Far West Side Could Get New Bus Line by Year's End

[GojiMet86]

What about 20 minutes?

[Metro CSW]

What about 20 minutes?

Now that's not bad for a new route.

[GojiMet86]

Funny because everyone is saying either 15 minutes or 30 minutes, but not 20 minutes.

[Culver]

If you want to see my M12, it's here: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004d3aa46759c60e6a63&msa=0

 

All the TA did is cut it off @ 57th Street... 

 

And I agree, the scheduling is too weak, it should be at least 15 minutes @ rush and maybe 30 minutes off-peak.

72 St really would be a better terminal to connect it to the subway at least.

[BreeddekalbL]

Didn't say anything about the video....... But okay.....

 

1:42 seconds into the animation

[Gorgor]

30 minute headways in Manhattan is ridiculous.  I'll be surprised if this bus actually gets any riders.  The area it runs through is so congested that traffic will render the schedule useless and then buses will be running empty.  It's supposed to serve an area far away from the subway, but with buses so far between it would still be faster to walk to the subway than wait for a bus that may take forever to show up.  During the day, I would never rely on a bus that runs every 10+ minutes.

 

And running it only down to Spring Street?  The route would do so much better if they at least extended it a mile down to the World Financial Center to connect with other buses and to serve area not near the subway, in addition to the many schools in the immediate area.

[Threxx]

30 minute headways in Manhattan is ridiculous.  I'll be surprised if this bus actually gets any riders.  The area it runs through is so congested that traffic will render the schedule useless and then buses will be running empty.  It's supposed to serve an area far away from the subway, but with buses so far between it would still be faster to walk to the subway than wait for a bus that may take forever to show up.  During the day, I would never rely on a bus that runs every 10+ minutes.

 

And running it only down to Spring Street?  The route would do so much better if they at least extended it a mile down to the World Financial Center to connect with other buses and to serve area not near the subway, in addition to the many schools in the immediate area.

 

This.

 

The is essentialy setting themselves up for failure with these new routes. This route has the potential to be a working, well used route, if they actually do it correctly.

 

I propose this routing, with the WFC extension: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004d3aa46759c60e6a63&msa=0

 

By connecting it to well congested areas in 3 places (WFC, Abingdon Square, 72nd Street/Broadway), you provide ridership centers for the route as well as a reason for people to use it.

 

Secondly, headways. The route, in this form, should be every 7-9 minutes at rush, and every 15 minutes off peak and on weekends. Maybe dedicated bus lanes along 12th Avenue north of 14th Street. In this case, I wouldn't have buses making stops on West Street between Canal and Chambers.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

30 minute headways in Manhattan is ridiculous.  I'll be surprised if this bus actually gets any riders.  The area it runs through is so congested that traffic will render the schedule useless and then buses will be running empty.  It's supposed to serve an area far away from the subway, but with buses so far between it would still be faster to walk to the subway than wait for a bus that may take forever to show up.  During the day, I would never rely on a bus that runs every 10+ minutes.

 

And running it only down to Spring Street?  The route would do so much better if they at least extended it a mile down to the World Financial Center to connect with other buses and to serve area not near the subway, in addition to the many schools in the immediate area.

Oh please... While I agree that 30 minute headways isn't great the M50 runs on 30 min headways and I use it and it's just fine.  Let's not go crazy giving Battery Park City tons of service.  I realize the area is getting more residential but still.  You could run the risk of that bus running further down for nothing if it isn't used.  I say try it out first and make adjustments as needed.  You're one of those spoiled Manhattanites that can't wait for anything.  

 

This.

 

The is essentialy setting themselves up for failure with these new routes. This route has the potential to be a working, well used route, if they actually do it correctly.

 

I propose this routing, with the WFC extension: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004d3aa46759c60e6a63&msa=0

 

By connecting it to well congested areas in 3 places (WFC, Abingdon Square, 72nd Street/Broadway), you provide ridership centers for the route as well as a reason for people to use it.

