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Engr08

Three door artics

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I can understand why the MTA went with a three door artic because of the select bus service. We've seen a bunch of these new buses on local route, my question is the MTA losing money due to fare beaters climbing on through the second and rear door? Are these fare beaters getting caught by the operator or is going unnoticed?

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Farebeaters cost the (MTA) $50 million annually: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35578-bus-farebeaters-cost-mta-50-million-annually/page__st__40

 

And the problem is not only on three door artics. It's on all buses, especially busy lines, where people go through the back door and the driver doesn't notice because he is busy doing something up front.

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35155-staten-island-farebeaters-hot-topic-at-council-hearing-today/

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/32831-500-for-farebeaters/

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Maybe there should be some kind of alert system to detect any farebeaters and notify the driver.

 

Wouldn't matter much as all the operator can do is state the fare.

 

The OP specifically mentions SBS routes. Perhaps he can request the MTA to send more inspectors out at select stops.

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Maybe there should be some kind of alert system to detect any farebeaters and notify the driver.

 

Easy for you to say. Can YOU propose anything feasible that would work?

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The best thing that can be done is station cops at the busiest intersections/stops so they can help enforce payment. Unfortunately there's no way to afford stationing a cop on every single bus.

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My plan to have some plain clothes police on the bus to give out a summons when a person decides not to pay. Just like the sbs, people know they are taking a chance when they get on without a receipt. Trust me the word would get out and the fare beaters would hate to pay that fine.

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Easy for you to say. Can YOU propose anything feasible that would work?

 

 

A relatively low cost analytic camera would do nicely detecting folks entering the wrong way, the problem is, then what?? stop the bus ? anarchy would reign. Without a clear cut plan, they write off the loss sick as it sounds

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A relatively low cost analytic camera would do nicely detecting folks entering the wrong way, the problem is, then what?? stop the bus ? anarchy would reign. Without a clear cut plan, they write off the loss sick as it sounds

 

I think there was a camera by the back door on an RTS I had been on last year on the Q30. I don't know what it was for, but it is possible to do that. Just have the (MTA) check the camera video every month or whatever, then hand it off to the police? Seems like a bit too much work for them now that I think about it.

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I can understand why the MTA went with a three door artic because of the select bus service. We've seen a bunch of these new buses on local route, my question is the MTA losing money due to fare beaters climbing on through the second and rear door? Are these fare beaters getting caught by the operator or is going unnoticed?

 

 

Three-door artics can reduce dwell time considerably compared to two-door artics, because people in the middle of the bus are far less inclined to exit through the front door and delay boardings.

 

We've all seen it and we all (hopefully) hate it, but fare evasion is not a major problem in New York as a whole. There could be more targeted enforcement on particularly problematic bus lines and subway stations, but generally speaking, it doesn't make sense to pay more on enforcement than you'd save in increased fare collections. Also remember that much of the fare evasion is due to the widely tolerated practice of allowing children taller than 44 inches to ride free. Since, officially, only children shorter than 44 inches ride free, any taller child who ducks under a turnstile or waltzes onto the bus without paying is categorized as a fare evader. Cracking down on that policy, for better or for worse, would immediately slash the fare evasion rate considerably.

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Three-door artics can reduce dwell time considerably compared to two-door artics, because people in the middle of the bus are far less inclined to exit through the front door and delay boardings.

 

We've all seen it and we all (hopefully) hate it, but fare evasion is not a major problem in New York as a whole. There could be more targeted enforcement on particularly problematic bus lines and subway stations, but generally speaking, it doesn't make sense to pay more on enforcement than you'd save in increased fare collections. Also remember that much of the fare evasion is due to the widely tolerated practice of allowing children taller than 44 inches to ride free. Since, officially, only children shorter than 44 inches ride free, any taller child who ducks under a turnstile or waltzes onto the bus without paying is categorized as a fare evader. Cracking down on that policy, for better or for worse, would immediately slash the fare evasion rate considerably.

