HOP ON! MTA restores old bus routes lost in cuts and extends several more

[AndrewJC]

B39 IS a shuttle bus technically.

 

 

And a shuttle bus from Broadway-Lafayette would be a lot quicker and more reliable than a shuttle bus from Marcy, and the single bus on the line would be able to run on a much shorter headway.

[Cait Sith]

So what? Most stations aren't ADA accessible and plenty of them go without bus service to other stations that are.

 

If the goal of the B39 were simply ADA accessibility at Essex, wouldn't a shuttle bus from Broadway-Lafayette solve the "problem" on weekdays much more easily?

 

 

Not with the horrible traffic at Houston, believe me. When they had train shuttles out there, it took A LOT longer just to get from Broadway to Allen than it usually does.

 

I've lived in that area long enough to know how bad the traffic gets in certain times of the day. It's not worth it especially since there is construction work nearby Broadway-Lafayette.

 

Plus, one of the big uses of the B39 was a connection to the M15 to go to the hospitals, now with the M9 going to the same hospitals, it gives passengers more of an option to choose from instead of suffering from M15 locals.

[qjtransitmaster]

And a shuttle bus from Broadway-Lafayette would be a lot quicker and more reliable than a shuttle bus from Marcy, and the single bus on the line would be able to run on a much shorter headway.

 

HUH? marcy is in brooklyn and broadway lafayette is in manhattan and is farther than essex street? I am confused explain.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The interesting thing about BXM4 is it may have say consistent ridership but then again I could be wrong as I saw many buses at rush hour on it that were completely empty yes going in the peak direction.

 

I've seen BxM4s outside of rush hour and they weren't that crowded, but that was also fairly early on the route, so that doesn't indicate anything. The best way to know is to use the route regularly to get a feel for these things...

 

 

Well, first of all, where do you think he got those stats from? Unless he managed to save the file before the MTA deleted it, the only way he could've gotten them was through the links I posted. (Because I've posted them many times in the past, after the MTA deleted the original file).

 

In any case, this is an open forum. These posts are being read by everybody. If I hadn't said what I said, some people would've been under the impression that the BxM2 is seeing this massive increase in ridership. I actually wasn't expecting you to respond, TBH, in any manner (because you can lie all you want, but that post was meant for me).

 

Well, there are a lot of things that are "very sad" about you, but I won't bother to list them. In any case, I highly doubt you're having these long, deep discussions with Shortline & QJT. QJT has already known that the BxM1/2 see high ridership, and the only one he's mentioned being interested in is the BM3. I doubt Shortline would've sent you a PM asking to discuss the S93, because we've (meaning all members) already had many discussions on it in the past. Why? Because he's PMed me about some of my ideas in the past, and asked me to discuss it on the open forum. (For instance, some of my LI Bus ideas when they were proposing cutting routes like the N55, N79, etc, as well as when the MTA first made the cuts in the first place).

 

BTW, I notice you haven't responded to the part where I call you out on you picking and choosing when to ignore me. Hoping that if you ignore it, I'll forget about it?

 

This is the last time I'm replying to you because is becoming an ongoing event with you. I've blocked you from just about everything possible and the only reason I replied to you in this thread was because of receiving constant notifications from you, which is really becoming a royal pain in the @ss. I shouldn't have to disable my damn notifications from all members just to get a piece of mind.

 

Now as I stated twice now, I asked Amtrak where he got the stats from because I wanted him to respond to the stats he posted and before he could say anything you went and jumped in. If I knew where he got them from I wouldn't have asked... You did the same thing when I was having a conversation with Brooklyn Bus the other day. It's like you just have to make yourself relevant one way or another.

 

Yes, it's an open forum but don't sit here with this BS like I'm talking through people to talk to you. If I have something to say to you, I'll address you directly as I am now.

 

Finally, unless you have some special mod powers that I don't know about, you are not privy to any private conversations I have with any members on here, so unless you do, you don't know what me and qj, Shortline, or anyone else here discusses with me in private, not unless it is personally shared with you, but yet again because Shortline does "x" with you, you assume that's the case with everyone else. Me and Shortline have had plenty of conversations via PM that have not been discussed in the open forum because they're private.