 

Secondly, headways. The route, in this form, should be every 7-9 minutes at rush, and every 15 minutes off peak and on weekends. Maybe dedicated bus lanes along 12th Avenue north of 14th Street. In this case, I wouldn't have buses making stops on West Street between Canal and Chambers.

Yeah well they're doing what they can with the limited funds they have.  They still aren't out of the financial mess that they're in yet so keep that in mind.  

[Threxx]

Oh please... While I agree that 30 minute headways isn't great the M50 runs on 30 min headways and I use it and it's just fine.  Let's not go crazy giving Battery Park City tons of service.  I realize the area is getting more residential but still.  You could run the risk of that bus running further down for nothing if it isn't used.  I say try it out first and make adjustments as needed.  You're one of those spoiled Manhattanites that can't wait for anything.  

 

The will try it out and say it failed, because it wasn't set up in a way that is appealing. No one will use it in the first place, so they'd just cut it...

 

And if they had limited funds, they wouldn't be making the route in the first place.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The will try it out and say it failed, because it wasn't set up in a way that is appealing. No one will use it in the first place, so they'd just cut it...

 

And if they had limited funds, they wouldn't be making the route in the first place.

lol... They only got helped out with about $50 million dollars from funds that NYS allowed them to keep instead of paying which allowed for some service "improvements/restoratons"... Not a whole bunch of money... Plus they did better with other revenues that they rely on than planned so yeah they're not doing as poorly as they were in the past but still not that great.

[Culver]

This.

 

The is essentialy setting themselves up for failure with these new routes. This route has the potential to be a working, well used route, if they actually do it correctly.

 

I propose this routing, with the WFC extension: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004d3aa46759c60e6a63&msa=0

 

By connecting it to well congested areas in 3 places (WFC, Abingdon Square, 72nd Street/Broadway), you provide ridership centers for the route as well as a reason for people to use it.

 

Secondly, headways. The route, in this form, should be every 7-9 minutes at rush, and every 15 minutes off peak and on weekends. Maybe dedicated bus lanes along 12th Avenue north of 14th Street. In this case, I wouldn't have buses making stops on West Street between Canal and Chambers.

This is a much better idea than what the MTA proposes.

 

lol... They only got helped out with about $50 million dollars from funds that NYS allowed them to keep instead of paying which allowed for some service "improvements/restoratons"... Not a whole bunch of money... Plus they did better with other revenues that they rely on than planned so yeah they're not doing as poorly as they were in the past but still not that great.

Now if the State could return all those millions it took from the MTA over the past decade for "emergency funds," we might some see some real service improvements.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is a much better idea than what the MTA proposes.

 

 

Now if the State could return all those millions it took from the MTA over the past decade for "emergency funds," we might some see some real service improvements.

Well again who is to say that they have enough money to run the route that far?? I mean I'd prefer to have the M50 running to the UN but it was scaled back to allow to run on 30 minute headways on weekends... Better than no bus at all... That's my point.. I also don't see that much usage over there anyway.  Maybe they would better off beefing up the M11, which I've used here and there...

[qjtransitmaster]

I'd drop the M57 and have M12 go via west end ave to 72nd. Let M20 run like that this M12 line would need more service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'd drop the M57 and have M12 go via west end ave to 72nd. Let M20 run like that this M12 line would need more service.

Bad idea... The M57 needs a turn around point anyway, plus there are tons of bars to go to over there so the M57 is fine with the current terminus.  In fact I've used it over there plenty of times coming from bars and such.

[Q43LTD]

Better than sending it to South Ferry

[checkmatechamp13]

Secondly, headways. The route, in this form, should be every 7-9 minutes at rush, and every 15 minutes off peak and on weekends. Maybe dedicated bus lanes along 12th Avenue north of 14th Street. In this case, I wouldn't have buses making stops on West Street between Canal and Chambers.

