New Jersey Transit - Random Thoughts Thread

[SevenEleven]

The first 3 buses were pilot buses built in 2016. One bus from every order goes to Ferry Street for the sole purpose of being a training bus. 

[Lawrence St]

10 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

The first 3 buses were pilot buses built in 2016. One bus from every order goes to Ferry Street for the sole purpose of being a training bus. 

That's...weird to say the least.

[553 Bridgeton]

11 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Why are there only three 16xxx cruisers? And why is one just a training bus?

16001 is a demo for the 17000 series

16002 is a servicemen/mechanic training bus. Will never see service. 

16003 is a demo for the 18,19,20,21, and 22 series. More so for the 360 camera system.

17185, 19119-19127 are X12 demos.  

[B35 via Church]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:31 PM, Mtatransit said:

Took the 139 down south to Freehold yesterday. Traffic was absolutely horrible, so bad that 2 buses were running 30 minutes late back to back. Feel bad for those people standing between Old Bridge and PABT, especially with that traffic. There is no way it only takes 1 hr and 20 minutes to get from Freehold to PABT. The bus took an hour from Old Bridge to PABT, and that was with the driver flooring it.

Turns out, the Freehold Mall that NJT likes to emphasis on the headsign is not Freehold Raceway Mall but a half abandoned "Freehold Mall with a parking lot and Burlington". At Freehold Mall or elsewhere on Rt 9, everyone was picked up/dropped off by a car waiting.

I walked down US 9 for a bit until I realized it was impossible and took the 67 one stop back to Raceway. Should've gotten off at Freehold Center and walked to the Raceway Mall from there. 

Yeah, Freehold Mall is a drab shopping plaza that's used as a park & ride for commuters; the #136 goes express straight to/from it... What I used to do when I used to fan the #136 heavy (enough) was take it to the first stop (in front on the bank) & walk from there to the Burger King... Afterwards, I would then walk back over to Freehold Mall & catch the next #139 back to NYC.... Although there's a NYC bound stop closer to the Burger King (across the street), IMO you'd have to be a fool to wait there at night; it's pitch black & I have seen one poor guy get flagged waiting there... That was the main reason I would walk back to Freehold Mall stop... Here's what I'm talking about... You can rotate the map & see the nothingness on that side of the road.... That said, I've done that walk from Freehold Raceway Mall to Freehold Mall a couple times (to catch the #139), because the #67's so infrequent... It's an easier walk if you're on the western side of rt. 9 (as in, across the street from Freehold Mall), but you do gotta walk up an incline in that wet grass to get up to Main st... The SB #139 goes down that same incline I'm referring to....

You don't necessarily have to get off at Freehold Ctr. to do that walk, unless that specific #139 trip is a Freehold Center/Mall one.... If it's a Freehold Center trip that bypasses Freehold Mall, you can get off at that first stop after it turns off Main st. in front of that Church... It'll save you a good 10 mins. or so... I had to get off that stop one time & walk back to Freehold Ctr. b/c I dozed off... At least the b/o was nice/understanding about it.... I still had enough time to catch the #836 I needed, so everything still worked out alright...

* side note: I already did this for @checkmatechamp13 in differentiating b/w #76 & #66 variants, but what I think I'm going to start doing is mapping out all the variants of routes that have variants (for information purposes)... The Doug & Adrienne maps are shit at differentiating them & the NJT MyBusNow maps aren't much better... There's rideschedules.com, but their "route map" is rather misleading (they depict all the stops along a route & call it a route map) & the site overall is very user unfriendly.... Shame that its ease-of-use isn't up to par, because it's a pretty good resource otherwise...

On 10/18/2021 at 7:31 PM, Mtatransit said:

I think alot of that has to do with the commuter traffic between NNJ-CNJ. Without NJT service on Rt 9 to NYC, service to NNJ from CNJ is comparable with the ones from SNJ-CNJ (maybe even worse). Due to this commuter traffic, NJT runs pretty frequent service on Rt 9 to NYC. Much more frequent than anywhere else in CNJ, or even SNJ (It almost looks like NJT barely even want to serve Philadelphia at all (comparable to NJT telling NYC commuters to take PATH to Newark for bus service).