[qjtransitmaster]

I've seen BxM4s outside of rush hour and they weren't that crowded, but that was also fairly early on the route, so that doesn't indicate anything. The best way to know is to use the route regularly to get a feel for these things...

 

 

This is the last time I'm replying to you because is becoming an ongoing event with you. I've blocked you from just about everything possible and the only reason I replied to you in this thread was because of receiving constant notifications from you, which is really becoming a royal pain in the @ss. I shouldn't have to disable my damn notifications from all members just to get a piece of mind.

 

Now as I stated twice now, I asked Amtrak where he got the stats from because I wanted him to respond to the stats he posted and before he could say anything you went and jumped in. If I knew where he got them from I wouldn't have asked... You did the same thing when I was having a conversation with Brooklyn Bus the other day. It's like you just have to make yourself relevant one way or another.

 

Yes, it's an open forum but don't sit here with this BS like I'm talking through people to talk to you. If I have something to say to you, I'll address you directly as I am now.

 

Finally, unless you have some special mod powers that I don't know about, you are not privy to any private conversations I have with any members on here, so you do, you don't know what me and qj, Shortline, or anyone else here discusses with me in private, not unless it is personally shared with you, but yet again because Shortline does "x" with you, you assume that's the case with everyone else. Me and Shortline have had plenty of conversations via PM that have not been discussed in the open forum because they're private.

 

Well true but the BXM4 is the only FULL-TIME express bus with weekday ridership below 500 daily riders yet it's span is greater than many lines with double the ridership BM4 comes to mind and even the BM5 which has it's last manhattan bound bus at around 1 PMish has more ridership than the 4 which is all until 10 PM!!!! No other express bus with off-peak service none in the entire NYCT/MTA bus co system with off-peak service carry less than 500 daily riders except this line. With this said that means lines with greater ridership are getting shafted and denied full-time service even some with more than 1000 or even 2000 daily riders are getting only rush hour unidirectional service while this puny line runs all hours until the night bidirectional? That is what actually bothers me about the MTA and express service in general. Meaning even buses that get packed aren't getting what they deserve in service levels. while others that carry air most of the time get to run full-time 7 days a week. Well you don't have to reply to checkmate13 you know. Yeah we do converse in private sometimes I really don't understand how many threads turn into checkmate vs VG8 SMACKDOWNS.

[AndrewJC]

Not with the horrible traffic at Houston, believe me. When they had train shuttles out there, it took A LOT longer just to get from Broadway to Allen than it usually does.

 

I've lived in that area long enough to know how bad the traffic gets in certain times of the day. It's not worth it especially since there is construction work nearby Broadway-Lafayette.

 

 

And there's never any traffic at all on the Williamsburg Bridge. Buses always sail across at full speed. Right?

 

Plus, one of the big uses of the B39 was a connection to the M15 to go to the hospitals, now with the M9 going to the same hospitals, it gives passengers more of an option to choose from instead of suffering from M15 locals.

 

 

Is that your own conjecture or do you actually have some way to back it up?

 

HUH? marcy is in brooklyn and broadway lafayette is in manhattan and is farther than essex street? I am confused explain.

 

 

If the goal of the B39 is to connect riders near Essex Street station to the closest ADA accessible station, that station is Broadway-Lafayette, not Marcy.

[qjtransitmaster]

I am however curious about the new MTA lines like BX46 can't wait to see em.

[Cait Sith]

And there's never any traffic at all on the Williamsburg Bridge. Buses always sail across at full speed. Right?

 

Is that your own conjecture or do you actually have some way to back it up?

 

 

First and foremost, I never stated anything about the Williamsburg Bridge. You might want to cut that shit out. It's obvious that the bridge itself and Delancey gets traffic. In one direction if traffic is clear, the time it takes to get to the plaza and/or Allen Street is 7-10 minutes. Traffic, 15-20 minutes, sometimes more.

