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Via Garibaldi 8

Rebuilding South Ferry

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"It could be three years before the South Ferry subway station at the tip of lower Manhattan, heavily damaged in superstorm Sandy, is fully restored to service, Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials now say.

Even before it launches a rebuilding effort estimated to cost $600 million, the MTA must decide whether to move some of the electronic equipment of one of its most vulnerable stations to a higher elevation, to guard against future floods."

 

.NY-CC940_SOUTHF_G_20130117190139.jpg

                                                                                                                                                                    Peter Foley for The Wall Street Journal

 

Wynton Habersham, the MTA's chief electrical officer, points out salt water damage from Sandy at the South Ferry subway station.

 

 

Source - Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324468104578248352448657848.html

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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source link requires online access to wsj :(

 

By the time they rebuilt the station, i think another big storm might come and cause more damage

Ugh... It worked when I was using it.  Let me check again...

---

Here is the full article for those who can't access it from the Wall Street Journal:

 

It could be three years before the South Ferry subway station at the tip of lower Manhattan, heavily damaged in superstorm Sandy, is fully restored to service, Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials now say.

Even before it launches a rebuilding effort estimated to cost $600 million, the MTA must decide whether to move some of the electronic equipment of one of its most vulnerable stations to a higher elevation, to guard against future floods.

 

NY-CC941_SOUTHF_G_20130117190414.jpg

Peter Foley for The Wall Street Journal

 

Damage in the South Ferry subway station as seen Thursday.

 

Thomas Prendergast, the president of the MTA's transit division, told reporters in December that it would likely be at least a year before the bidding and construction on South Ferry could be completed, but the agency now believes it will be substantially longer. Some intermittent subway service could return, however, before the station is fully finished.

South Ferry, which reopened in 2009 after a $545 million renovation and expansion, was inundated by the storm surge from the harbor on the night of the Oct. 29 storm. It filled with 14.5 million gallons of water, a depth of 80 feet from the track bed to the station's mezzanine.

MTA officials say they are hoping to put out contracts for the station's rebuilding sometime later this year. They are expecting the heavy construction work—such as replacing salt-corroded signal systems—to take another one to two years.

The MTA's rebuilding estimate includes $350 million for physical repairs to the station, where workers already have rebuilt a tile wall that was swept loose by flooding; $200 million for replacing signals; and $30 million for third-rail equipment.

 

NY-CC942_SOUTHF_G_20130117194238.jpg

Peter Foley for The Wall Street Journal

 

Wynton Habersham, the MTA's chief electrical officer, below, inspects damage inside the station.

 

The water has been pumped out of South Ferry, but on Thursday afternoon evidence of the flooding was everywhere, as Wynton Habersham, the MTA's chief electrical officer, walked the station's muck-drenched platform. He ducked into a signal-relay room at the end of the platform, which had held about 600 electromechanical relays, switch boards and circuit breakers. Almost all of them were ruined by the corrosive, brackish water that poured in from the harbor.

 

"A simple cleanup wouldn't suffice" to restore the station, which served 14,000 No. 1 train riders per day, including many coming from the Staten Island Ferry, Mr. Habersham said. The MTA will have to replace hundreds of relays and thousands of feet of wiring in the South Ferry complex alone, he said.

 

Before the agency does so, engineers will have to decide if they will try to rebuild the relay rooms on higher ground, where they will be less vulnerable to flooding. That would force the MTA to change the specifications and layout of the equipment it is replacing. "If we decide to just harden that room and make it like a submarine, which is not likely to be the case," said Mr. Habersham, his department could simply replace what has been ruined—but moving the equipment would require more planning.

 

 

NY-CC947_SOUTHF_G_20130117195657.jpg

Peter Foley for The Wall Street Journal

 

The South Ferry Subway Station entrance remains closed Thursday.

 

"If it's relocated to the park upstairs, then we'll do it up there," added Mr. Habersham, in a reference to Battery Park.

