Stengel Depot Posted January 14, 2013 Share #26 Posted January 14, 2013 There could b pictures of one. But I am not going to take a picture of it. I'm sure there r other mta b/o's willing to back me up on that. I believe the only restriction we have is somewhere on the belt parkway due to a height clearance. I ask you to watch the cross island parkway for example. On a typical weekday morning I'm sure u will be able to count dozens of queens village depot buses deadheading on that parkway which like all other parkways in ny is " passenger cars only". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share #27 Posted January 14, 2013 There could b pictures of one. But I am not going to take a picture of it. I'm sure there r other mta b/o's willing to back me up on that. I believe the only restriction we have is somewhere on the belt parkway due to a height clearance. I ask you to watch the cross island parkway for example. On a typical weekday morning I'm sure u will be able to count dozens of queens village depot buses deadheading on that parkway which like all other parkways in ny is " passenger cars only". Ok, thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stengel Depot Posted January 14, 2013 Share #28 Posted January 14, 2013 Ur welcome. Most people aren't aware of it. That goes for some operators as well.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 14, 2013 Share #29 Posted January 14, 2013 Do you know how many of those signs are up around the city? Take for example on 5th Av below 96th St there are signs that say "Franchise Buses Only", yet us charter/line run guys run 5th with no problem. Same with West End Av above 57th St. That's signed as Passenger Cars Only yet on bad nights when 9th Av is a disaster the line runs guys use it to get down to the Port. The city wants the buses to use certain streets then fine,but make it convenient for the drivers to use them. I know for a fact that Yonkers has permits for the FDR and Henry Hudson. Academy has permits for the Henry Hudson also. HUH the henry hudson if this is true then why is the BXM2 NOT routed to use the henry hudson that would drastically cut down on travel time to the upper west side. NJT would be able to make GWB routes serve major hubs in the UWS. There could b pictures of one. But I am not going to take a picture of it. I'm sure there r other mta b/o's willing to back me up on that. I believe the only restriction we have is somewhere on the belt parkway due to a height clearance. I ask you to watch the cross island parkway for example. On a typical weekday morning I'm sure u will be able to count dozens of queens village depot buses deadheading on that parkway which like all other parkways in ny is " passenger cars only". True but that part of the cross island doesn't have clearances low enough to keep buses off. North of union tpk forget it by LIE and grand central bridges are too low. Buses can use the cross island but only some parts the farthest south you can go is linden blvd but yes your right. Good to know about the belt you have a permit to use which sections exactly? and are restrictions killed for buses shorter than 10"6 as the 18th ave bridge is too low for cruisers. This is news to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stengel Depot Posted January 14, 2013 Share #30 Posted January 14, 2013 Buses can fit on the entire length of the cross island parkway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share #31 Posted January 14, 2013 HUH the henry hudson if this is true then why is the BXM2 NOT routed to use the henry hudson that would drastically cut down on travel time to the upper west side. NJT would be able to make GWB routes serve major hubs in the UWS. Who the hell from the Upper West Side would want to take a bus into Jersey?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 14, 2013 Share #32 Posted January 14, 2013 Who the hell from the Upper West Side would want to take a bus into Jersey?! Well, in all fairness, somebody from NJ could want to take a bus to the Museum of Natural History or Central Park or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 14, 2013 Share #33 Posted January 14, 2013 Who the hell from the Upper West Side would want to take a bus into Jersey?! look at the traffic towards UWS from GWB NUFF SAID. But you have a point One could wait for the then the then the Ohh wait that is 3 trains too many. However Metro-north to penn on the hudson line should put a stop to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 14, 2013 Share #34 Posted January 14, 2013 Buses can fit on the entire length of the cross island parkway HUH!!?? ENTIRE? Are you sure those clearances aren't too low? How do you know this? The part from the belt to the cross island has bridges that is a low one of 9"8 at 130th ave no MTA bus I know can pass under that right? This was northbound. and southbound 9"3 Ohh crap I didn't know that but the cross island is a parking lot why would a bus want to use it? I looked it over on google streetview you learn something new everyday. But I think the clearview is way faster but yeah ok. Where on the belt is this so called restriction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZGuy Posted January 14, 2013 Share #35 Posted