 

Second, I've LIVED in the area. I've SPOKEN to passengers that have taken the route and I WAS AT the LES meetings when they wanted the route back ALONG with the M9 re-extension when they wanted the line to go back via Water Street. I've lived in that area for 16 YEARS so I have a pretty good idea as to what I'm talking about as I have seen things and heard things for myself. Why in the blue hell do you think there are a lot of handicapped riders along those three lines(M9, M15 & B39) in particular?

 

It takes nearly 25-30 minutes in traffic to get from Allen Street to the Plaza in Brooklyn, making a shuttle from Broadway Lafayette would possibly add another 15-20 minutes to a trip that should be much less than it should be IN traffic....

 

I'm not some random scrub that's speaking out from their rear end, I know my stuff ESPECIALLY when it entails the Lower East Side in particular.

[qjtransitmaster]

And there's never any traffic at all on the Williamsburg Bridge. Buses always sail across at full speed. Right?

 

 

 

Is that your own conjecture or do you actually have some way to back it up?

 

 

 

If the goal of the B39 is to connect riders near Essex Street station to the closest ADA accessible station, that station is Broadway-Lafayette, not Marcy.

 

OHH!!! But isn't that a slower way to reach brooklyn than just over the bridge to williamsburg? The time to get there may be 5 mins plus 5 mins of wait time are you really sure. You know unlike some others B39 can be merged with other lines to increase it's ridership overall unlike the MTA bus co express line that has full-time service with a daily ridership of less than 500 riders. It is the only express bus in NYC with full-time service that has less than 500 weekday riders. There is no hope for it.

[checkmatechamp13]

S93??? WTF It needs saturday service? How many people go to CSI during the weekends and off-peak hours?

 

 

Middays(on weekdays) you get a decent amount. But weekends, you won't get many. In that other thread, I mentioned how many people take the loop bus around, and I'd say it's usually around say, 25 during midday hours, but on weekends, you're lucky if you can get 10.

 

As I said in the other thread, running the S83 would benefit more people, because you're serving a wider market. You still offer connections to the Victory Blvd routes (because remember that the S93 doesn't even help people going west of CSI, so they need the S62 anyway), but you also connect to the North Shore crosstowns, and I'll tell you right now, that transfer from the S53 to the S48 is very popular.

 

This is the last time I'm replying to you because is becoming an ongoing event with you. I've blocked you from just about everything possible and the only reason I replied to you in this thread was because of receiving constant notifications from you, which is really becoming a royal pain in the @ss. I shouldn't have to disable my damn notifications from all members just to get a piece of mind.

 

Now as I stated twice now, I asked Amtrak where he got the stats from because I wanted him to respond to the stats he posted and before he could say anything you went and jumped in. If I knew where he got them from I wouldn't have asked... You did the same thing when I was having a conversation with Brooklyn Bus the other day. It's like you just have to make yourself relevant one way or another.

 

Yes, it's an open forum but don't sit here with this BS like I'm talking through people to talk to you. If I have something to say to you, I'll address you directly as I am now.

 

Finally, unless you have some special mod powers that I don't know about, you are not privy to any private conversations I have with any members on here, so you do, you don't know what me and qj, Shortline, or anyone else here discusses with me in private, not unless it is personally shared with you, but yet again because Shortline does "x" with you, you assume that's the case with everyone else. Me and Shortline have had plenty of conversations via PM that have not been discussed in the open forum because they're private.

 

 

LOL. I don't even bother with the notification system. I don't need to be constantly notified of who's quoting my posts, and responding to topics (and I'm the one who takes the forum too seriously. )

 

Like I said, this is an open forum. There's no rule saying you even have to read my posts, but I put the stuff out there for everybody to read. If I hadn't mentioned that about the BxM2, there would've been people thinking the BxM2 had seen this massive increase in ridership.

 

And nope, it's you who's trying to BS me. I don't think you've ever referred to an opinion of B35's as "BS", like you did in that thread. That's only something you say regarding my opinions. And then on top of that with the attitude of "Oh, I see plenty of CSI students taking the S53" (which is a lie, because I can verify that as somebody who lives near CSI and takes classes there on top of that).