South Ferry was destined to be a complicated site for rebuilding. The structural concrete box of the station already sits mostly below the water table; Mr. Habersham compared it to the "bathtub" that forms the foundation of the World Trade Center. Three subway lines cross above the station's roof—the No. 4 and 5 lines and R trains toward Brooklyn, and the loop track of the old No. 1 station, which is now being used to turn No. 1 trains for the trip back uptown.

 

But the difficulties of restoring the hardware of the station also reflect a problem facing the entire subway system: the vastly diminished reliability of the parts of the system that survived. While some equipment subjected to corrosion was quickly refurbished and brought back into service, that equipment is now much more likely to fail—and to fail sooner than it might have without exposure to floodwaters.

 

Since the MTA restored service on the R train from adjoining Whitehall Street through its tunnel into Brooklyn on Dec. 21, equipment in that section of the line has failed at least once a day, including again on Thursday morning, Mr. Habersham said.

 

Corrosion has had effects both visible and hidden. In the relay room at South Ferry, a subcontractor scrubbed clean the steel pins that held the relay boxes in place. Days later, the lichen-colored corrosion spots had returned in force.

"That's why the manufacturers felt you have to just get rid of it," Mr. Habersham said. "There's not much you can do with it once it's been exposed."

 

To cope with breakdowns, the signals division has been forced to staff the Montague Tube, which carries the R train under the East River, 24 hours a day since it reopened.

 

Elsewhere, scores of workers have been reassigned to manually move track switches and realign trains in the yards that were damaged by flooding. In the process, they have been racking up overtime hours and working in dangerous conditions, MTA spokesman Adam Lisberg said.

The MTA estimates it will cost $700 million to repair signals systemwide, the largest single line item in its preliminary $5 billion damage estimate.

 

Write to Ted Mann at ted.mann@wsj.com

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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First they say one year, now three? SMH.

Might as well put Rector Street on the rollsigns then. 

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Looks like Rector Street will be the new terminal... That 4-station line has already suffered 2 losses, Cortlandt Street and now the new South Ferry Station. 

I've been wondering this, but have the headways on the (1) been affected? I know one of the main purposes of the new South Ferry station was to improve headways since the loop takes longer (I believe it was 17 tph before, then when the new station opened it was 21 tph). The thing is, trains are not stopping at the loop, Which I guess means the headways have not been affected, but I'm still not sure about that. 

 

I think the (MTA) has learned a lesson here, next time build a station that is 25 feet away from the ocean and 80 feet below the ground thats actually waterproof. The station wasn't even built to keep water from seeping into the station (One peice of evidence was the grime stains on the walls before the station was destroyed). When rebuilding the station, they should at least move the tower up the line or hook it up to the nearest tower in the area (whatever one that was controlling the loop). That will sure bring the cost down if the station does ever get destroyed again.
 

I recall one user saying that at the entrances of the new SF station and Whitehall Street station, the (MTA) should install watertight doors incase a storm like Sandy does make its way up here again (which it probably will). That would seem like the best idea, the only problem is the entrances would need to be rebuilt.

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There's not really much you can do there except rebuild...the original 1600's shoreline is right on Water St (or whatever that street name is where that M5 bus stop is), so you're pretty much building on landfill. Plus the new station had to be dug deeper to avoid the older Montague and Joralemon tunnel approaches, and the older South Ferry station itself.

 

Just like everything else in the city, all you can do is rebuild.

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This is something I don't understand.

Why a station opened in the end of the 2000's in an area prone to flooding was not water proof ? It is not impossible to protect a station near a river with big waterproof doors at the entrances.

There would maybe be some water entering in the station but at least the station wouldn't be under 80 feet of water.

 

A few million saving will cost nearly a billion. 

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It can be done in faster than three years. This is ridiculous >_> That's too much time and money wasted

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Ya know what JUST USE THE OLD SOUTH FERRY STATION! (1) trains can proceed slowly over the tracks stop at the south ferry station use the loop and restart the service to 242 St. Besides the (4) And (5) still use the loop. Ill talk to the mta about this idea.

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Ya know what JUST USE THE OLD SOUTH FERRY STATION! (1) trains can proceed slowly over the tracks stop at the south ferry station use the loop and restart the service to 242 St. Besides the (4) And (5) still use the loop. Ill talk to the mta about this idea.