January 14, 2013 HUH the henry hudson if this is true then why is the BXM2 NOT routed to use the henry hudson that would drastically cut down on travel time to the upper west side. NJT would be able to make GWB routes serve major hubs in the UWS. Yonkers mainly use the Henry Hudson for deadheading on the shuttle trips to/from Quill. During peak times I don't think it would much faster then the current routing. And personally I don't see NJT going any deeper into the city unless they work out some deal with NYCDOT about sharing stops with TA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 14, 2013 Share #36 Posted January 14, 2013 I know for a fact that Yonkers has permits for the FDR and Henry Hudson. Academy has permits for the Henry Hudson also. This is true actually.... I have seen a BxM1 on the Henry Hudson Parkway (not the service road).... He had no passengers and pretty much just stayed on the parkway... I was on a late BxM2.... For the most part though, most of them take the Major Deegan then take 230th up to Riverdale Avenue and then take that up into the Henry Hudson Parkway (service road) and then back into Riverdale Av upto Yonkers. HUH the henry hudson if this is true then why is the BXM2 NOT routed to use the henry hudson that would drastically cut down on travel time to the upper west side. Would you stop with that stupid routing?? The BxM2 CAN'T use the Henry Hudson Parkway into the Henry Hudson Bridge because if it did it would cut off service to part of Spuyten Duyvil/Southern Riverdale (which are MAJOR stops by the way (Henry Hudson Parkway West & Independence Av, Kappock St & Knolls Crescent & Kappock & Johnson)) and the two stops that it makes in Marble Hill would be eliminated, though those two stops are very lightly used and are in the Bronx/Upper Manhattan border, but still. The point of the BxM2 is not to serve the Upper West Side per se, but to serve the Museum Mile, Lincoln Center and other attractions on the West Side which many Riverdalians go to or work around (i.e. 34th street shopping, Bryant Park area (West Midtown area, MoMA, etc.))... The heart of the ridership is in West Midtown, not the Upper West Side since I consider that 63rd street stop to be on the border of the West Midtown area and it only makes one stop on the true Upper West Side area (72nd street stop which yields some passengers but certainly not like 63rd street or 35th & 6th or other stops along 6th Av or Central Park South). In fact that's why the Northbound portion was re-routed to Madison Av to provide service for those 5th Av/Madison Av folks who want the Upper East Side, which is more connected to Riverdale than the Upper West Side. With no traffic, the trip on the BxM2 to say 63rd & Broadway is 30-40 mins tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 14, 2013 Share #37 Posted January 14, 2013 Yonkers mainly use the Henry Hudson for deadheading on the shuttle trips to/from Quill. During peak times I don't think it would much faster then the current routing. And personally I don't see NJT going any deeper into the city unless they work out some deal with NYCDOT about sharing stops with TA. BXM2 gets more weekend ridership anyway so the majority of BXM2 riders on the weekend will see their trip times plummet by 40+ minutes. This is true actually.... I have seen a BxM1 on the Henry Hudson Parkway (not the service road).... He had no passengers and pretty much just stayed on the parkway... I was on a late BxM2.... For the most part though, most of them take the Major Deegan then take 230th up to Riverdale Avenue and then take that up into the Henry Hudson Parkway (service road) and then back into Riverdale Av upto Yonkers. Would you stop with that stupid routing?? The BxM2 CAN'T use the Henry Hudson Parkway into the Henry Hudson Bridge because if it did it would cut off service to part of Spuyten Duyvil/Southern Riverdale (which are MAJOR stops by the way (Henry Hudson Parkway West & Independence Av, Kappock St & Knolls Crescent & Kappock & Johnson)) and the two stops that it makes in Marble Hill would be eliminated, though those two stops are very lightly used and are in the Bronx/Upper Manhattan border, but still. The point of the BxM2 is not to serve the Upper West Side per se, but to serve the Museum Mile, Lincoln Center and other attractions on the West Side which many Riverdalians go to or work around (i.e. 34th street shopping, Bryant Park area (West Midtown area, MoMA, etc.))... The heart of the ridership is in West Midtown, not the Upper West Side since I consider that 63rd street stop to be on the border of the West Midtown area and it only makes one stop on the true Upper West Side area (72nd street stop which yields some passengers but certainly not like 63rd street or 35th & 6th or other stops along 6th Av or Central Park South). In fact that's why the Northbound portion was re-routed to Madison Av to provide service for those 5th Av/Madison Av folks who want the Upper East Side, which is more connected to Riverdale than the Upper West Side. It can enter the henry hudson from inwood thus eliminating that case and BXM1 having 2 stops on madison and 5th eliminating need for the 2 to go there. while the 1 can go back to 3rd ave and lexington for the rest of the