Grand Concourse Posted February 1, 2013 Share #1 Posted February 1, 2013 Since lta1992 is going on about this issue in the mta fare paying thread, I'll start this thread for him to continue his need to 'get the word out'. Have fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted February 1, 2013 Share #2 Posted February 1, 2013 This "borrowing" of money is absolutely insane. If the money is not prevalent, you will have to wait until it is to spending. The government needs to learn a little from SimCity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 1, 2013 Share #3 Posted February 1, 2013 Not for nothing but if anyone wants some pringles, some cracker jack, maybe some popcorn even......... call me! Sorry GC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgood6195 Posted February 1, 2013 Share #4 Posted February 1, 2013 Not for nothing but if anyone wants some pringles, some cracker jack, maybe some popcorn even......... call me! Sorry GC. Because you knew that LTA1992, Orion VII 4 Life, Joe and myself were going to come here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 1, 2013 Share #5 Posted February 1, 2013 Yes.... pretty much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 2, 2013 Share #6 Posted February 2, 2013 Wait till Phantom 909, Joe or MVH sees this thread. They'll cause major wreck in this discussion lol. I should PM Phantom just to put him in the know on yet another discussion on economics and politics. He's not been around lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 2, 2013 Share #7 Posted February 2, 2013 Oh and VG8 and the essays on economics, forgot about that. *please don't hurt me I'm kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom909 Posted February 2, 2013 Share #8 Posted February 2, 2013 Wait till Phantom 909, Joe or MVH sees this thread. They'll cause major wreck in this discussion lol. I should PM Phantom just to put him in the know on yet another discussion on economics and politics. He's not been around lately. ive been around, but not replying because trying to talk sense into the drones is like talking to a stick so why bother. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgood6195 Posted February 2, 2013 Share #9 Posted February 2, 2013 ive been around, but not replying because trying to talk sense into the drones is like talking to a stick so why bother. joe You took the words right out of my mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 2, 2013 Share #10 Posted February 2, 2013 ive been around, but not replying because trying to talk sense into the drones is like talking to a stick so why bother. joe LMFAO! I did'nt even PM you yet! Yo where you been bro? Good to see you back for more interesting debates to get an education from. =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted February 2, 2013 Share #11 Posted February 2, 2013 ive been around, but not replying because trying to talk sense into the drones is like talking to a stick so why bother. joe I see you online now and then. I have to say, you did contribute much good content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted February 2, 2013 Share #12 Posted February 2, 2013 ive been around, but not replying because trying to talk sense into the drones is like talking to a stick so why bother. joe Agree completely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted February 2, 2013 Share #13 Posted February 2, 2013 I have no idea how it is makes any sense to hit the debt ceiling and then keep raising it. Look at this graph, does it make any sense: Is this is what America has come to? Why should we honor a nation like this. Look at the Reagan years, look how he started the trend. Then look at George W. Bush's marvels of common sense. This deficit issue cannot be solved by raising the limit; it must be using other measures (cut spending, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom909 Posted February 2, 2013 Share #14 Posted February 2, 2013 I have no idea how it is makes any sense to hit the debt ceiling and then keep raising it. Look at this graph, does it make any sense: Is this is what America has come to? Why should we honor a nation like this. Look at the Reagan years, look how he started the trend. Then look at George W. Bush's marvels of common sense. This deficit issue cannot be solved by raising the limit; it must be using other measures (cut spending, etc.) this post is not meant for the drones since they do not have the ability to understand it, this is meant for the members with a brain stem that can comprehend the issue. there is a difference between the debt and the deficit. the debt is the total accumulated money that the government has spent through the years where money had to be borrowed to pay and needs to pay back in the future, the deficit is the money spent per year compared to the money that is taken in. i love how quill depot mentions reagan`s and bush`s increase in the debt but doesnt mention clinton nor obama. so lets look at some debt history, shall we? the accumulated national debt from george washington to jfk was $308.567 billion