 

Theres two issues with that, number one they would need to make it handicapped accessible which means installing an elevator and someone said the platform extenders on that station are gone.

 

Still it seems like less money to bring back the old station and just install and elevator in it, or get some sort of emergency ADA waiver

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Yeah- ADA prevents old south ferry from reopening. 

 

Also train capacity had nothing at all to do with the opening of the new South Ferry. The old station had a substantially higher capacity. 

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This "ADA" shit is driving me insane. Those asses don't care about the general convenience of passengers.

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3 Things

 

1.(1) Trains Can Continue To The Old Station if only the first 4 Cars Only open their doors because the gap isnt really big.

2.It shouldn't be Handicap Accessible  No wheelchair can fit over that gap.

3. It has been closed since 2009. The New station will take 3 YEARS  for it to finish. Its better to restore service To the Old South Ferry Station And Demolish That Son Of a Brand New South Ferry Station. Or USE the shuttle platform.

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Get the facts right: it can handle 5 cars. ADA applies to new construction/major renovations. If ppl in wc needs elevators, they would use the BG stop on the 4/5.

Please don't bring up the Shuttle crap, the BG (S) platform can only hold 2 cars and the inner loop can only open the middle doors of the train. You'd be better off just sticking with the outer loop, not to mention the 5 uses the inner loop to turn back.

Edited by Grand Concourse
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Ya know what JUST USE THE OLD SOUTH FERRY STATION! (1) trains can proceed slowly over the tracks stop at the south ferry station use the loop and restart the service to 242 St. Besides the (4) And (5) still use the loop. Ill talk to the mta about this idea.

This is exactly what I would now be ordering if I were Cuomo.  It's obvious at this point re-opening the current (1) station won't happen at all in 2013 and very likely 2014 or even '15.  Given this, re-opening the old (1) station at SF and returning to the way it was done before 2009 may have to happen.

 

Would not be surprised if some elected official pressure the (MTA) to do this soon.  In this particular case, perhaps an ADA waiver could be given because this is a case of putting a station back into service due to a natural disaster knocking out the station it replaced.  I would anyone saying otherwise would have to realize this is a special case, and if necessary, ADA work could be done while the station is open in order to faciltate those demands since the station would likely be open for a minimum of two years under this set of circumstances..

Edited by Wallyhorse

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Aye!



If you could look kindly at my signature you can see that ive created this map  (Or edited) and can see big things that need to be fixed before opening the old station.

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Ya know what JUST USE THE OLD SOUTH FERRY STATION! (1) trains can proceed slowly over the tracks stop at the south ferry station use the loop and restart the service to 242 St. Besides the (4) And (5) still use the loop. Ill talk to the mta about this idea.

 

Wow, that track chart is TOTALLY wrong for the interlocking going into South Ferry Terminal.

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Wow, that track chart is TOTALLY wrong for the interlocking going into South Ferry Terminal.

I haven't been there, but don't the tracks cross at grade?

 

EDITED for grammar.

Edited by CenSin

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It's not gonna take three years. It's gonna be way less than that. We've seen it already with the Chambers Street fire and 9/11 repairs. Always completed 2x quicker than first estimated.

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Some people wanna' see the old loop reopen just so they can foam the crap outta' it with there camera's and so on. 

I give it till Jan 2014 Max to fix up that station, the way the new south ferry station is in the pictures currently I ain't seeing much damage that will cause it to need a 2015 or 2016 reopening.

Like LTA1992 Said, The Chambers fire  was fixed up/completed in less time then expected. 

The only way I see south ferry reopening in 2015 is if they are gonna' pull a smith-9th Street stunt (may I call it that lol)

but still highly unlikely. 

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Yes, they cross at grade, go south then under. Also, I believe such maps are copyrighted, and I somewhat doubt that permission has been granted here...

 

Another point worthy of mention- The old south ferry platform is 7 cars long. It only has gap fillers for the middle 5 cars however. 

Edited by Art Vandelay
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