stops. In west midtown what are the most utilized stops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 14, 2013 Share #38 Posted January 14, 2013 BXM2 gets more weekend ridership anyway so the majority of BXM2 riders on the weekend will see their trip times plummet by 40+ minutes. It can enter the henry hudson from inwood thus eliminating that case and BXM1 having 2 stops on madison and 5th eliminating need for the 2 to go there. while the 1 can go back to 3rd ave and lexington for the rest of the stops. In west midtown what are the most utilized stops? Yeah but the BxM2 still gets decent usage during the week and those buses can be full as well so don't be fooled by that whole higher usage on weekends. It has major stops during the week that serve Mount Sinai Hospital (many Riverdalians work there (doctors, clinical researchers, etc.)) and 81st & 5th is also another major stop because of the art/cultural institutions along there and the Upper East Side connection as well. Aside from that the first 3 stops are important ones (35th & 6th, 40th & 6th & 53rd and 6th), but the Central Park South stop also gets use... The BxM1 stops in Inwood to provide East Side access because the doesn't provide that and would require multiple transfers (making for an annoying but not impossible commute), so there is no point to have the BxM2 serve Inwood. In fact if it wasn't for that issue the BxM1 would not serve Inwood and even so Inwood service has continued to be cut back to speed up the commutes for us Riverdalians who need the service more since we have longer commutes. In any event, it would be pointless to have the BxM2 use the Henry Hudson Parkway because it would sever at least half if not more of the ridership... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 14, 2013 Share #39 Posted January 14, 2013 Yeah but the BxM2 still gets decent usage during the week and those buses can be full as well so don't be fooled by that whole higher usage on weekends. It has major stops during the week that serve Mount Sinai Hospital (many Riverdalians work there (doctors, clinical researchers, etc.)) and 81st & 5th is also another major stop because of the art/cultural institutions along there and the Upper East Side connection as well. Aside from that the first 3 stops are important ones (35th & 6th, 40th & 6th & 53rd and 6th), but the Central Park South stop also gets use... The BxM1 stops in Inwood to provide East Side access because the doesn't provide that and would require multiple transfers (making for an annoying but not impossible commute), so there is no point to have the BxM2 serve Inwood. In fact if it wasn't for that issue the BxM1 would not serve Inwood and even so Inwood service has continued to be cut back to speed up the commutes for us Riverdalians who need the service more since we have longer commutes. In any event, it would be pointless to have the BxM2 use the Henry Hudson Parkway because it would sever at least half if not more of the ridership... Well the henry hudson it can get to west midtown faster southbound it must go through inwood in order to reach the henry hudson. Well why can't 5th ave ridership just use BXM1 and have 2nd ave 122nd st be a transfer point to 5th ave BXM routes that are sometimes more frequent combined than the local buses. I saw a few Northbound BXM2s that were full when they reached columbus circle. BXM2's weekday ridership compared to many other lines is weak. Even the BM4 has more weekday riders. But BXM2 is unique as it has more weekend riders which is not normal for an express bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 14, 2013 Share #40 Posted January 14, 2013 Well the henry hudson it can get to west midtown faster southbound it must go through inwood in order to reach the henry hudson. Well why can't 5th ave ridership just use BXM1 and have 2nd ave 122nd st be a transfer point to 5th ave BXM routes that are sometimes more frequent combined than the local buses. I saw a few Northbound BXM2s that were full when they reached columbus circle. BXM2's weekday ridership compared to many other lines is weak. Even the BM4 has more weekday riders. But BXM2 is unique as it has more weekend riders which is not normal for an express bus. Simple... Because there's enough demand for service down 5th Avenue and Madison, hence the addition of the BxM18, which has steadily gained more ridership since 2007. If you think Riverdalians are going to get off in Harlem to transfer you've got to be out of your mind. There's a reason why Riverdale has three express buses and is unique in having a West Midtown express bus down to 34th street... Demand... The BxM2 is fine... The difference between the BxM2 and the BxM1 may be core ridership... The BxM2 sees more occasional riders but that isn't a bad thing per se because this helps the route and makes it difficult to cut. In 2007, before the financial meltdown, the BxM2 had yearly ridership totals of 337,712... If you combine the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18, the ridership in 2007 was only second to the BxM7, so the BxM2 overall carries better than many other neighborhoods that have just one express bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share #41 Posted January 14, 