dollars lbj took office on 11/22/63 with $308.567 billion in debt, he left office on 1/20/69 with a debt of $362.629 billion. he increased the debt by $54.062 billion he spent 1886 days in office for an average increase of $28.665 million per day nixon took office on 1/20/69 with $362.629 billion in debt, he left office on 8/9/74 with a debt of $481.792 billion he increased the debt by $119.163 billion he spent 2047 days in office for an average increase of $58.213 million per day ford took office on 8/9/74 with $481.792 billion in debt he left office on 1/20/77 with a debt of $653.907 billion he increased the debt by $172.115 billion he spent 895 days in office for an average increase of $192.307 million per day carter took office on 1/20/77 with $653.907 billion in debt he left office on 1/20/81 with a debt of $934.073 billion he increased the debt by $280.166 billion he spent 1461 days in office for an average increase of $191.763 million per day reagan took office on 1/20/81 with $934.073 billion in debt he left office on 1/20/89 with a debt of $2.697957 trillion he increased the debt by $1.763884 trillion, he spent 2922 days in office for an average increase of $603.656 million per day bush 41 took office on 1/20/89 with $2.697957 trillion in debt he left office on 1/20/93 with a debt of $4.188092 trillion he increased the debt by $1.490135 trillion he spent 1461 days in office for an average increase of $1.019941 billion per day clinton took office on 1/20/93 with $4.188092 trillion in debt he let office on 1/20/01 with a debt of $5.772776 trillion he increased the debt by $1.584684 trillion he spent 2922 days in office for an average increase of $542.328 million per day bush 43 took office on 1/20/01 with $5.772776 trillion in debt he left office on 1/20/09 with a debt of $10,626877 trillion he increased the debt by $4.854101 trillion he spent 2922 days in office for an average increase of $1.661225 billion per day obama took office on 1/20/09 with $10.626877 trillion in debt as of today, 2/2/13 the debt is $16.498137 trillion he has increased the debt by $5.871260 trillion he has spent 1474 days in office for an average increase of $3.983215 billion per day if obama continues on this track when he leaves office on 1/20/17 the debt will be $22.265831 trillion an increase of $11.638954 trillion more than the accumulated debt of every president from george washington to george w bush. thats all you need to know joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgood6195 Posted February 2, 2013 Share #15 Posted February 2, 2013 I have no idea how it is makes any sense to hit the debt ceiling and then keep raising it. Look at this graph, does it make any sense: Is this is what America has come to? Why should we honor a nation like this. Look at the Reagan years, look how he started the trend. Then look at George W. Bush's marvels of common sense. This deficit issue cannot be solved by raising the limit; it must be using other measures (cut spending, etc.) And now adding all the new wars Obama is launching, the constant borrowing and all the printing will eventually lead this bubble to burst. This entire economy is debt based. Why do you think that China and Russia is now phasing out the dallor and doing business with each other now? That and the lowering of our AAA ratings is going to come to a head sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted February 2, 2013 Share #16 Posted February 2, 2013 I have no idea how it is makes any sense to hit the debt ceiling and then keep raising it. Look at this graph, does it make any sense: Is this is what America has come to? Why should we honor a nation like this. Look at the Reagan years, look how he started the trend. Then look at George W. Bush's marvels of common sense. This deficit issue cannot be solved by raising the limit; it must be using other measures (cut spending, etc.) Notice in the graph that Clinton's presidency is the only time period where the exponential curve is broken. It resumes with the presidency of Bush. Obama takes that scary growth rate and blows it up even further… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted February 3, 2013 Share #17 Posted February 3, 2013 Notice in the graph that Clinton's presidency is the only time period where the exponential curve is broken. It resumes with the presidency of Bush. Obama takes that scary growth rate and blows it up even further… Thanks for pointing that oout. From 1996-2000 there was still some hope for lowering the deficit and reaching stability. Continuing onward, you can watch our country go down the shitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 3, 2013 Share #18 Posted February 3, 2013 Notice in the graph that Clinton's presidency is the only time period where the exponential curve is broken. It resumes with the presidency of Bush. Obama takes that scary growth rate and blows it up even further… Thanks for pointing that oout. From 1996-2000 there was still some hope for lowering the deficit and reaching stability. Continuing onward, you can watch our country go down the shitter. Good