BxM11 on FDR Drive at 125th Street??

[checkmatechamp13]

In short, the BxM2 used to run on the West Side and as a result lost ridership. 

 

When?

 

3rd ave to west side DUDE take a bloddy crosstown.

 

Why would you do that when the whole point of the BxM2 reroute was to help Upper West Side/West Midtown riders anyway?

[Gorgor]

The thing is that THE AVERAGE BXM2 BUS AVERAGES 10.7 RIDERS PER BUS, the 2nd worst on any express bus line.  If ridership on the BxM2 was anywhere near decent then we wouldn't be suggesting this.  The BxM2 is also the only express bus that is more crowded on the weekends than weekdays (11 riders per bus, just a little but still more).

 

You're comparing it to the X1/X10/X17 which is ridiculous.  Don't even give me that "Staten Island has to rely on express buses but we have other options up here in Riverdale" crap if you're going to compare the two.

X1: 33.5 riders per bus

X10: 28 riders per bus

X17: 32.7 riders per bus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing is that THE AVERAGE BXM2 BUS AVERAGES 10.7 RIDERS PER BUS, the 2nd worst on any express bus line.  If ridership on the BxM2 was anywhere near decent then we wouldn't be suggesting this.  The BxM2 is also the only express bus that is more crowded on the weekends than weekdays (11 riders per bus, just a little but still more).

 

You're comparing it to the X1/X10/X17 which is ridiculous.  Don't even give me that "Staten Island has to rely on express buses but we have other options up here in Riverdale" crap if you're going to compare the two.

X1: 33.5 riders per bus

X10: 28 riders per bus

X17: 32.7 riders per bus

Yes, the average but that doesn't tell the entire story because some of those are based on early runs back to Riverdale in the morning, which naturally are not going to have tons of riders. I know because I've used them myself, so that's one reason why the averages look lower.  The same thing would apply to the X1, X10 and X17.  The thing is you have universities and such here and folks that come to work in Riverdale, so some of those people do use those buses though obviously not nearly in the same way that we do going to Manhattan in the mornings or afternoon or back to Riverdale in the afternoon or at night.  You still have to provide half hour service going to the city because otherwise the buses would be SRO, so those buses are either going to deadhead all the way back to Yonkers OR you can put them in service and have them pick up a some folks which is what they do.  I should also note that the re-route down Madison Avenue from the Upper West Side only occurred back in 2011, so it is far too soon to say how it will pan out but considering the economy, the BxM2 was one of the few Bus express buses that did not lose ridership in 2011. 

 

What has been shown is that the West Side routing was making matters WORSE in terms of ridership because the stops on the West Side above 72nd street was not being utilized and the thinking was that they were too far away from the 5th Avenue stops, which is pretty obvious.

 

Despite all of your complaining, the BxM2 is still 16th overall out of all Bus express buses and it is one out of three routes for Riverdale while the BxM1 is 7th overall so that is not that bad when you consider that there is also the BxM1 and BxM18.  And you can't really cut the BxM18 or try to merge it with the BxM2 either because ridership has grown by almost 20,000 riders since 2007 and has continued to grow each year.

 

I just want to wait and see the numbers for 2012 and if all three routes see gains in ridership then that'll shut you up.

 

You don't have anything to say about those EMPTY X90s that I used to see on the FDR though at night... Why am I not surprised... Why don't you put up the stats for that...   

 

 Riverdale 3 (express buses) Upper East Side 0 (express buses) 

[Gorgor]

Yes, the average but that doesn't tell the entire story because some of those are based on early runs back to Riverdale in the morning, which naturally are not going to have tons of riders. I know because I've used them myself, so that's one reason why the averages look lower.  The same thing would apply to the X1, X10 and X17.  The thing is you have universities and such here and folks that come to work in Riverdale, so some of those people do use those buses though obviously not nearly in the same way that we do going to Manhattan in the mornings or afternoon or back to Riverdale in the afternoon or at night.  You still have to provide half hour service going to the city because otherwise the buses would be SRO, so those buses are either going to deadhead all the way back to Yonkers OR you can put them in service and have them pick up a some folks which is what they do.  I should also note that the re-route down Madison Avenue from the Upper West Side only occurred back in 2011, so it is far too soon to say how it will pan out but considering the economy, the BxM2 was one of the few Bus express buses that did not lose ridership in 2011. 

 

What has been shown is that the West Side routing was making matters WORSE in terms of ridership because the stops on the West Side above 72nd street was not being utilized and the thinking was that they were too far away from the 5th Avenue stops, which is pretty obvious.