2013 I don't know how this turned into a debate like this, but here... ---Time for some statistics! (Via, why are you using 5+ year old statistics from 2007?!) Here's 2011 statistics: Ridership Statistics The BxM2 has the second worst ridership per bus levels of all express buses, and the BxM1 has the eighth worst ridership per bus levels. (Put into perspective, the X16 averaged 2.5 times as many riders per bus and the X90 averaged 2 times as many riders per bus as the BxM2 currently does) Ironically, the BxM2 has more riders per bus on the weekends than on weekdays. On the typical weekday, the BxM1+BxM2+BxM18 yields 2720 riders, which is beat by the X1 5858, X17 5692, X27/X37 3013, BxM7 3045, X28/X38 3018, and the X10 2964. That level of ridership is pathetic to say the least for an area that has a bus every 5 minutes during rush hour and 15 minutes off peak. (Riverdale Express Buses Schedule) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 14, 2013 Share #42 Posted January 14, 2013 I don't know how this turned into a debate like this, but here...--- Time for some statistics! (Via, why are you using 5+ year old statistics from 2007?!) Here's 2011 statistics: Ridership Statistics The BxM2 has the second worst ridership per bus levels of all express buses, and the BxM1 has the eighth worst ridership per bus levels. (Put into perspective, the X16 averaged 2.5 times as many riders per bus and the X90 averaged 2 times as many riders per bus as the BxM2 currently does) Ironically, the BxM2 has more riders per bus on the weekends than on weekdays. On the typical weekday, the BxM1+BxM2+BxM18 yields 2720 riders, which is beat by the X1 5858, X17 5692, X27/X37 3013, BxM7 3045, X28/X38 3018, and the X10 2964. That level of ridership is pathetic to say the least for an area that has a bus every 5 minutes during rush hour and 15 minutes off peak. (Riverdale Express Buses Schedule) lol... You're comparing 2011 stats to when the X90 and X16 used to run... You're also comparing the BxM1 and BxM2 which run 7 days a week to the X16 and X90 which only ran during rush hour... If you want to really compare something, you'd compare rush hour service on the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 to those buses... The BxM18 did not always exist BTW and only has 7 runs each way, so it's natural that the route wouldn't be exploding with riders , but the buses that I take especially in the morning are packed and the later BxM18s have decent ridership as well. Since 2007, the BxM18 has grown by almost 20,000 riders annually, an average of almost 4,000 riders annually.... It's also good to note that when Bus took over the Riverdale express buses, they were running crap service which meant that many people stopped using the service because it became unreliable. It's only through numerous complaints to local representatives that express bus reliability in Riverdale became better along with the new buses which was also an issue with breakdowns with the Liberty Line buses. #2, The annual ridership stats for the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 combined was 803,625 for 2011, and only the BxM1 saw a loss of ridership. I think it's cute how suddenly you've become such a critic on express bus service ever since your X90 was cut which BTW was extremely wasteful.... Don't think I didn't see those empty X90s on the FDR in the evenings with one or two riders on them... I always thought it was ridiculous that us folks on Staten Island couldn't even get buses past 18:30 when we had far longer commutes while you guys had buses back to Yorkville/Upper East Side until around 19:30 if not later and you're in friggin' Manhattan with empty buses to boot!! Those Riverdale stats don't tell the whole story and as the economy gets better, the ridership on our buses will continue to grow. I brought up 2007 because that was when the economy was doing well before the meltdown to show how well all three routes were doing. It's a known fact that ridership on buses in general has been on the decline, be it local or express across the city, so don't sit here to try to make it out as if Riverdale receives an excess in service... Maybe every bus isn't packed to the rafters, but we do use our buses and mind you we also have MetroNorth which takes away some of our ridership, so considering that we do just fine. Instead of sitting around nitpicking at other communities who have fought to keep their express bus service, you should be out fighting for your own express bus service, but instead you cry foul at other communities. Typical. You pulled the same BS with Bay Ridge as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 15, 2013 Share #43 Posted January 15, 2013 (Via, why are you using 5+ year old statistics from 2007?!) Here's 2011 statistics: Ridership Statistics The BxM2 has the second worst ridership per bus levels of all express buses, and the BxM1 has the eighth worst ridership per bus levels. (Put into perspective, the X16 averaged 2.5 times as many riders per bus and the X90 averaged 2 times as many riders per bus as the BxM2 currently does) Ironically, the BxM2 has more riders per bus on the weekends than on weekdays. On the typical weekday, the BxM1+BxM2+BxM18 yields 2720 riders, which is beat