Most of the commuter traffic from Philadelphia/Camden seems to only extend as far as the last stop on the PATCO. 

That being said, what do you think about extending the 139 into Toms River and cutting the 559 to Toms River as well? If we can find a way to create a "pulse" at Toms River between 319, 559, 139 and 67, I think that should serve everyone's need perfectly

- With that snippet, I wasn't referring to anyone trying to get to NYC; the demand for NYC is quite obvious.... I was referring to CNJ patrons generally seeking more areas north of that region of the state, compared to that of areas south of it... The current lack of service b/w the 2 regions of the state (CNJ & NNJ) is what I thought we were speaking to..... In other words, NJT could stand to, or at least look into more intrastate routes connecting NNJ to CNJ... Maybe I should have said it that way in my last post...

- In NewBus' redesign of Camden/Burlington/Gloucester counties, I have almost zero doubt that more cuts to/from Philly are coming; continuing the trend they continued in 2011....

- To your question there, the problem I have with centralizing Toms River P&R when it comes to bus service is that the P&R itself is too isolated from the rest of Toms River.... OceanRide doesn't resemble anything that remotely qualify as a viable commuting option..... Anyway, the people's needs it would basically suit are park & riders.... I can't fathom anyone P&R-ing at Toms River for service on an (extended) #139 for anywhere along the route on up to Old Bridge (meaning, within NJ)... Otherwise, those same people P&R-ing at Toms River would simply take the #137x or the #319 to NYC.... So I'd leave the #139 ending at Lakewood...

On the #67, I'd say most people are off the bus at Freehold (Center) up from Newark... Those that aren't off at Freehold, do tend to ride past Lakewood.... However, an interesting commonality of the #559 & the #67 is that they're both respectively used noticeably locally b/w Lakewood & Toms River... Being that the #67 in general runs like pure garbage/could use the ridership overall, I'd leave the #67 at Toms River P&R.... The #559 OTOH I would have serving Toms River east of rt. 9 in general. instead of along rt. 9 itself on up to Lakewood - either somewhere along/around rt. 37, (not sure how far down it should go, since traffic is nightmarish on it...) or paralleling the #67 from the P&R on up to Ocean County Mall for a bit more service on that part of the #67...

That leaves the portion of the #559 b/w Lakewood & Toms River... While I'd personally like to have that part of the #559 as a standalone local, I don't see there being enough ridership to justify its existence... So if the #317 were to end up being split to end at Lakewood from the west, I'd take the Lakewood - Asbury portion of it & combine it with the #559 portion b/w Lakewood & Toms River... So, an Asbury - Toms River route... That part of the #317 is around an hour & that part of the #559 is about 1/2 hour.... It can remain a full service line.

Where I generally agree with the premise of the question is that, Lakewood isn't a prime destination like that at all... Toms River is way more of a destination than Lakewood is.

On 10/18/2021 at 7:31 PM, Mtatransit said:

Apparently Academy and Coach USA still makes a decent profit (pre-pandemic) on these commuter routes. With them there, I don't see NJT coming in and improving service on them. Its a shame because some corridors do have potential for off peak/reverse peak service. 

Then there is also this peak Academy bus on weekdays to Wall Street on Rt 9 which I think NJT used to run until that was cut in 2010.

That's my point - they have no incentive (the way they likely see it) to improve service & the network overall about the area, since the quote-unquote competition already has it (half-ass) covered....

On 10/18/2021 at 7:31 PM, Mtatransit said:

Even these routes are designed to carry commuters from points along Rt 9 into Jersey City/Weehawken/Hoboken/Newark. 

I know.

I was going to say that I believe CNJ can benefit from full-service lines that aren't wholly or majorically NYC commuter routes (and I still do) - but now that I think about it, one (well, another) reason that CNJ's network is such crap is because it may be induced by the very townspeople that these public buses are supposed to serve.... You will have people that claim they want more service on "their" route - but at the same time, pull any excuse out of their ass as to why they don't want more buses on, or even NEAR "their" streets.... NJT uses that dichotomy to their advantage IMO....