 

And that's why I said I doubt it. It's possible, but highly improbable. And yeah, I know you and him have had a lot of conversations, but I doubt the S93 was specifically mentioned in any of those PMs.

 

But remember. You said this was the last time you were going to address me, so why don't you keep that promise?

[AndrewJC]

First and foremost, I never stated anything about the Williamsburg Bridge. You might want to cut that shit out. It's obvious that the bridge itself and Delancey gets traffic. In one direction if traffic is clear, the time it takes to get to the plaza and/or Allen Street is 7-10 minutes. Traffic, 15-20 minutes, sometimes more.

 

 

Exactly. So if the purpose of the B39 were as an ADA-accessible shuttle bus between Essex and the nearest ADA-accessible station, it would make more sense to run it to Broadway-Lafayette than to Marcy. The new B39 is a single bus running on a nominal 30 minute headway - obviously unachievable if traffic is heavy in either direction across the bridge.

 

Second, I've LIVED in the area. I've SPOKEN to passengers that have taken the route and I WAS AT the LES meetings when they wanted the route back ALONG with the M9 re-extension when they wanted the line to go back via Water Street. I've lived in that area for 16 YEARS so I have a pretty good idea as to what I'm talking about as I have seen things and heard things for myself. Why in the blue hell do you think there are a lot of handicapped riders along those three lines(M9, M15 & B39) in particular?

 

 

Rule #1 of public meetings: their attendance is never a representative sample of the community. Certainly some people used the B39 to connect to the M15 to reach the hospitals, but I'd be surprised if it were a particularly large number.

 

The M9 never ran on Water Street until after 9/11. It's going back to basically its pre-9/11 routing to Battery Park City this week.

 

It takes nearly 25-30 minutes in traffic to get from Allen Street to the Plaza in Brooklyn, making a shuttle from Broadway Lafayette would possibly add another 15-20 minutes to a trip that should be much less than it should be IN traffic....

 

 

Calm down. Nobody's suggesting extending the B39 to Broadway-Lafayette. I was responding to the assertion that the purpose of the B39 was to serve the disabled community near Essex Street by bringing them to an ADA-accessible station by pointing out that there's a closer ADA-accessible station to Essex Street than Marcy Avenue.

 

OHH!!! But isn't that a slower way to reach brooklyn than just over the bridge to williamsburg? The time to get there may be 5 mins plus 5 mins of wait time are you really sure. You know unlike some others B39 can be merged with other lines to increase it's ridership overall unlike the MTA bus co express line that has full-time service with a daily ridership of less than 500 riders. It is the only express bus in NYC with full-time service that has less than 500 weekday riders. There is no hope for it.

 

 

Who said anything about Brooklyn? Most people who board trains at Essex/Delancey are going uptown, not to Brooklyn.

 

Merging the B39 with any other line would severely hurt reliability on that other line, since the bridge is prone to traffic congestion. Running the B39 as an isolated route keeps the bridge congestion isolated to the B39. It would also seriously increase costs, since running any other line over the bridge would require more than one additional bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well true but the BXM4 is the only FULL-TIME express bus with weekday ridership below 500 daily riders yet it's span is greater than many lines with double the ridership BM4 comes to mind and even the BM5 which has it's last manhattan bound bus at around 1 PMish has more ridership than the 4 which is all until 10 PM!!!! No other express bus with off-peak service none in the entire NYCT/MTA bus co system with off-peak service carry less than 500 daily riders except this line. With this said that means lines with greater ridership are getting shafted and denied full-time service even some with more than 1000 or even 2000 daily riders are getting only rush hour unidirectional service while this puny line runs all hours until the night bidirectional? That is what actually bothers me about the MTA and express service in general. Meaning even buses that get packed aren't getting what they deserve in service levels. while others that carry air most of the time get to run full-time 7 days a week.