by the X1 5858, X17 5692, X27/X37 3013, BxM7 3045, X28/X38 3018, and the X10 2964. That level of ridership is pathetic to say the least for an area that has a bus every 5 minutes during rush hour and 15 minutes off peak. (Riverdale Express Buses Schedule) The 2007 stats were because the ridership was higher and the economy was better before. In any case, I prefer to look at cost per passenger rather than ridership per bus, and if you use that metric, the BxM1 performs pretty well (above-average anyway) The BxM2 doesn't perform as well, but it's not second-worst in the system when you look at it on a cost per passenger basis. Neither of the Riverdale routes have tons of deadheading involved, so the routes are fairly efficient. The lower ridership per bus is (at least partially in the case of the BxM2) made up for by the fact that buses spend less fuel moving around empty. #2, The annual ridership stats for the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 combined was 803,625 for 2011, and only the BxM1 saw a loss of ridership. And the BxM1's ridership made up the bulk of the ridership of the 3 Riverdale routes, so that resulted in an overall loss, so it's not "only" the BxM1. The BxM1 lost 21,227 riders from 2010-2011, whereas the BxM2 only gained 1,980, and the BxM18 only gained 1,212. That adds up to 3,192. The last I checked 3,192 is a lot less than 21,227. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so ridership is decreasing throughout the city and yadda yadda yadda. But let's stop with this switching back and forth. The ridership trends on the Riverdale express routes are no different than the trends throughout the city, so despite all this "affluence" in Riverdale, it hasn't caused the trend to be significantly different than the trend throughout the city. Now that I think about it, why the hell did this discussion turn to Riverdale express routes anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share #44 Posted January 15, 2013 Now that I think about it, why the hell did this discussion turn to Riverdale express routes anyway? QJT suggested routing the BxM2 down the Henry Hudson (which I personally would agree with as it would significantly decrease travel time, and the BxM1 makes stops within easy walking distance of the two BxM2 stops on the east side) Then Via went apeshit on him for the mere suggestion of altering those express buses in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 15, 2013 Share #45 Posted January 15, 2013 QJT suggested routing the BxM2 down the Henry Hudson (which I personally would agree with as it would significantly decrease travel time, and the BxM1 makes stops within easy walking distance of the two BxM2 stops on the east side) Then Via went apeshit on him for the mere suggestion of altering those express buses in any way shape or form. Yeah because if you're going to do then there's no point in having the BxM2 at all... The BxM1 is about one hour most of the time from end to end... Same thing with the BxM2, so I'm not understanding this desire to cut the run time... Really makes no sense at all. I got no problem making suggestions but this one is just ridiculous. If you rode the route it would make more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted January 15, 2013 Share #46 Posted January 15, 2013 Every MTA bus has a DOT permit in them (usually behind the driver or up where the bus registration is) The only restriction on the Belt is between Flatbush Av and Pennsylvania Av since that drawbridge in Mill Basin has a weight limit to it. The only parkway where buses really can't fit is the Jackie Robinson. Eastern, Cross Island, Ocean and Pelham (obviously) Parkways are all legit to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 15, 2013 Share #47 Posted January 15, 2013 Every MTA bus has a DOT permit in them (usually behind the driver or up where the bus registration is) The only restriction on the Belt is between Flatbush Av and Pennsylvania Av since that drawbridge in Mill Basin has a weight limit to it. The only parkway where buses really can't fit is the Jackie Robinson. Eastern, Cross Island, Ocean and Pelham (obviously) Parkways are all legit to use. well ya learn something new everyday. So the MTA was EFFIN around when they created this story of why they couldn't send QM16 to downtown manhattan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted January 15, 2013 Share #48 Posted January 15, 2013 Why would you send it downtown in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Run Trains Posted January 15, 2013 Share #49 Posted January 15, 2013 Do you mean downtown traffic, as in you've taken the southbound FDR Drive? I don't think an MCI can fit under 96th to get to the northbound side, and even if it could the merge onto the highway would be disastrous. Please follow the law and don't endanger innocent motorists. You the Police?!?!??! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 15, 2013 Share #50 Posted January 15, 2013 Why would you send it downtown in the first place...I wouldn't I heard about residents there calling for downtown QM16 service. But I do not know enough about that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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