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BreeddekalbL

Far West Side Could Get New Bus Line by Year's End

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LOL... The M57 is NOT useless, period, esp. since neither the M31 nor the M57 serve the same purpose.  The M31 brings folks from Yorkville (residential area) over the heart of the business district in Midtown.  The M57 meanwhile serves a similar purpose by bringing folks from the Upper West Side to the heart of the business district in Midtown and you can't merge them because the route would become more unreliable, hence why they run like they do.

 

If those are taking the broadway line or M7/M5 to E 57th for any crosstown instead of M57 all the way then it doesn't matter which one. 

Already been over this consolidation of the M31 & M57 idea on these transit forums, and quite frankly it's an idea that makes no sense if you realize the purposes of both routes (as was already mentioned)..... That, and considering the traffic on 57th (and York), you don't want a bus coming from Yorkville being THE sole 57th st crosstown.....

 

M31's being less unreliable upon added service; yeah you'd think that... Not in this case though (that's where that "one size fits all" thinking doesn't fly here)..... Consolidating the two routes + adding service would only result in that many more bunched buses along the way - regardless of running along bus lanes or not....

---

 

 

So outside of figuring out where the new Far West Side would should terminate on the northern end, anyone else got any other comments about the upcoming route ??

OK what about skipping some stops on york ave on some trips due to enhanced service that may become possible.

 

The M31 is so unreliable that some people traveling solely along York Avenue (including me at times) prefer to take a cab than wait for 5+ minutes for a slow bus.  Plus with all the elderly taking forever to get on the bus, with nearly every other one having some sort of conversation with the driver, the line just takes forever.  Combining the M31 and M57 looks good on paper, but if you ride them you'll see that it just won't work.  M31 frequencies need to be increased because traffic on 57th Street can vary and delay the bus, which results in pretty bad bunching.  A bus every 10 minutes outside of rush hour, which can easily become 15-20 minutes from delays, is absurd, which is why you'll pretty much only see old people who have all the time in the world.

what can be done to speed up M31? a LTD? If the frequencies were better? Like every 5 mins at rush. So it's many stops chased all the non elderly people off that bus? Maybe making it a low floor 100% might reduce dwell time. The M20 is also mostly old people as is M104 and anything that copies a subway line.

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To the folks who say extend the M12 to 72nd and Broadway, I still have to disagree with you guys. I've had to deal with the M57 going to and from school each and every day and I can tell you that ridership along the West End Avenue portion of that line is not high during any time of the day. Extending the M12 to 72nd would not be a wise idea because A). You don't have a serious demand for bus service in that area and B). You are not serving one of the big transit hubs in Manhattan (Union Square, Time Square, Grand Central, 34th street, Columbus Circle, etc etc) which will impact rider-ship greatly.

Edited by DanTheTransitMan

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So the M12, huh? Reminds me of the OLD M12 that ran in Lower Manhattan back in the 60s and 70s. I like this route BUT I would increase the run time to about 15-20 mins. Also, I would extend the service to at least 1am (especially during Friday and Saturday nights) because of the clubs in the Lower West Side...or coming from the clubs in Midtown and heading home to the Lower West Side. Either way, this ought to be a good route!

 

More likely to be Quill, since it's closer. But that again, MHV maybe losing routes later this year to Hale, IF reopened..... <_<

 

I do believe it would make LOGICAL sense to have the route come out of MJQ.

 

Not for sure, it's just my opinion based on what the TA had done in the past.

 

The re-opening of MCH has been delayed...yet again. It's suppose to re-open in 2014. Once that depot re-opens, 126th St will be shutting down.

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So the M12, huh? Reminds me of the OLD M12 that ran in Lower Manhattan back in the 60s and 70s. I like this route BUT I would increase the run time to about 15-20 mins. Also, I would extend the service to at least 1am (especially during Friday and Saturday nights) because of the clubs in the Lower West Side...or coming from the clubs in Midtown and heading home to the Lower West Side. Either way, this ought to be a good route!

 

 

I do believe it would make LOGICAL sense to have the route come out of MJQ.

 

 

The re-opening of MCH has been delayed...yet again. It's suppose to re-open in 2014. Once that depot re-opens, 126th St will be shutting down.

 

For good or for a rebuild? For some reason I missed this.

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To the folks who say extend the M12 to 72nd and Broadway, I still have to disagree with you guys. I've had to deal with the M57 going to and from school each and every day and I can tell you that ridership along the West End Avenue portion of that line is not high during any time of the day. Extending the M12 to 72nd would not be a wise idea because A). You don't have a serious demand for bus service in that area and B). You are not serving one of the big transit hubs in Manhattan (Union Square, Time Square, Grand Central, 34th street, Columbus Circle, etc etc) which will impact rider-ship greatly.

from 57th street west end ave ridership is low due to more direct alternatives like the (1) and M7/M5 M20 M104 ect of course you aren't going to ride all the way if you are going to 72nd your going to transfer and speed up your trip. However M12 is different it takes people from WS highway and 11th linking to express trains (2)(3) plus there are no alternatives to reach that line and 72nd quicker so M12 will do better than M57 due to lack of competition. And it would link previously underserved areas or those without will now have a quick link to the broadway express trains while skipping the madhouse that is times square and the slow crosstowns as well and links to M66/M72 quicker as well. And faster connection to riverside drive M5 service.