 

Bus lanes need a certain amount of people using them in order to be justified. I don't think this one bus line will carry enough (even if it were extended to hit more ridership generators) to justify taking a lane away from cars.

[Q43LTD]

I have a feeling the is going to do this with all the new routes

[B35 via Church]

The areas this "M12" would serve, is better served by opting to enhance crosstown services - not having a north-south route serve it....

 

 

I had mine go longer, but in hindsight, probably too long.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202807188220210378870.0004d43a7600745bf8f1b&msa=0&ll=40.77877,-73.981848&spn=0.004899,0.009645

The length I wouldn't worry about...

 

My question/concern would be, how are you gonna get away with dropping passengers off along west st, southbound ?

 

30 minute headways in Manhattan is ridiculous.  I'll be surprised if this bus actually gets any riders.  The area it runs through is so congested that traffic will render the schedule useless and then buses will be running empty.  It's supposed to serve an area far away from the subway, but with buses so far between it would still be faster to walk to the subway than wait for a bus that may take forever to show up......

Someone that gets it.

 

Yeah, 30 minutes for a north-south route in manhattan is absolutely ridiculous... and on the west side, I simply do not see much if any ppl. opting to use this service either (regardless if it's far from a subway).... I work around the M20 in west village & although service isn't the greatest on that route, at least it directly serves major points of interest running along 7th/8th avenues to the north.... Outside of the javits center & chelsea piers, this new route would bring residents in said areas to nowhere in-particular....

 

It may help if they extend the to javits center or w/e (at least the route could get some steady stream of riders that way), but I'm not holding my breath with that.....

 

Oh please... While I agree that 30 minute headways isn't great the M50 runs on 30 min headways and I use it and it's just fine.  Let's not go crazy giving Battery Park City tons of service.  I realize the area is getting more residential but still.  You could run the risk of that bus running further down for nothing if it isn't used.  I say try it out first and make adjustments as needed.

...which is why I would look to improve crosstown services before implementing a north-south route of sorts (this "M12").

Was never fond of a 12th av route anyway..... I'm not sure what adjustments could be made for a route like this....

 

I see this route performing as badly as the Q103 (which also serves a growing residential community & passes by bars & restaurants and all that in long island city, vernon-jackson area, etc).....

----

 

This part has nothin to do with you necessarily, but others that have brought up the issue of high headways & what not, I don't see headways as a problem b/c I don't see much of anyone utilizing such a service regardless.... from the immediate west side, travel due east is the general direction ppl. are seeking.....

 

I have a feeling the is going to do this with all the new routes

Wasting resources.... lol...

 

Well if it is, I don't want to hear how so cash-strapped the MTA is.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

...which is why I would look to improve crosstown services before implementing a north-south route of sorts (this "M12").

Was never fond of a 12th av route anyway..... I'm not sure what adjustments could be made for a route like this....

 

I see this route performing as badly as the Q103 (which also serves a growing residential community & passes by bars & restaurants and all that in long island city, vernon-jackson area, etc).....

----

 

This part has nothin to do with you necessarily, but others that have brought up the issue of high headways & what not, I don't see headways as a problem b/c I don't see much of anyone utilizing such a service regardless.... from the immediate west side, travel due east is the general direction ppl. are seeking.....

 

Well a route like the M50 would be a perfect example of having headways that would simply be far too generous.... I mean I take it on the weekends here and there and I just time it which is what most folks seem to do and I like the fact that isn't packed so the headways don't bother me.  There's not much traffic when I take it usually and it tends to be relatively reliable and if it isn't I can just walk crosstown to where I'm going.