Edited October 24, 2021 by B35 via Church

[checkmatechamp13]

@B35 via Church If the eastern split of the #317 were to run down to Toms River, would you run that resultant split on hourly headways, or keep it on the #317's bihourly headways?

Also, which routes do you expect would be truncated to Camden? Do you think they would just leave the #401/402/408/410/412 (and the Cape May routes, which aren't listed as being within the scope of the study) running to Philly and truncate everything else? (BTW, as far as you remember, which routes have been cut back from Philly to Camden over the past 20 or so years? I know the #403 was cut back (in 2011 I believe), and I think the #405 and #407 used to run to Philly. Anything else I'm missing?

[JAzumah]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

- With that snippet, I wasn't referring to anyone trying to get to NYC; the demand for NYC is quite obvious.... I was referring to CNJ patrons generally seeking more areas north of that region of the state, compared to that of areas south of it... The current lack of service b/w the 2 regions of the state (CNJ & NNJ) is what I thought we were speaking to..... In other words, NJT could stand to, or at least look into more intrastate routes connecting NNJ to CNJ... Maybe I should have said it that way in my last post...

Newark Penn Station and Secaucus Junction are very good locations for fast interregional buses. I am looking at a WRTC-Newark Penn Station-NYC express service. It has been on my mind for three years now. In theory, a bi-hourly NJT bus in such a corridor would do extremely well. You could tie together the Newark and Camden bus networks this way and create a whole new matrix of trips.

[B35 via Church]

52 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@B35 via Church If the eastern split of the #317 were to run down to Toms River, would you run that resultant split on hourly headways, or keep it on the #317's bihourly headways?

I'd have the whole route operating on hourly headways... Overnight service would run b/w Lakewood & Toms River only.... Unlike with the current overnight #139/559 at Lakewood, some sort of a timed connection would be had (or at least attempted) at Toms River P&R b/w the #559 & that extended eastern split of the #317....

52 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Also, which routes do you expect would be truncated to Camden? Do you think they would just leave the #401/402/408/410/412 (and the Cape May routes, which aren't listed as being within the scope of the study) running to Philly and truncate everything else? (BTW, as far as you remember, which routes have been cut back from Philly to Camden over the past 20 or so years? I know the #403 was cut back (in 2011 I believe), and I think the #405 and #407 used to run to Philly. Anything else I'm missing?

• Current WRTC terminating routes: 403, 413, 405, 407, 418, 419, 450, 451
• Current routes running to Philly: 400, 401, 402, 404, 406, 408, 409, 410, 412, 414, 417, 313/15, 317, 551, 555

Think that's everything... As for which routes I expect to be truncated to Camden in this redesign, it's easier for me to opine which ones would be left... I say it like that because I honestly think they're going to try their hands at a quote-unquote frequent Camden-Philly circulator as a means to justify cutting back whatever routes they'd leave intact (or close enough to being left intact) that serves Camden otherwise.... I say that like that because I think some of these routes are going to get cut outright, broken up, or phased out somehow in some type of funky fashion.... The only existing route I see them proposing being left to operate in Philly is the #551... The circulator would make all the current stops along Market & along Vine, etc., and the #551 would be the Greyhound Terminal & the 30th st. only bus (so to speak)...

Of the routes that's been cut back to WRTC, yeah, it's the #403, 405, 407, 413, and 419.

 

[553 Bridgeton]

Here’s me in 16001 and 17070. Credit to Murphy Productions for filming me.

 

 

[NBTA]

Took an XD60 for the first time in a while, and boy those buses are broken in. Took one on the 159 to be exact.

[GojiMet86]

Has anyone ever come across this map before?

https://hudsontma.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/HTMA_Map2018_R2_Revised.pdf

This map of Hudson County has maps from the NJT timetables and has its own custom transit map.

[FlxMtroD]

On 10/24/2021 at 12:39 PM, 553 Bridgeton said:

16001 is a demo for the 17000 series

16002 is a servicemen/mechanic training bus. Will never see service. 