 

The BxM4 used to have two variants, both of which were cut, so they are cutting service on the line as needed, but you can't just axe all of the service like that. The idea is to try to keep whatever service can be kept for those that need it because in most cases once it is cut it doesn't come back.

[Cait Sith]

Exactly. So if the purpose of the B39 were as an ADA-accessible shuttle bus between Essex and the nearest ADA-accessible station, it would make more sense to run it to Broadway-Lafayette than to Marcy. The new B39 is a single bus running on a nominal 30 minute headway - obviously unachievable if traffic is heavy in either direction across the bridge.

 

Rule #1 of public meetings: their attendance is never a representative sample of the community. Certainly some people used the B39 to connect to the M15 to reach the hospitals, but I'd be surprised if it were a particularly large number.

 

The M9 never ran on Water Street until after 9/11. It's going back to basically its pre-9/11 routing to Battery Park City this week.

 

 

1. Even back then, it still wouldn't work and it would make the cost of operation even more than the B51 and other low-usage routes. Also with another obvious point, it also connected to neighboring bus lines in Marcy, it was more of a bus connection than it was a Subway connection. It appears that 99.9% of the folks on here forgot about that....

 

2. Obviously, I know that. The majority of folks that were there are folks that actually used it were folks of the riding public that used the line to go to the hospitals nearby and further North.

 

3. Obviously, I know that too. I was talking about the folks that WANTED it to go back via Water Street....

[checkmatechamp13]

The BxM4 used to have two variants, both of which were cut, so they are cutting service on the line as needed, but you can't just axe all of the service like that. The idea is to try to keep whatever service can be kept for those that need it because in most cases once it is cut it doesn't come back.

 

 

Alright, now I'm going to make it clear that this post is for everybody to read, not just you. Do you want me to put that disclaimer after every post I make from now on?

 

The amount of money the MTA spent on the BxM4 remained the same, and the amount of service along the Grand Concourse remained the same. What happened was that the MTA felt there was more ridership in Woodlawn than Bedford Park (Tracy Towers or whatever the terminal was), so they rerouted the Bedford Park buses to Woodlawn. So this resulted in an increase in service for Woodlawn, a decrease in service to Bedford Park, and no change for service along the Concourse.

 

The only real cut were the BxM4 super-expresses, which were only like 2 trips (and I think they only ran in the PM rush).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Alright, now I'm going to make it clear that this post is for everybody to read, not just you. Do you want me to put that disclaimer after every post I make from now on?

 

The amount of money the MTA spent on the BxM4 remained the same, and the amount of service along the Grand Concourse remained the same. What happened was that the MTA felt there was more ridership in Woodlawn than Bedford Park (Tracy Towers or whatever the terminal was), so they rerouted the Bedford Park buses to Woodlawn. So this resulted in an increase in service for Woodlawn, a decrease in service to Bedford Park, and no change for service along the Concourse.

 

The only real cut were the BxM4 super-expresses, which were only like 2 trips (and I think they only ran in the PM rush).

 

Great then do me the favor and put the quote up without blowing up my notification box... Please... Seriously.

[AndrewJC]

1. Even back then, it still wouldn't work and it would make the cost of operation even more than the B51 and other low-usage routes. Also with another obvious point, it also connected to neighboring bus lines in Marcy, it was more of a bus connection than it was a Subway connection. It appears that 99.9% of the folks on here forgot about that....

 

2. Obviously, I know that. The majority of folks that were there are folks that actually used it were folks of the riding public that used the line to go to the hospitals nearby and further North.

 

3. Obviously, I know that too. I was talking about the folks that WANTED it to go back via Water Street....

 

 

I agree with you. I was simply responding to the claim that the purpose of the B39 is to serve the non-ADA-accessible Essex Street station. My response to that claim is that, if that were the purpose, it would run from Essex to Broadway-Lafayette, not from Essex to Marcy.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree with you. I was simply responding to the claim that the purpose of the B39 is to serve the non-ADA-accessible Essex Street station. My response to that claim is that, if that were the purpose, it would run from Essex to Broadway-Lafayette, not from Essex to Marcy.