 

Despite all of your complaining, the BxM2 is still 16th overall out of all Bus express buses and it is one out of three routes for Riverdale while the BxM1 is 7th overall so that is not that bad when you consider that there is also the BxM1 and BxM18.  And you can't really cut the BxM18 or try to merge it with the BxM2 either because ridership has grown by almost 20,000 riders since 2007 and has continued to grow each year.

 

I just want to wait and see the numbers for 2012 and if all three routes see gains in ridership then that'll shut you up.

 

You don't have anything to say about those EMPTY X90s that I used to see on the FDR though at night... Why am I not surprised... Why don't you put up the stats for that...   

 

 Riverdale 3 (express buses) Upper East Side 0 (express buses) 

 

Well the average X90 averaged 20.3 riders per bus, nearly double that of the average BxM2, so I don't see what you're going on about.

 

And the BxM2 is #33 in terms of express bus ridership, with the BxM1 at #16.  (BxM18 has the 3rd to least ridership, but at 21.6 people per bus it handles well enough)

 

Of course there's going to be certain runs that are packed, just as there are for almost every route out there.  It's just that the average shows that either there isn't much ridership or that it runs too frequently.

 

(And I didn't make any mention of altering the BxM1/BxM18)

[qjtransitmaster]

Which then means that you eat whatever time you've saved taking a crosstown bus, defeating the purpose of the express bus.

 

What a ridiculous statement.  5th Avenue is neither east nor west.  Your plan increases the costs to run express buses in Riverdale, by forcing people to take the BxM1 that really need the BxM2 #1 and forces the to run more BxM1s unnecessarily while running emptier BxM2s.  That's exactly why some BxM1s have been cut where possible to decrease costs while extending the BxM2 to run a bit longer.  You seemed to have forgotten that the BxM18 serves 5th Avenue below 57th street during rush hours, so there is no need to have the BxM1s running down 5th Avenue. This comes down to what the community needs, as opposed to what you're trying to push on us.  We like our service the way it is and for whatever reason you can't leave well alone.  Ridership on the BxM2 has started to stabilize a bit after the re-route in 2011 and now here you come with this ridiculous idea that won't save time and will force the line to lose ridership.  Riverdale also has a large senior community that would not care for this idea at all since many of them use the express buses for doctor's appointments in the city and this would potentially increase their commutes significantly.

 

Now I originally questioned why Riverdale needed three express buses, but after riding all three lines myself and moving there and realizing my own traveling habits, it became very clear to me that all three routes afford me to have extreme convenience, eliminating lengthy crosstown transfers and long walks.  That's like cutting off service for areas of Staten Island that have access to the X10 and X17 or the X1 and X10.  

err if BXM18 has open door transfer stops to other express buses why can't people simply transfer from BXM18 to BXM7/8/9/10 all of which run down 5th ave. At 122nd and 2nd ave? Then those for downtown can go to BXM18 from those buses and vice verse thus eliminating your argument for the BXM18 and 2 dead in the water. Express buses are not for open door service within manhattan there is the subway for that. I don't wanna take the train TOO BAD! NYC is built on it deal with it you want only buses move to NJ or MD.  west midtown to 5th ave hmm there is the and the sorry but your stance makes no sense. The BXM2 reroute was meant to decrease travel time to west midtown. and lincoln center and popular stops. Sorry but there is no other place in NYC with 15 min off-peak express service other than riverdale and the total numbers don't even justify it's levels. It only gets the levels due to the BXM2/1 and segmented ridership to different areas. Places like union tpk don't get enough service ESPECIALLY SI!!! Several lines have higher ridership yet don't get the same off-peak treatment that is NOT fair. Especially to lines like the X1 MTA needs to treat express lines fairly by their numbers but I do think riverdale gets good frequencies and people should just reject the infrequent local buses. CMON how do you see more express buses than locals?

 

OK I saw the new schedule X17 got a massive upgrade to every 20 minutes on saturdays mostly and it's weekday reverse service is an atrocity. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

err if BXM18 has open door transfer stops to other express buses why can't people simply transfer from BXM18 to BXM7/8/9/10 all of which run down 5th ave. At 122nd and 2nd ave? Then those for downtown can go to BXM18 from those buses and vice verse thus eliminating your argument for the BXM18 and 2 dead in the water. Express buses are not for open door service within manhattan there is the subway for that. I don't wanna take the train TOO BAD! NYC is built on it deal with it you want only buses move to NJ or MD.  west midtown to 5th ave hmm there is the and the sorry but your stance makes no sense. The BXM2 reroute was meant to decrease travel time to west midtown. and lincoln center and popular stops. Sorry but there is no other place in NYC with 15 min off-peak express service other than riverdale and the total numbers don't even justify it's levels. It only gets the levels due to the BXM2/1 and segmented ridership to different areas. Places like union tpk don't get enough service ESPECIALLY SI!!! Several lines have higher ridership yet don't get the same off-peak treatment that is NOT fair. Especially to lines like the X1 or 17. MTA needs to treat express lines fairly by their numbers but I do think riverdale gets good frequencies and people should just reject the infrequent local buses. CMON how do you see more express buses than locals?