16003 is a demo for the 18,19,20,21, and 22 series. More so for the 360 camera system.

17185, 19119-19127 are X12 demos.  

Don't forget 19104 is a X12 demo as well🤙🏾

[Mtatransit]

On 10/24/2021 at 4:01 PM, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, Freehold Mall is a drab shopping plaza that's used as a park & ride for commuters; the #136 goes express straight to/from it... What I used to do when I used to fan the #136 heavy (enough) was take it to the first stop (in front on the bank) & walk from there to the Burger King... Afterwards, I would then walk back over to Freehold Mall & catch the next #139 back to NYC.... Although there's a NYC bound stop closer to the Burger King (across the street), IMO you'd have to be a fool to wait there at night; it's pitch black & I have seen one poor guy get flagged waiting there... That was the main reason I would walk back to Freehold Mall stop... Here's what I'm talking about... You can rotate the map & see the nothingness on that side of the road.... That said, I've done that walk from Freehold Raceway Mall to Freehold Mall a couple times (to catch the #139), because the #67's so infrequent... It's an easier walk if you're on the western side of rt. 9 (as in, across the street from Freehold Mall), but you do gotta walk up an incline in that wet grass to get up to Main st... The SB #139 goes down that same incline I'm referring to....

You don't necessarily have to get off at Freehold Ctr. to do that walk, unless that specific #139 trip is a Freehold Center/Mall one.... If it's a Freehold Center trip that bypasses Freehold Mall, you can get off at that first stop after it turns off Main st. in front of that Church... It'll save you a good 10 mins. or so... I had to get off that stop one time & walk back to Freehold Ctr. b/c I dozed off... At least the b/o was nice/understanding about it.... I still had enough time to catch the #836 I needed, so everything still worked out alright...

The original plan was to take the one that skips Freehold Center and walk from US Rt 9, but unfortunately that one never showed up. The next one was a combine Freehold Center/Mall service. I pressed stop request after Freehold Center thinking it would get closer to Racetrack or stop on Rt 9, but no it just kept going until "Freehold Mall" and I was like, this is the mall NJT likes to emphasis?

On 10/24/2021 at 4:01 PM, B35 via Church said:

With that snippet, I wasn't referring to anyone trying to get to NYC; the demand for NYC is quite obvious.... I was referring to CNJ patrons generally seeking more areas north of that region of the state, compared to that of areas south of it... The current lack of service b/w the 2 regions of the state (CNJ & NNJ) is what I thought we were speaking to..... In other words, NJT could stand to, or at least look into more intrastate routes connecting NNJ to CNJ... Maybe I should have said it that way in my last post...

My mistake, there absolutely is demand between Central NJ to NNJ. right now, the only way to get between these two points is by rail (assuming it doesn't run express) or the 817. The network in CNJ is way too NYC (or even Newark) focused. Nothing between Perth Amboy and Old bridge P + R is ridiculous.

For SNJ  I think the demand mostly goes west out to Camden/Philadelphia. The only demand north per say I think is on the 559 north from Atlantic City (now thinking about it, its the only thing and 319 going north from there). Simply too much nothing in between Camden - CNJ and SNJ - CNJ

 

On 10/24/2021 at 4:01 PM, B35 via Church said:

To your question there, the problem I have with centralizing Toms River P&R when it comes to bus service is that the P&R itself is too isolated from the rest of Toms River.... OceanRide doesn't resemble anything that remotely qualify as a viable commuting option..... Anyway, the people's needs it would basically suit are park & riders.... I can't fathom anyone P&R-ing at Toms River for service on an (extended) #139 for anywhere along the route on up to Old Bridge (meaning, within NJ)... Otherwise, those same people P&R-ing at Toms River would simply take the #137x or the #319 to NYC.... So I'd leave the #139 ending at Lakewood...