 

Dude also those wanting 34th street, Times sq,Union sq and columbus circle or grand central from 72nd street subway or 72nd at west end will err just take the subway anyway. M12 links areas not served by subways at all and as a result would do much better than the M57 did on west end maybe not that segment but as a route it could become a perfected winner that would attract all kinds of riders not just old people.

Edited by qjtransitmaster

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OK what about skipping some stops on york ave on some trips due to enhanced service that may become possible.

Let Gorgor tell you how ridiculous skipping stops along York av would be..... and this is the last post I'm gonna waste entertaining this particular idea of yours.

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from 57th street west end ave ridership is low due to more direct alternatives like the (1) and M7/M5 M20 M104 ect of course you aren't going to ride all the way if you are going to 72nd your going to transfer and speed up your trip. However M12 is different it takes people from WS highway and 11th linking to express trains (2)(3) plus there are no alternatives to reach that line and 72nd quicker so M12 will do better than M57 due to lack of competition. And it would link previously underserved areas or those without will now have a quick link to the broadway express trains while skipping the madhouse that is times square and the slow crosstowns as well and links to M66/M72 quicker as well. And faster connection to riverside drive M5 service.

 

Dude also those wanting 34th street, Times sq,Union sq and columbus circle or grand central from 72nd street subway or 72nd at west end will err just take the subway anyway. M12 links areas not served by subways at all and as a result would do much better than the M57 did on west end maybe not that segment but as a route it could become a perfected winner that would attract all kinds of riders not just old people.

 

But at the end of the day which area is more dense, 72nd street and Broadway or Columbus Circle. If you've spent anytime around the area you would know the answer. And how would the M12 do better then the M57 because of as you say lack of competition? There is no competition in that area because there is no demand for increase service. On the other hand the area around Columbus Circle will see demand in the near future because Fordham university is expanding its campus in the area meaning that there will be more people around with more service demands. 

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But at the end of the day which area is more dense, 72nd street and Broadway or Columbus Circle. If you've spent anytime around the area you would know the answer. And how would the M12 do better then the M57 because of as you say lack of competition? There is no competition in that area because there is no demand for increase service. On the other hand the area around Columbus Circle will see demand in the near future because Fordham university is expanding its campus in the area meaning that there will be more people around with more service demands. 

they would use M31/57 for service to columbus circle nuff said. M12 won't be competing with other bus routes that are more direct nor will it compete with subways.

 

Let Gorgor tell you how ridiculous skipping stops along York av would be..... and this is the last post I'm gonna waste entertaining this particular idea of yours.

how else are you gonna speed up service? but you have a point I am not advocating for that I am just sayin what can be done or another yorkville route that is more direct but then again M30 failed.

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For good or for a rebuild? For some reason I missed this.

 

The 126 st depot will be shut down to get rebuilt... The routes will temporarily go to other depots...

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But at the end of the day which area is more dense, 72nd street and Broadway or Columbus Circle. If you've spent anytime around the area you would know the answer. And how would the M12 do better then the M57 because of as you say lack of competition? There is no competition in that area because there is no demand for increase service. On the other hand the area around Columbus Circle will see demand in the near future because Fordham university is expanding its campus in the area meaning that there will be more people around with more service demands. 

 

Honestly, both 72nd/Broadway and Columbus would be good terminals, the point isn't West End Avenue, it's the connection to the subway that matters.

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Honestly, both 72nd/Broadway and Columbus would be good terminals, the point isn't West End Avenue, it's the connection to the subway that matters.

Which is my main goal in creating a new route

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Honestly, both 72nd/Broadway and Columbus would be good terminals, the point isn't West End Avenue, it's the connection to the subway that matters.

 

If you read a word of what I said I would want the M12 to connect to a subway station as well, except that Columbus Circle has more riders daily then 72nd street. That's why I want the M12 to go there. 

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If you read a word of what I said I would want the M12 to connect to a subway station as well, except that Columbus Circle has more riders daily then 72nd street. That's why I want the M12 to go there. 

 

IMO, I don't see one having an advantage over the other, terminating @ columbus would be a PITA...

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IMO, I don't see one having an advantage over the other, terminating @ columbus would be a PITA...

Exactly. Just looked at streets there on Google Maps, and even though in theory a terminal there would be fine, the turn in from the Circle itself to the sidewalk by TW Center cuts across traffic. So you can terminate the bus at the area, but it wouldn't be in the circle itself by TW Center, more likely on Broadway b/w 58 and 57 St or W 59 St corner facing east.

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Exactly. Just looked at streets there on Google Maps, and even though in theory a terminal there would be fine, the turn in from the Circle itself to the sidewalk by TW Center cuts across traffic. So you can terminate the bus at the area, but it wouldn't be in the circle itself by TW Center, more likely on Broadway b/w 58 and 57 St or W 59 St corner facing east.

