Jump to content

Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
Kendell

Does any one what the South Brooklyn Railroad was?

Recommended Posts

there is no direct correct answer to your question,

 

as the South Brooklyn Railway IS, not was, a freight railroad that is a wholey owned subsidiary of NYCTA. It connects the subway at 40th street and 4th ave in Brooklyn to New York-New Jersey Rail (FKA New York Cross Harbor) at First avenue. Orginaly, the line contitued west through the lower level of 9th ave station, and branched off and ran along the orginal Culver Line route on street level to Coney Island Yard. this section was closed in the 1970s

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are two work locomotives painted in South Brooklyn Railway scheme (red and white) and are numbered N1 and N2, they can be found in work service anywhere on the Subway however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In plain easy terms its owned by MTA connects the subway system to the North American rail network to allow subway cars and other things to be delivered by rail to the MTA/NYCTA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In plain easy terms its owned by MTA connects the subway system to the North American rail network to allow subway cars and other things to be delivered by rail to the MTA/NYCTA

 

Now, in theory, wouldn't this connection to the national Rail network subject NYCT to FRA regulations? I was under the impression that the lack of FRA oversight came from the fact that the tracks don't cross state lines, and don't directly connect to the national network. 

 

  • Is it the fact that a carfloat is required that exempts it? (I.E. there isn't an actual rail connection without the use of a boat)
  • I've read the SBRR connects to the LIRR bay ridge branch - which in turn connects to the fremont secondary, over the hell gate bridge and to the rest of the country... isn't that a direct track connection? (if I've read correctly, and what I read has been correct)
  • Is there a special waiver or exclusion in effect that exempts it? 

Anyway, curious about this. If anyone knows I'd be really glad to hear what's up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The subway has always connected to the national railroad network. For many years there were three locations- one from the old NYWB in the Bronx, one at Linden Yard in Brooklyn, and one at SBK. The  first was severed years ago, and I believe at least part of the second was removed, but the third remains, although with recent construction, it may not have been continually intact. 

 

Your supposition is a commonly held yet incorrect statement. (So you could have easily heard that from many people.)

 

Crossing state lines does not result in FRA regulation either. PATCO is not FRA compliant IINM. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one in Linden shops still remains...now the one that was directly connected to the (L) was severed back then they started the CBTC conversion

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Is it the fact that a carfloat is required that exempts it? (I.E. there isn't an actual rail connection without the use of a boat)
  • I've read the SBRR connects to the LIRR bay ridge branch - which in turn connects to the fremont secondary, over the hell gate bridge and to the rest of the country... isn't that a direct track connection? (if I've read correctly, and what I read has been correct)

Correct me if I'm wrong… All these connections have in common is that trains can't use them without reversing directions once or twice or they do not have a physical connection (such as the boat thing). The keyword is "direct" which suggests a train can access it with just the throw of a switch. It's much more difficult to cross a subway train into rail territory (and the other way around) when the operation has enough procedures to make accidents unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
as the South Brooklyn Railway IS, not was, a freight railroad that is a wholey owned subsidiary of NYCTA. It connects the subway at 40th street and 4th ave in Brooklyn to New York-New Jersey Rail (FKA New York Cross Harbor) at First avenue. Orginaly, the line contitued west through the lower level of 9th ave station, and branched off and ran along the orginal Culver Line route on street level to Coney Island Yard. this section was closed in the 1970s

 

As a 5 year old I can barely remember when they still had the street level tracks along that original Culver line along McDonald Ave when the abandoned elevated spur from 9th ave still existed before it was demolished. The street level tracks along the docks past 3rd Ave by the industrial complexes still exist I've noticed where the roads were never paved over. (Correct me if I'm wrong, It's been a while since I've been in that part of Brooklyn)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a 5 year old I can barely remember when they still had the street level tracks along that original Culver line along McDonald Ave when the abandoned elevated spur from 9th ave still existed before it was demolished. The street level tracks along the docks past 3rd Ave by the industrial complexes still exist I've noticed where the roads were never paved over. (Correct me if I'm wrong, It's been a while since I've been in that part of Brooklyn)

 

apparently some of those tracks were rebuilt in the 38-39 St area where it crosses 2 Ave to head over to the yard by the car floats. At the right time of day you can catch some freight action there. I just don't know when. I've also heard that some of the employees for that railroad, Not SBK but I think its NYNJ Rail tend to yell at photographers photographing near their yard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read in an article in nycsubway.org which states that's how they got the then newly built R44 cars (Or was it the R46's too? Going by memory here)  into the subway system, via that portion of the South Brooklyn Railway into the West End Line I'm assuming, or something like that.



Also the R44s after the general overhaul back in the 90's.