On the #67, I'd say most people are off the bus at Freehold (Center) up from Newark... Those that aren't off at Freehold, do tend to ride past Lakewood.... However, an interesting commonality of the #559 & the #67 is that they're both respectively used noticeably locally b/w Lakewood & Toms River... Being that the #67 in general runs like pure garbage/could use the ridership overall, I'd leave the #67 at Toms River P&R.... The #559 OTOH I would have serving Toms River east of rt. 9 in general. instead of along rt. 9 itself on up to Lakewood - either somewhere along/around rt. 37, (not sure how far down it should go, since traffic is nightmarish on it...) or paralleling the #67 from the P&R on up to Ocean County Mall for a bit more service on that part of the #67...

Where I generally agree with the premise of the question is that, Lakewood isn't a prime destination like that at all... Toms River is way more of a destination than Lakewood is.

I would argue that alot of the ridership from Lakewood on the 139 is off the bus by Freehold as well. That stop seems to be the point where NYC riders start boarding in masses. There seems to be some demand between US 9 served by the 139 and US 9 served by the 559. By centralizing everything at Toms River, passengers couldtransfer from all directions. For example Pax from Atlantic City can take the 319 and xfer to the 67 or the 139 north, or 559 south. If there can be some sort of pulse operation there, it is even better

You are absolutely correct in that no one will utilize the P + R for intra-NJ location, but that location in my opinion has better transfer options and is a better transfer point than Lakewood is

On 10/25/2021 at 4:20 AM, B35 via Church said:

Think that's everything... As for which routes I expect to be truncated to Camden in this redesign, it's easier for me to opine which ones would be left... I say it like that because I honestly think they're going to try their hands at a quote-unquote frequent Camden-Philly circulator as a means to justify cutting back whatever routes they'd leave intact (or close enough to being left intact) that serves Camden otherwise.... I say that like that because I think some of these routes are going to get cut outright, broken up, or phased out somehow in some type of funky fashion.... The only existing route I see them proposing being left to operate in Philly is the #551... The circulator would make all the current stops along Market & along Vine, etc., and the #551 would be the Greyhound Terminal & the 30th st. only bus (so to speak)...

Of the routes that's been cut back to WRTC, yeah, it's the #403, 405, 407, 413, and 419.

 

Its remarkable how bad the service is east of the Delaware River compared to west of it (SEPTA territory). The routes between Cherry Hill Mall to Camden could've been extremely busy, but NJT runs a hodgepodge amount of routes between these two points

I hope as part of the study, they can increase some the frequencies for some of the routes. 

I personally prefer the cheaper PATCO - NJT combo between Camden - Philadelphia. Its not like NJT trips are coordinated at Camden anyways. That being said PATCO itself runs every 30 minutes these days on weekends as well. The long distances service will most likely continue to cross the Delaware (Cape May, AC, Asbury Park)

If they are not running one seat service from Philadelphia, I don't see any point running it into Philadelphia at all, might as well just give all the riders to PATCO. Its as asinine as running a shuttle between PABT and Newark and forcing everyone to transfer there

Edited November 9, 2021 by Mtatransit

[Mtatransit]

That being said above I always wanted to ride the 139 variants through Englishtown, or Taylors Mills though never had the chance to do so. Wonder how ridership does on those. 

From Google Map there doesn't seem to be much along Old Bridge- Englishtown Rd, so I would imagine most ridership would come from Englishtown 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Mtatransit

[BreeddekalbL]

Im still for splitting the 113 s and N for the purpose of hourly service on both branches the N would become the 110 

Also for the 113 and 114 express variants 

They should add 1 more trip in each direction 

For example on the 113 the last express going into ny leaves at 820 and the 114 leaves Bridgewater at 754

They need one that leaves in the 9 am hour 

And going back to NJ the last expresses leave at 9 pm hour 

113 at 905 and 114 at 9 pm 

Need an express at 10 pm 

Edited November 10, 2021 by BreeddekalbL

[Lawrence St]

Anyone know when the system picks for NJT Bus are?

[Lawrence St]

20801 was on the 107X earlier this week.

[trainfan22]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

20801 was on the 107X earlier this week.