 

You can't terminate a bus in a busy circle anyways, there's too many cabs and buses stopping there to park anything there.  If the bus is going to go to Columbus Circle then 58th Street by the M10 terminal would be fine.  If the bus needs to stop in the circle, then run it up CPW like the M20 then down Broadway; it would stop in the circle southbound.  I still think that it should go up to 72nd Street/Broadway so that anyone going further up can get a much more direct connection to uptown trains and uptown M5/M7/M11/M104 buses rather than having to deal with horrid traffic on 57th Street and dealing with an extra 15 minutes of commute time.

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You can't terminate a bus in a busy circle anyways, there's too many cabs and buses stopping there to park anything there.  If the bus is going to go to Columbus Circle then 58th Street by the M10 terminal would be fine.  If the bus needs to stop in the circle, then run it up CPW like the M20 then down Broadway; it would stop in the circle southbound.  I still think that it should go up to 72nd Street/Broadway so that anyone going further up can get a much more direct connection to uptown trains and uptown M5/M7/M11/M104 buses rather than having to deal with horrid traffic on 57th Street and dealing with an extra 15 minutes of commute time.

Yep. That's why everybody on this thread, myself included, suggested 72 Street.

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Yep. That's why everybody on this thread, myself included, suggested 72 Street.

I'm just wondering how many buses are going to be sent up to 72nd to either terminate there OR go through there.  Having another bus go to 72nd street would be overkill. The buses already bunch as it is coming up Broadway, coming in packs of 3 or 4 buses at a time, not to mention how bad traffic can be on Broadway.  It would be better to have to end at 72nd street for connectivity purposes, but from a practical point of view I say terminate it at 59th street.  You still have access to tons of subway and bus options there.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I'm just wondering how many buses are going to be sent up to 72nd to either terminate there OR go through there.  Having another bus go to 72nd street would be overkill. The buses already bunch as it is coming up Broadway, coming in packs of 3 or 4 buses at a time, not to mention how bad traffic can be on Broadway.  It would be better to have to end at 72nd street for connectivity purposes, but from a practical point of view I say terminate it at 59th street.  You still have access to tons of subway and bus options there.

Better Idea cut back M57 from 72nd then let this route go to 72nd street. Columbus doesn't give you the (2)(3) which take you across to harlem negative. If they want columbus circle let em use M57/31 or transfer. 72nd has more options. This route will use west end ave. But I agree broadway is overkill.

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Better Idea cut back M57 from 72nd then let this route go to 72nd street. Columbus doesn't give you the (2)(3) which take you across to harlem negative. If they want columbus circle let em use M57/31 or transfer. 72nd has more options. This route will use west end ave. But I agree broadway is overkill.

Uh... NO... The M57 is does the reverse of what the M31 does... Moves folks directly from the Upper West Side to the business district in Midtown... 

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I'm just wondering how many buses are going to be sent up to 72nd to either terminate there OR go through there.  Having another bus go to 72nd street would be overkill. The buses already bunch as it is coming up Broadway, coming in packs of 3 or 4 buses at a time, not to mention how bad traffic can be on Broadway.  It would be better to have to end at 72nd street for connectivity purposes, but from a practical point of view I say terminate it at 59th street.  You still have access to tons of subway and bus options there.

Depends on what street it would use to turn around. It can be done. And like we all said, 59 street would be hell to find a spot to terminate at.

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Depends on what street it would use to turn around. It can be done. And like we all said, 59 street would be hell to find a spot to terminate at.

And so would 72nd, not to mention how backed up in traffic it would get.  Why not just have it terminate at Lincoln Center with the M20??

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And so would 72nd, not to mention how backed up in traffic it would get.  Why not just have it terminate at Lincoln Center with the M20??

Traffic on 72nd Street isn't that bad if its just North of Broadway and looping. The M57 doesn't get tied, when looping. If it does, its not for too long compared to 59th Street.

 

As for 66th Street, you will still need to deal with some traffic, especially from 10th and 11th Avenues, which is where the most headache is at.

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Traffic on 72nd Street isn't that bad if its just North of Broadway and looping. The M57 doesn't get tied, when looping. If it does, its not for too long compared to 59th Street.

 

As for 66th Street, you will still need to deal with some traffic, especially from 10th and 11th Avenues, which is where the most headache is at.

Of course not... They want this bus to go up Broadway to 72nd.... 72nd isn't the headache... Broadway is...

 

As for 66th street, the bus can come across via 57th street and then follow the M20 to the 66th street terminal which wouldn't be bad at all.  After 8th Avenue, 57th isn't that congested most of the day.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Of course not... They want this bus to go up Broadway to 72nd.... 72nd isn't the headache... Broadway is...

 

As for 66th street, the bus can come across via 57th street and then follow the M20 to the 66th street terminal which wouldn't be bad at all.  After 8th Avenue, 57th isn't that congested most of the day.

 

What?  Who suggested that?

 

I want the bus to take West End up, right on 72nd, and terminate like the M57 does.  Going up Broadway to 72nd is just madness and plain stupid.

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