previously had, but yet again you go interjecting yourself into conversations that you don't know about. Same thing with me and Shortline... Me and Shortline talk in private... Sick of you trying to interject yourself into every damn conversation I have with someone else when you don't even know the whole story. If someone is ignoring take the damn hint that they don't want to talk to you.

 

 

Yeah, OK.

 

You can keep on lying to everybody if you want, but that was not directed at QJT. He's sitting there praising the high ridership of the line, so there wouldn't be any need to talk about growth, because the line is doing just fine as is.

 

As for Shortline, you don't think I noticed that. "I see plenty of CSI students piling on to the S53 on Saturdays" (emphasis mine). Aside from the fact that that there aren't "plenty" of CSI students making the transfer (and I would know because I am a CSI student), you know damn well you were doing that for the sole purpose of contradicting me. Like I said, keep on lying, because that's all you're good at.

 

Oh, and I notice you ignore me when it's convenient for you (and BTW, if you were truly ignoring me, you wouldn't have responded to that post). First you (claim to) ignore me, then you're perfectly content with initiating conversation with me (like in the SI proposals thread, and you had no problem responding to me in the Brooklyn proposals thread), and now you (claim) you're ignoring me again. Make up your damn mind already.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

 

Yeah, OK.

 

You can keep on lying to everybody if you want, but that was not directed at QJT. He's sitting there praising the high ridership of the line, so there wouldn't be any need to talk about growth, because the line is doing just fine as is.

 

As for Shortline, you don't think I noticed that. "I see plenty of CSI students piling on to the S53 on Saturdays" (emphasis mine). Aside from the fact that that there aren't "plenty" of CSI students making the transfer (and I would know because I am a CSI student), you know damn well you were doing that for the sole purpose of contradicting me. Like I said, keep on lying, because that's all you're good at.

 

Oh, and I notice you ignore me when it's convenient for you (and BTW, if you were truly ignoring me, you wouldn't have responded to that post). First you (claim to) ignore me, then you're perfectly content with initiating conversation with me (like in the SI proposals thread, and you had no problem responding to me in the Brooklyn proposals thread), and now you (claim) you're ignoring me again. Make up your damn mind already.

 

Well since it isn't clear I think my conversation with Amtrak in this very thread which you decided to interject yourself into was very clear. I asked him about a stat he posted and you go jumping into the conversation. It doesn't matter what I do or who I talk to, somehow it has to be directed at you. Very sad...

[User]

$4.25 was the average Q79 fare? Holy crap, thats terrible! lol

[4P3607]

Finally, that sign infront of the bus terminal near Marcy Avenue won't be pointing toward an eliminated route anymore...

[checkmatechamp13]

Well since it isn't clear I think my conversation with Amtrak in this very thread which you decided to interject yourself into was very clear. I asked him about a stat he posted and you go jumping into the conversation. It doesn't matter what I do or who I talk to, somehow it has to be directed at you. Very sad...

 

 

Well, first of all, where do you think he got those stats from? Unless he managed to save the file before the MTA deleted it, the only way he could've gotten them was through the links I posted. (Because I've posted them many times in the past, after the MTA deleted the original file).

 

In any case, this is an open forum. These posts are being read by everybody. If I hadn't said what I said, some people would've been under the impression that the BxM2 is seeing this massive increase in ridership. I actually wasn't expecting you to respond, TBH, in any manner (because you can lie all you want, but that post was meant for me).

 

Well, there are a lot of things that are "very sad" about you, but I won't bother to list them. In any case, I highly doubt you're having these long, deep discussions with Shortline & QJT. QJT has already known that the BxM1/2 see high ridership, and the only one he's mentioned being interested in is the BM3. I doubt Shortline would've sent you a PM asking to discuss the S93, because we've (meaning all members) already had many discussions on it in the past. Why? Because he's PMed me about some of my ideas in the past, and asked me to discuss it on the open forum. (For instance, some of my LI Bus ideas when they were proposing cutting routes like the N55, N79, etc, as well as when the MTA first made the cuts in the first place).

 

BTW, I notice you haven't responded to the part where I call you out on you picking and choosing when to ignore me. Hoping that if you ignore it, I'll forget about it?

 

$4.25 was the average Q79 fare? Holy crap, thats terrible! lol

 

 

That's not the average fare. That's how much it cost the MTA to operate the route per passenger.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm willing to bet that Westfarms will handle the new route...

 

 

 

*Sighs*

 

Stations along the Concourse are not ADA accessible... Try telling folks who are disabled to take the subway... They can't... The BxM4 is a good alternative...

 

Funny elderly defense I used BXM4 and guess what I did not see any "ELDERLY/DISABLED" riders however I would assume they use it at some times. BUT the numbers don't lie it's weak. However to hide a weak line behind elderly is really a sign of weakness again an empty line is an empty line. But then again you probably used the 4 duriing heavy hours tell me when does the BXM4 get heavy with disabled riders you peaked my interest.

Yeah, OK.

 

You can keep on lying to everybody if you want, but that was not directed at QJT. He's sitting there praising the high ridership of the line, so there wouldn't be any need to talk about growth, because the line is doing just fine as is.

 

As for Shortline, you don't think I noticed that. "I see plenty of CSI students piling on to the S53 on Saturdays" (emphasis mine). Aside from the fact that that there aren't "plenty" of CSI students making the transfer (and I would know because I am a CSI student), you know damn well you were doing that for the sole purpose of contradicting me. Like I said, keep on lying, because that's all you're good at.

 

Oh, and I notice you ignore me when it's convenient for you (and BTW, if you were truly ignoring me, you wouldn't have responded to that post). First you (claim to) ignore me, then you're perfectly content with initiating conversation with me (like in the SI proposals thread, and you had no problem responding to me in the Brooklyn proposals thread), and now you (claim) you're ignoring me again. Make up your damn mind already.

 

S93??? WTF It needs saturday service? How many people go to CSI during the weekends and off-peak hours?

I see..

 

So that's what your commentary in YankspwnMets' thread is about....

 

sorry I really hate redundant lines.

[AndrewJC]

ADA accessibility for one. Essex doesnt have it.

 

 

So what? Most stations aren't ADA accessible and plenty of them go without bus service to other stations that are.

 

If the goal of the B39 were simply ADA accessibility at Essex, wouldn't a shuttle bus from Broadway-Lafayette solve the "problem" on weekdays much more easily?

[qjtransitmaster]

So what? Most stations aren't ADA accessible and plenty of them go without bus service to other stations that are.

 

If the goal of the B39 were simply ADA accessibility at Essex, wouldn't a shuttle bus from Broadway-Lafayette solve the "problem" on weekdays much more easily?

 

B39 IS a shuttle bus technically. The interesting thing about BXM4 is it may have say consistent ridership but then again I could be wrong as I saw many buses at rush hour on it that were completely empty yes going in the peak direction.