 

Is that much of a problem in NYC? It happens here very sporadically.

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Is that much of a problem in NYC? It happens here very sporadically.

 

 

I don't think most parents or children even know there's a 44-inch rule. I've never once seen it enforced.

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I don't think most parents or children even know there's a 44-inch rule. I've never once seen it enforced.

 

 

When I aw a kid with my parents, the B/O's usually used the metal bar on the RTS that separates the cockpit from the farebox--if you were below it, you got waved through, if you were higher your parents had to pay. I guess it was about 44" high

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When I aw a kid with my parents, the B/O's usually used the metal bar on the RTS that separates the cockpit from the farebox--if you were below it, you got waved through, if you were higher your parents had to pay. I guess it was about 44" high

 

 

I don't know if it's still there, but there used to be a red mark around the vertical bar by the farebox. That red mark was 44 inches high. So you were pretty close - maybe an inch or two too high.

 

But I'm pleasantly surprised to learn that there was any form of enforcement at all. As I said, I've never seen anything of the sort.

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I can understand why the MTA went with a three door artic because of the select bus service. We've seen a bunch of these new buses on local route, my question is the MTA losing money due to fare beaters climbing on through the second and rear door? Are these fare beaters getting caught by the operator or is going unnoticed?

 

 

Well, I'm not particularly sure about other routes, but SBS uses off-board payment, so a fare-beater would be evading fares no matter which door he/she goes through.

 

If/When the MTA does get its smartcard up and running, they could put fare readers at every door as Paris does. It saves dwell time, and smartcard readers are smaller and should be less expensive than a farebox. It probably wouldn't deter farebeaters, but at least it would allow riders to pay and enter to the back.

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Farebeating via back doors has always been an issue, and it's not because the driver is distracted up front; it's because we don't care enough to say anything. I watch my surroundings anytime I'm loading/unloading at a stop, and see the folks getting on through the backdoor, and, to be honest, it's not too much you see it; you'll see back door entry 90% of the time at heavy stops where folks don't want to wait in line and just go through the back door.

 

Best to combat the issue, have the undercover officers onboard buses doing random checks day-in and out. Once this becomes mainstream and summons are issued, you'll have more folks thinking twice before entering the back doors. And for this to work, you'd need 2-4 officers at stops watching.

 

In a few years most lines will be SBS'd, so you'll have the EAGLE team in place to enforce payment.

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In a few years most lines will be SBS'd, so you'll have the EAGLE team in place to enforce payment.

 

 

Do you know if the MTA Security/Eagle TeAm has jurisdiction over all of the bus routes? It seems odd that they can give out summonses for SBS routes but nothing else. Of course, if they did go to ther routes, it might not be worth the cost unless they can recoup the cost of their salaries on those routes with a lot of summonses.

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Do you know if the MTA Security/Eagle TeAm has jurisdiction over all of the bus routes? It seems odd that they can give out summonses for SBS routes but nothing else. Of course, if they did go to ther routes, it might not be worth the cost unless they can recoup the cost of their salaries on those routes with a lot of summonses.

 

 

If it is worked out there is no reason why they shouldnt be able to bring in at least enough to cover the costs of them. I think they would bring in a surplus to the MTA.

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If the Eagle team was made up of some ex-cops and were allowed to make arrests for unruly passengers, then it can work. Just handing out fines won't be enough to some people as they'd probably just rip it up and not pay the fine. I do agree that the busiest stops should have some off board payment to speed up the loading process as you currently have people leaving the front of the bus and leaving the back door wide open.

The only other option would be a separate off loading and loading spots so there won't be a need to worry about people entering the back door (as that would be closed when the bus is ready to load the next group of riders).

Edited by Grand Concourse

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I didn't even know they were called the Eagle team until now, lol. But aren't those currently on only SBS routes? I never see them on any Queens routes, and the Q30 always has people coming in through the back door. Its a pain in the butt when I'm waiting in line in the front to get on while they climb through the back and take all the seats.

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