When I rode the 107 out of PABT its bay is at an angle that requires the bus to back up to leave. I assume it was an NY bound run, then went back to Jersey Not in Service...?

 

For those who don't understand what I'm talking about, the 107 bay at PA is similar to the bays at Hempstead transit center. Would be a challenge to send an artic on an NJ bound run there..

 

 

 

[Lawrence St]

15 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

When I rode the 107 out of PABT its bay is at an angle that requires the bus to back up to leave. I assume it was an NY bound run, then went back to Jersey Not in Service...?

 

For those who don't understand what I'm talking about, the 107 bay at PA is similar to the bays at Hempstead transit center. Would be a challenge to send an artic on an NJ bound run there..

 

 

 

Not exactly, sometimes they'll tell people to go to the other gate that's not at an angle.

[553 Bridgeton]

On 11/13/2021 at 5:06 PM, Lawrence St said:

20801 was on the 107X earlier this week.

Hilton has a tripper that does the 107 in and the 126 out. 

[553 Bridgeton]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:21 PM, trainfan22 said:

When I rode the 107 out of PABT its bay is at an angle that requires the bus to back up to leave. I assume it was an NY bound run, then went back to Jersey Not in Service...?

 

For those who don't understand what I'm talking about, the 107 bay at PA is similar to the bays at Hempstead transit center. Would be a challenge to send an artic on an NJ bound run there..

 

 

 

In this situation they use gate 305 which is a gate that can fit the XD60s.

Edited November 15, 2021 by 553 Bridgeton

[jass]

Does anyone know what a "courtesy stop" is?

I went to a bus stop thats marked on Google Maps and the NJT app. There was no bus sign. Luckily, the bus stopped for me, and when I got on, I noticed the screen had the name of the stop on the monitor.

So I emailed NJT to let them know their bus stop sign was missing...

And was told thats intentional, its a "courtesy stop".

 

[Lawrence St]

8 minutes ago, jass said:

Does anyone know what a "courtesy stop" is?

I went to a bus stop thats marked on Google Maps and the NJT app. There was no bus sign. Luckily, the bus stopped for me, and when I got on, I noticed the screen had the name of the stop on the monitor.

So I emailed NJT to let them know their bus stop sign was missing...

And was told thats intentional, its a "courtesy stop".

 

It means it's up to the driver if they want to stop there, depending on if it's a safe location to board or let off passengers.

[553 Bridgeton]

1 hour ago, jass said:

Does anyone know what a "courtesy stop" is?

I went to a bus stop thats marked on Google Maps and the NJT app. There was no bus sign. Luckily, the bus stopped for me, and when I got on, I noticed the screen had the name of the stop on the monitor.

So I emailed NJT to let them know their bus stop sign was missing...

And was told thats intentional, its a "courtesy stop".

 

Any time you want to get off at a non bus stop you must ask the operator and it’s his/her decision to determine if it’s safe, such as a shoulder being available, well lit area, and low trees that he/she could possibly hit; so just be mindful of that and don’t get upset if he/she says no.

 

Stops that show up on the GPS but there is no sign, was determined by the township that buses can stop under operator decision. All bus stops that have a sign any time the bell is rung we must stop and if someone is standing there but at a courtesy stop you must wave the bus down.

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

Any time you want to get off at a non bus stop you must ask the operator and it’s his/her decision to determine if it’s safe, such as a shoulder being available, well lit area, and low trees that he/she could possibly hit; so just be mindful of that and don’t get upset if he/she says no.

 

Stops that show up on the GPS but there is no sign, was determined by the township that buses can stop under operator decision. All bus stops that have a sign any time the bell is rung we must stop and if someone is standing there but at a courtesy stop you must wave the bus down.

This is state wide correct?

[jass]

11 hours ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

Stops that show up on the GPS but there is no sign, was determined by the township that buses can stop under operator decision. All bus stops that have a sign any time the bell is rung we must stop and if someone is standing there but at a courtesy stop you must wave the bus down.

So why not put a sign?

 

This is the stop, the closest one to the Shoprite.

https://goo.gl/maps/XVYhcgxyk5uXCPZY9