LOL!! Stop complaining already. When I lived on Staten Island, I along with many other Staten Islanders advocated for increased bus service to Vito Fossella and the .  The X1 has sufficient service and now has 24/7 service, not to mention the numerous variations of the X1.  The X17 also got a boost in service so spare me with the nonsense.

[qjtransitmaster]

LOL!! Stop complaining already. When I lived on Staten Island, I along with many other Staten Islanders advocated for increased bus service to Vito Fossella and the .  The X1 has sufficient service and now has 24/7 service, not to mention the numerous variations of the X1.  The X17 also got a boost in service so spare me with the nonsense.

I noticed I saw the new schedule X1 what I am saying is if riverdale can have manhattan variants full-time why not the X1? What about 15 min off-peak service with every other bus being X2 or 1 or 1 and 7. I mean manhattan bound service actually being enhanced from manhattan it's godly compared to other lines.

 

Looks like I overlooked SI a bit there man but manhattan bound service can use an upgrade look at the frequent DHs to cover X1's schedule. Those should be revenue runs rather than DHs. Looks like service is being upgraded allover but still.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well the average X90 averaged 20.3 riders per bus, nearly double that of the average BxM2, so I don't see what you're going on about.

 

And the BxM2 is #33 in terms of express bus ridership, with the BxM1 at #16.  (BxM18 has the 3rd to least ridership, but at 21.6 people per bus it handles well enough)

 

Of course there's going to be certain runs that are packed, just as there are for almost every route out there.  It's just that the average shows that either there isn't much ridership or that it runs too frequently.

 

(And I didn't make any mention of altering the BxM1/BxM18)

LOL... I love how you try to skew the numbers for your own needs... The BxM1 is #7 in terms of express bus ridership and the BxM2 is #16.    Bus and NYCT are NOT the same, so stop trying to lump them together. The way you try to disguise the numbers even the BxM7 would look like a low ridership route and believe me I do see some rather empty BxM7s at times so I guess you want those cut too.    As for the BxM18 that route has 7 runs in each direction #1 and #2 is a fairly new route implemented into Bus, but nice try, as that route has grown each year since 2007 to almost a gain of 20,000 riders up to 2011.  Your X90 may have averaged 20.3 riders but that's still not that great because you guys had far more runs than say the BxM18 which means you had some empty buses which I saw often on the FDR going back to Yorkville, so if you want to talk about too much service the X90 certainly had it.  You're just pissed that we have more political clout than your beloved Upper East Side...  Considering that we have MetroNorth and there's a recession going on our numbers still are pretty good at over 800,000 between with the three routes combined and before the recession close to 1 million riders annually.  One route by itself would be 2nd in the Bus express bus system only behind the BxM7 and Co-Op city doesn't have MetroNorth like we do, so spare me with the "terrible stats" nonsense.

 

 

I noticed I saw the new schedule X1 what I am saying is if riverdale can have manhattan variants full-time why not the X1? What about 15 min off-peak service with every other bus being X2 or 1 or 1 and 7.

lol... The X1 has a MUCH LONGER run than the BxM1 and BxM2... Most BxM1 runs and BxM2 runs are done in less than an hour from end to end.  Some X1 runs take double that from end to end at 2 hours.

[checkmatechamp13]

OK I saw the new schedule X17 got a massive upgrade to every 20 minutes on saturdays mostly and it's weekday reverse service is an atrocity. 

 

The "massive upgrade" happened even before the Brooklyn stop was added. Where have you been?

 

And that weekday extension is an atrocity as well.

 

1) LOL... I love how you try to skew the numbers to suite your needs... The BxM1 is #7 in terms of express bus ridership and the BxM2 is #16.    Bus and NYCT are NOT the same, so stop trying to lump them together. The way you try to disguise the numbers even the BxM7 would look like a low ridership route and believe me I do see some rather empty BxM7s at times so I guess you want those cut too.   

 

2) lol... The X1 has a MUCH LONGER run than the BxM1 and BxM2... Most BxM1 runs and BxM2 runs are done in less than an hour from end to end.  Some X1 runs take double that from end to end at 2 hours.

 

1) I love how you still haven't learned the difference between "suit" and "suite".

 

And yes, they are the same: They're both express buses.

 

2) Which has jack shit to do with what he's saying.