 

And why is that exactly??

[Fresh Pond]

 

 

Exactly. So if the purpose of the B39 were as an ADA-accessible shuttle bus between Essex and the nearest ADA-accessible station, it would make more sense to run it to Broadway-Lafayette than to Marcy. The new B39 is a single bus running on a nominal 30 minute headway - obviously unachievable if traffic is heavy in either direction across the bridge.

 

 

Traffic was horrible because of those barriers they kept on the entrances of the bridge (which pretty much restricted inbound traffic from the BQE on the outer roadway). Now with the barriers gone and all4 lanes are now easy to use, it seems like traffic evened out amongst all 4 lanes.

 

Don't get me wrong, there's still days where shit goes completely wrong, but it's an improvement than before

[qjtransitmaster]

Traffic was horrible because of those barriers they kept on the entrances of the bridge (which pretty much restricted inbound traffic from the BQE on the outer roadway). Now with the barriers gone and all4 lanes are now easy to use, it seems like traffic evened out amongst all 4 lanes.

 

Don't get me wrong, there's still days where shit goes completely wrong, but it's an improvement than before

 

I think that was what hurt the B39 overall now B39 doesn't have that problem anymore. However I think an HOV lane or bus only lane will help the B39 alot and allow for a merger to prevent traffic problems.

[Gorgor]

I think that was what hurt the B39 overall now B39 doesn't have that problem anymore. However I think an HOV lane or bus only lane will help the B39 alot and allow for a merger to prevent traffic problems.

 

Thus removing many cars from one lane, forcing them into another lane, and increasing traffic roughly 30%, which in turn backs up the roads heading to the bridge which results in more delays for everyone including the bus.

[Cait Sith]

I think that was what hurt the B39 overall now B39 doesn't have that problem anymore. However I think an HOV lane or bus only lane will help the B39 alot and allow for a merger to prevent traffic problems.

 

You must be drunk, no one is going to benefit from an HOV lane. That just causes more problems....

[qjtransitmaster]

Thus removing many cars from one lane, forcing them into another lane, and increasing traffic roughly 30%, which in turn backs up the roads heading to the bridge which results in more delays for everyone including the bus.

seriously most come off of BQE create an express lane that goes from LIE nonstop to the williamsburg. The bus will have a lane to itself and will travel a different route killing your argument dead. More people onto mass transit.

 

 

You must be drunk, no one is going to benefit from an HOV lane. That just causes more problems....

I don't drink it can be rush hour only or come directly from the bus station. Stop with the unneeded insults.

[Cait Sith]

seriously most come off of BQE create an express lane that goes from LIE nonstop to the williamsburg. The bus will have a lane to itself and will travel a different route killing your argument dead. More people onto mass transit.

 

I don't drink it can be rush hour only or come directly from the bus station. Stop with the unneeded insults.

 

That's not really going to work....have you seen how narrow the BQE gets when you exit the bridge????

 

Please stop talking about things you know nothing about. First and foremost, the Manhattan bound lanes are narrow as hell along with the Brooklyn Bound lanes of the bridge. The lanes aren't wide enough to even provide an HOV lane. It will just cause more problems than it would solve things.

[qjtransitmaster]

That's not really going to work....have you seen how narrow the BQE gets when you exit the bridge????

 

Please stop talking about things you know nothing about. First and foremost, the Manhattan bound lanes are narrow as hell along with the Brooklyn Bound lanes of the bridge. The lanes aren't wide enough to even provide an HOV lane. It will just cause more problems than it would solve things.

you mean lanes on the bridge itself are too narrow?? Or BQE to williamsburg bridge? Cause I said express lanes meaning cars can use em as well to skip local exits on the BQE and traffic on the BQE can be separated. However the HOV is for the bridge itself from the terminal directly mostly rush hr answer my question as you stated interesting facts.

[B35 via Church]

Aside from what Caitsith already laid out....

 

The logic behind implementing a bus lane for a solitary bus route that runs every half hour..... smh....

Seriously now.....