 

With the M12 I don't see how you can make the headways much better when it probably won't see that many passengers anyway and that's the real problem.  You have people on here that constantly b*tch about how much waste the has with some of the service it provides which it has been consistently cutting down to almost nothing but a few routes and now they're being stingy and providing the bare minimum and cutting anything that looks like waste, so this is what you get.  I'm not referring to you, but rather folks like Gorgor and qj who keep b*tching and moaning about how much this route costs to run and that route.  I find it ridiculous that Gorgor of all people has the nerve to complain about frequencies when he complains non-stop about costs for this route and that route.  In short he can't have it both ways... Either he wants them to cut across the board and be fiscally conservative (which is what they're doing) or he wants service across the board.  Like I said before, the routes that he keeps going on and on about are having runs cut where possible either now or will be in the near future as the recent schedules have shown and continue to show.  A perfect example is the BM1 - BM4 runs that have been cut... 30+ runs have been cut between the four routes over the last several schedule updates, so there isn't too much more to cut where ridership is not that high.  This allows them to cut the service without a hearing which is why it is being cut gradually.

[Culver]

The areas this "M12" would serve, is better served by opting to enhance crosstown services - not having a north-south route serve it....

 

 

The length I wouldn't worry about...

 

My question/concern would be, how are you gonna get away with dropping passengers off along west st, southbound ?

Yeah, fail by me there, forgot 11 Ave is one-way for half that route.

[qjtransitmaster]

Well a route like the M50 would be a perfect example of having headways that would simply be far too generous.... I mean I take it on the weekends here and there and I just time it which is what most folks seem to do and I like the fact that isn't packed so the headways don't bother me.  There's not much traffic when I take it usually and it tends to be relatively reliable and if it isn't I can just walk crosstown to where I'm going.

 

With the M12 I don't see how you can make the headways much better when it probably won't see that many passengers anyway and that's the real problem.  You have people on here that constantly b*tch about how much waste the has with some of the service it provides which it has been consistently cutting down to almost nothing but a few routes and now they're being stingy and providing the bare minimum and cutting anything that looks like waste, so this is what you get.  I'm not referring to you, but rather folks like Gorgor and qj who keep b*tching and moaning about how much this route costs to run and that route.  I find it ridiculous that Gorgor of all people has the nerve to complain about frequencies when he complains non-stop about costs for this route and that route.  In short he can't have it both ways... Either he wants them to cut across the board and be fiscally conservative (which is what they're doing) or he wants service across the board.  Like I said before, the routes that he keeps going on and on about are having runs cut where possible either now or will be in the near future as the recent schedules have shown and continue to show.  A perfect example is the BM1 - BM4 runs that have been cut... 30+ runs have been cut between the four routes over the last several schedule updates, so there isn't too much more to cut where ridership is not that high.  This allows them to cut the service without a hearing which is why it is being cut gradually.

 

What you fail to realize is that every route is different and not all routes can be the same or even compared. Each route has different things going for it something you failed to realize you notice I am very selective in which routes I bash cause only a few are actually quite useless. If a line is surrounded by alternatives and is no faster than either of them and not even as frequent then such route is not worth running if it's ridership is low on top of it. This doesn't apply to BMs to an extent Bm1 I admit was unfairly targeted for service cuts while being useful. Yet other less useful outright useless lines like Bxm4 were allowed to continue without being touched. BM lines all had much higher ridership as well and are both subsidized by the city. If it was up to me the BMs would have been largely unscathed except BM2&3 due to alternatives vs say BM1/4/5. The Qm3 and bxm4 would have been gone long ago. MTA isn't choosing based on ridership so the cash strapped argument as B35 said is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!!!!! Cause if MTA was being honest and really killing off waste and had to really make reductions trust me the BMs would still retain most of their 2008 service levels except maybe BM2-4. And other worse performing lines would be gone. You do have a point I do in fact agree with you on the BMs.

The areas this "M12" would serve, is better served by opting to enhance crosstown services - not having a north-south route serve it....

 

 

The length I wouldn't worry about...

 

My question/concern would be, how are you gonna get away with dropping passengers off along west st, southbound ?

 

Someone that gets it.