OK now I actually googled it and found this interesting link on the South Brooklyn Railway. Here you go guys: 

 

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/sbr.html#History

 

 

Private Ownership

   

The South Brooklyn Railway or "SBK" (as it is known within New York area railfanning groups) as organized, was unique in the fact that it at one time; handled both freight and passenger service. This webpage will focus itself upon the freight aspects of their operations, with intermittent mention of passenger operations where relevant.

 

   In these earliest days, the railroad was known as the South Brooklyn Railroad & Terminal Company. It was not an operating railroad in that it owned no locomotives or rolling stock, but had been merely organized as a property holder no longer than a few city blocks, which was organized with the intent to be leased to another operating railroad that wished to the connect to the Ferry Terminal at the foot of 39th Street. Unfortunately this did not take place and the tracks remained unused.

 

That's just the beginning of quite a lengthy article on it's history.



And map:

 

BkTermSchematic4.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now, in theory, wouldn't this connection to the national Rail network subject NYCT to FRA regulations? I was under the impression that the lack of FRA oversight came from the fact that the tracks don't cross state lines, and don't directly connect to the national network. 

 

  • Is it the fact that a carfloat is required that exempts it? (I.E. there isn't an actual rail connection without the use of a boat)
  • I've read the SBRR connects to the LIRR bay ridge branch - which in turn connects to the fremont secondary, over the hell gate bridge and to the rest of the country... isn't that a direct track connection? (if I've read correctly, and what I read has been correct)
  • Is there a special waiver or exclusion in effect that exempts it? 

Anyway, curious about this. If anyone knows I'd be really glad to hear what's up. 

 

The subway's track connections are for the purpose of delivering new equipment and supplies. they are not part of an active, revenue generating service over which trains can travel. the MTA is little more than a customer reciving a delivery, no diffrent than spotting box cars next to a warehouse.

 

Conversly, the reason why SIRT and PATH are always discussed when FRA requirments are mentioned is that thier services shared tracks with freight trains and other mainline passenger trains respectivly in the past, after the government declared a legal seperation of railroad and rapid transit lines in 1917.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Kamen Rider" data-cid="634546" data-time="1358625012"><p>

The subway's track connections are for the purpose of delivering new equipment and supplies. they are not part of an active, revenue generating service over which trains can travel. the MTA is little more than a customer reciving a delivery, no diffrent than spotting box cars next to a warehouse.<br />

<br />

Conversly, the reason why SIRT and PATH are always discussed when FRA requirments are mentioned is that thier services shared tracks with freight trains and other mainline passenger trains respectivly in the past, after the government declared a legal seperation of railroad and rapid transit lines in 1917.</p></blockquote>

 

Ahh, that makes sense. It's not a matter of track connections, it's a matter of shared trackage.

 

(Hence, the triboro RX would likely run into problems as proposed)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Kamen Rider" data-cid="634546" data-time="1358625012"><p>

The subway's track connections are for the purpose of delivering new equipment and supplies. they are not part of an active, revenue generating service over which trains can travel. the MTA is little more than a customer reciving a delivery, no diffrent than spotting box cars next to a warehouse.<br />

<br />

Conversly, the reason why SIRT and PATH are always discussed when FRA requirments are mentioned is that thier services shared tracks with freight trains and other mainline passenger trains respectivly in the past, after the government declared a legal seperation of railroad and rapid transit lines in 1917.</p></blockquote>

 

Ahh, that makes sense. It's not a matter of track connections, it's a matter of shared trackage.

 

(Hence, the triboro RX would likely run into problems as proposed)

err there are ways to bypass that you know they are FRA compliant trains that can be used. hint one of the lines connected can help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a 5 year old I can barely remember when they still had the street level tracks along that original Culver line along McDonald Ave when the abandoned elevated spur from 9th ave still existed before it was demolished. The street level tracks along the docks past 3rd Ave by the industrial complexes still exist I've noticed where the roads were never paved over. (Correct me if I'm wrong, It's been a while since I've been in that part of Brooklyn)

Some of those rails are still used.  Sometimes I'm by the Brooklyn Army Terminal, and a few times a day there's a locomotive on those tracks going in and out of the terminal with freight cars.  Pretty awesome to see

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some of those rails are still used.  Sometimes I'm by the Brooklyn Army Terminal, and a few times a day there's a locomotive on those tracks going in and out of the terminal with freight cars.  Pretty awesome to see
are they random or is there a typical time and day they run? Yah I'd love to see that in person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was there ever an interchange track between the LIRR Port Washington branch and the subway near the Willets Point station?

I wondered that too. Especially in A Div school car, when I was at the Corona yard. They are right next to each other.

If so, it probably would have been a long time ago, back before FRA rules became really strict. (Like when BRT and LIRR would interface).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
are they random or is there a typical time and day they run? Yah I'd love to see that in person.

It's random.  I work in the court system, and they're sending me to the Army Terminal in 2 weeks for a few days.  I'll try to get a video of it

Edited by 8thAveExpress
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.