points. I think how Bill Clinton did it was by increasing the marginal tax rates while avoiding cutting taxes on the wealthy, by cutting military spending through what is defined as a "peace dividend' and by cuts in welfare spending through reforms therefore creating an economic boom and a reduction in national debt with surplus to boot by the time Bush assumed office. The country was going through a stride in technological advancement as well contributing to the burst of productivity in the US economy at the same time I believe that also was a prominent factor in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom909 Posted February 3, 2013 Share #19 Posted February 3, 2013 Good points. I think how Bill Clinton did it was by increasing the marginal tax rates while avoiding cutting taxes on the wealthy, by cutting military spending through what is defined as a "peace dividend' and by cuts in welfare spending through reforms therefore creating an economic boom and a reduction in national debt with surplus to boot by the time Bush assumed office. The country was going through a stride in technological advancement as well contributing to the burst of productivity in the US economy at the same time I believe that also was a prominent factor in this. the economy in the 2nd term of clinton`s presidency was built on the dot com bubble which burst in late 2000 which caused the recession that bush inherited, it also was dependent on congress cutting the spending so we had a $200 billion dollar surplus in the budget, but we still were over $5 trillion in debt. the last fiscal year under clinton, revenue to the government was about $2 trillion that year and federal government spending was about $1.8 trillion. this fiscal year even with obama`s tax hike on the rich the government will get about $2.6 trillion in revenue but they are still spending about $3.7 trillion so another $1,1 trillion more that gets added to the debt. there is no way of taxing our way out of this, the only way is to cut spending joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 3, 2013 Share #20 Posted February 3, 2013 the economy in the 2nd term of clinton`s presidency was built on the dot com bubble which burst in late 2000 which caused the recession that bush inherited, it also was dependent on congress cutting the spending so we had a $200 billion dollar surplus in the budget, but we still were over $5 trillion in debt. the last fiscal year under clinton, revenue to the government was about $2 trillion that year and federal government spending was about $1.8 trillion. this fiscal year even with obama`s tax hike on the rich the government will get about $2.6 trillion in revenue but they are still spending about $3.7 trillion so another $1,1 trillion more that gets added to the debt. there is no way of taxing our way out of this, the only way is to cut spending joe That's right! Thanks for reminding me. The dot.com boom then the subsequent crash. That was indeed a definite factor right there that contributed to the subsequent ressesion as Bush stepped into the White House. From musing on the figures given, I can see your point on why the only way to bail out of the current 1.1 trillion dollar deficit is to cut spending, something that Obama is apparently relucant to do according to recent comments in a public adresses given as early as today (2/2013), instead calling on a "balanced spending plan", whatever that means..... he even stated that across the board spending cuts would actually harm our economy, slow down economic recovery and affect job growth. Huh? I don't understand the reasoning behind what he is saying there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted February 3, 2013 Share #21 Posted February 3, 2013 In short words: This country is f**ked. Obama is apparently relucant to do according to recent comments in a public adresses given as early as today (2/2013), instead calling on a "balanced spending plan" Yep, we're going to be balance spent into what could be a new Great Depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgood6195 Posted February 3, 2013 Share #22 Posted February 3, 2013 In short words: This country is f**ked.Yep, we're going to be balance spent into what could be a new Great Depression. Oh, you have no idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted February 3, 2013 Share #23 Posted February 3, 2013 Oh, you have no idea!No, I think I have an idea. I just hope those idiots down in D.C. don't try this stunt: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted February 3, 2013 Share #24 Posted February 3, 2013 No, I think I have an idea. I just hope those idiots down in D.C. don't try this stunt: Those idiots in Zimbabwe made the same mistakes 4 times. I don't know how they could not get the hint from their previous failures… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted February 3, 2013 Share #25 Posted February 3, 2013 I used the wrong banknote. THIS is the one that I meant to use: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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