 

Yeah, 30 minutes for a north-south route in manhattan is absolutely ridiculous... and on the west side, I simply do not see much if any ppl. opting to use this service either (regardless if it's far from a subway).... I work around the M20 in west village & although service isn't the greatest on that route, at least it directly serves major points of interest running along 7th/8th avenues to the north.... Outside of the javits center & chelsea piers, this new route would bring residents in said areas to nowhere in-particular....

 

It may help if they extend the to javits center or w/e (at least the route could get some steady stream of riders that way), but I'm not holding my breath with that.....

 

...which is why I would look to improve crosstown services before implementing a north-south route of sorts (this "M12").

Was never fond of a 12th av route anyway..... I'm not sure what adjustments could be made for a route like this....

 

I see this route performing as badly as the Q103 (which also serves a growing residential community & passes by bars & restaurants and all that in long island city, vernon-jackson area, etc).....

----

 

This part has nothin to do with you necessarily, but others that have brought up the issue of high headways & what not, I don't see headways as a problem b/c I don't see much of anyone utilizing such a service regardless.... from the immediate west side, travel due east is the general direction ppl. are seeking.....

 

Wasting resources.... lol...

 

Well if it is, I don't want to hear how so cash-strapped the MTA is.....

Where do most of those people who go to bars and restaurants along vernon blvd come from? If Q103 went to those places or linked to routes that did it may perform better. I do have an idea for increasing it's ridership BUT I need an answer to that question to see if such a proposal is even feasible. So I don't end up posting it here and getting slammed with negative feedback.

[B35 via Church]

...Where do most of those people who go to bars and restaurants along vernon blvd come from? If Q103 went to those places or linked to routes that did it may perform better. I do have an idea for increasing it's ridership BUT I need an answer to that question to see if such a proposal is even feasible. So I don't end up posting it here and getting slammed with negative feedback.

Not counting locals of the area, it's usually ppl. that drive to those restaurants & bars along vernon blvd.... Those cars you see parked over by vernon/borden aren't all commuters (as it would lead you to believe).... Those restaurant/bar goers either park in that area, or park anywhere around vernon where they could find parking....

 

Of the ones that don't drive though, they come off the .....No one really uses the bus to get to commercial vernon blvd (not even off B62's from greenpoint, etc.).... The ppl. you'll see utilizing the Q103 on the southern portion of the route are ppl going to or coming from manhattan...

 

Basically what I'm saying with that is, aside for access to/from the down there, the Q103 is not used.....

[qjtransitmaster]

Not counting locals of the area, it's usually ppl. that drive to those restaurants & bars along vernon blvd.... Those cars you see parked over by vernon/borden aren't all commuters (as it would lead you to believe).... Those restaurant/bar goers either park in that area, or park anywhere around vernon where they could find parking....

 

Of the ones that don't drive though, they come off the .....No one really uses the bus to get to commercial vernon blvd (not even off B62's from greenpoint, etc.).... The ppl. you'll see utilizing the Q103 on the southern portion of the route are ppl going to or coming from manhattan...

 

Basically what I'm saying with that is, aside for access to/from the down there, the Q103 is not used.....

Ok where do those motorists come from? I no nobody used the bus to get there cause technically there is none that gets you there fast that is.

 

Again Where do those restaurant goers come or enimate from?

 

Not counting current transit users meaning current transit users to the area are excluded for this question's answer to be very useful to me transit use only tells me 10% of the story.

 

 

I also am aware they aren't commuters not looking into that.

[B35 via Church]

Ok where do those motorists come from? I no nobody used the bus to get there cause technically there is none that gets you there fast that is.

 

Again Where do those restaurant goers come or enimate from?

 

Not counting current transit users meaning current transit users to the area are excluded for this question's answer to be very useful to me transit use only tells me 10% of the story.

 

 

I also am aware they aren't commuters not looking into that.

 

Dude, Who the hell knows where the motorists are coming from.....

People drive from all over NYC to get to certain bars & restaurants....

[qjtransitmaster]

Dude, Who the hell knows where the motorists are coming from.....

People drive from all over NYC to get to certain bars & restaurants....

I mean in masses the most?