[qjtransitmaster]

The "massive upgrade" happened even before the Brooklyn stop was added. Where have you been?

 

And that weekday extension is an atrocity as well.

 

 

1) I love how you still haven't learned the difference between "suit" and "suite".

 

And yes, they are the same: They're both express buses.

 

2) Which has jack shit to do with what he's saying.

I would have just added X22s or reroute X10 via the west shore expressway to cover X22 off-peak which would be a much shorter run time than x17 extension. Then make most SI express buses bidirectional. Let some X1 DHs become X2s and X31s.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I would have just added X22s or reroute X10 via the west shore expressway to cover X22 off-peak which would be a much shorter run time than x17 extension. Then make most SI express buses bidirectional. Let some X1 DHs become X2s and X31s.

Oh boy.... There is NO need to run tons of X22s or X31s and you don't need to run X2s like that either.  I've used the last X2 in the mornings and it is not even half full so there is no need to run more X2s from New Dorp.  You are just talking out of your @ss now.  They've already added a few X2s so that they could get more folks off of the X1 because it is one of the LONGEST express bus routes to operate, which makes it fairly expensive to run even with the high ridership.  The longer the run the more expensive it usually is even with higher ridership.  That's the only reason why BxM2s are costly is because of some of the early less used runs during the mornings back to Riverdale, but as ridership continues to grow costs will go down because the route can be run under an hour while the X1 can take two hours from end to end.

[checkmatechamp13]

I would have just added X22s or reroute X10 via the west shore expressway to cover X22 off-peak which would be a much shorter run time than x17 extension. Then make most SI express buses bidirectional. Let some X1 DHs become X2s and X31s.

 

Did I just read what I think I read???

 

And I guess that ignore function isn't working too well, eh, VG8?

[qjtransitmaster]

Did I just read what I think I read???

 

And I guess that ignore function isn't working too well, eh, VG8?

middays only though but I think X22 off-peak is still better.

 

Oh boy.... There is NO need to run tons of X22s or X31s and you don't need to run X2s like that either.  I've used the last X2 in the mornings and it is not even half full so there is no need to run more X2s from New Dorp.  You are just talking out of your @ss now.  They've already added a few X2s so that they could get more folks off of the X1 because it is one of the LONGEST express bus routes to operate, which makes it fairly expensive to run even with the high ridership.  The longer the run the more expensive it usually is even with higher ridership.  That's the only reason why BxM2s are costly is because of some of the early less used runs during the mornings back to Riverdale, but as ridership continues to grow costs will go down because the route can be run under an hour while the X1 can take two hours from end to end.

The X2s and X31s added are equal to the number of DHs from SI yukon to west midtown divided by 2 that becomes it's off-peak service and is interlined with X1 putting those empty buses to use.

[Fresh Pond]

Ok, im going to be the odd man out here...

 

...what the hell does anything you guys talking about have to do with a BxM11 being on the FDR in that area?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok, im going to be the odd man out here...

 

...what the hell does anything you guys talking about have to do with a BxM11 being on the FDR in that area?

Let's see... The BxM11 was on the FDR because it was taking a short cut.  Then the conversation progressed about how other express bus routes take short cuts on the FDR or other parkways, etc. here in the city and the suggestion was made to re-route some routes with the same mentality... That they would be quicker... One being the BxM2... I mean if we were going to just have the question answered as to why the BxM11 was on that part of the FDR drive, this thread would've died once that question was answered.  The fact of the matter is you have an issue with how the conversation has evolved, which isn't any of our problems.  If you don't like it, then don't read it, that's all.  No one is forcing you to come in here since you seem to take issue with topics discussing express buses. 

[Fresh Pond]

Because it's like whenever someone makes a thread about an express bus, it somehow magically turns into a whole debate about the BxM2 or BxM1 and it just buries the relevant posts about the actual topic in pages of irrelevant stuff.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Because it's like whenever someone makes a thread about an express bus, it somehow magically turns into a whole debate about the BxM2 or BxM1 and it just buries the relevant posts about the actual topic in pages of irrelevant stuff.

It didn't magically occur... You can thank qj for bringing up the BxM2.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

Because it's like whenever someone makes a thread about an express bus, it somehow magically turns into a whole debate about the BxM2 or BxM1 and it just buries the relevant posts about the actual topic in pages of irrelevant stuff.

for the record I am done with the topic. Feel free to flame or debate eachother as you please.

[FamousNYLover]

When Bee-Line BxM4C were $5.50 or $5.00, I remember some I have been on White Plains-bound BxM4C used local streets near I-95 and southbound used through Inwood-Harlem River Drive.

[qjtransitmaster]

Ok lets stop now buses are allowed to do that yuki.