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lupojohn

Dean Street

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I see some of you here are advanced in your knowledge of all things transit. Perhaps you work or worked for the MTA? Nonetheless, i'm curious about this station, as it's(to my knowledge), the only station to be shuttered in my lifetime. Here's what I heard as to why Dean Street was indeed closed on September 10, 1995, with my own viewpoints:

 

People jumped the turnstiles. What made this station so much more prone to people doing this than any other station? Were there not enough token booths with people working there and watching? This seems like a lame excuse to me.

 

The station was decrepit. Unlike my first point, this is probably true. However, I took a ride on the Franklin Street Shuttle recently, and some of those stations don't look all that good to me. Surely, something could have been done to at least touch up the station, if not fix it altogether.

 

It was too close to Franklin Avenue. Well, it was always too close to Franklin Avenue, yet it remained in operation for the longest of times. I see that some stops on certain lines are pretty close, but they aren't shut down. Leaning toward this being an excuse.

 

It was in a certain type of neighborhood. I don't want to stir the pot, but you probably know what i'm talking about. I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

I got all of this info off the original New York Times article. Again, without the same amount of knowledge as some of you here, considering all of these factors, could Dean Street have been saved? I'm leaning toward yes.

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Dean St. was not patronized as much as the other stations, which meant it was maintained less than the other stations on the BMT Franklin Shuttle section. The station's proximity to Franklin Ave. also caused it to close (trains would have to stop more, increasing travel time), and because of all the farebeaters, the station seemed to have a small ridership. These major factors caused Dean St. to close during the renovation of the Franklin Ave. Shuttle.

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To add: Due to the financial problems the MTA were having with it's capital construction program in the 80's, the Dean Street Station fell into serious disrepair that became as a result a serious danger hazard for it's customers. Along with having the highest rate in the system for fare evasion and the lack of ridership (unsure as to why) causing massive losses of fare revenue for that station, the MTA concluded that it was unprofitable and even dangerous for the reasons mentioned to keep the station opened and rebuilt for continued revenue service, which was why they demolished the station during the complete rebuild of the Franklin Ave Shuttle.

 

Go on nycsubway.org and look up the overview of the BMT Brighton Line  (B) , (Q)   for the information om the Franklin Ave Shuttle  (S) - it has a rich history as it was at one time a critical spur of the original Fulton Street Elevated Line before it was demolished after the IND built the Fulton Street Subway which commuters use today.

 

Edit: There's another site that is named Joe's Korner (Not sure if it is still up and running, couldn't find it via google, if you guys can locate the site that would be great!) that once had excellent articles on this subject which expanded my knowledge on this topic on this line which has a long and interesting history behind it, not forgetting to mention, Dean Street.

Edited by realizm

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Last time I was even used the shuttle was when I was on the way to the West Indian Parade with work colleagues.  I was having fun in a drunken stupor dancing my tail off to dancehall and soca, drinking rum and eating heartily. 

 

The line is now in excellent condition, due to community support for it. Originally the MTA wanted to totally demolish the entire line from end to end. Which was a stupid idea. It's a necessary, very important link to get from from point A to point B in very densely populated neighborhoods (Bed-Sty, Crown heights) and it's business districts. (i.e Fulton Street, etc)

 

Fun fact: The line existed since 1899! Now that's something. The railfanning fun to it is that it is a combo of open cut, tunnel and elevated. From a structural perspective I find it very interesting with how engineers in those days designed the line to be eventually built. Even more how the MTA rebuilt it in 1998-1999.

Edited by realizm

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I always thought the Franklin Shuttle was some of the best railfanning you could do in 10 minutes or less. I would sometimes bring friends/family on that line just to see how diverse the NYC subway system can be, and Botanic Garden has always been one of my favorite stations.

 

Dean St was a case of karma. It didn't get maintained because the community kept stealing service from the station, so it got shut down and they got what they deserved.

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Many of the shuttle stops were very deteriorated. Thankfully they were renovated. Look at Park Place, before renovation.

 

img_108589.jpg

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Many of the shuttle stops were very deteriorated. Thankfully they were renovated. Look at Park Place, before renovation.

 

img_108589.jpg

What year was this? 1994? I remember when the MTA had rebuilt these stations in the late 1990s.

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What year was this? 1994? I remember when the MTA had rebuilt these stations in the late 1990s.

 

Definitely before 1999 when the line was reconstructed and after the GOH projects began on the R32's and R38s in 1988 that's for sure. Quill will know the rest on the exact date that pic was taken.

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I always thought the Franklin Shuttle was some of the best railfanning you could do in 10 minutes or less. I would sometimes bring friends/family on that line just to see how diverse the NYC subway system can be, and Botanic Garden has always been one of my favorite stations.

 

I always liked the way it the Botanical Gardens was originally build then rebuilt by the MTA myself. With the red bricks lining the walls with plenty of tunnel lighting into a interestingly build station. It's the infrastructure itself that reveals the type of architectural knowledge back in the late 1890's when it was constructed which I find fascinating in a nostalgic sense. Definitely a piece of history, right there. (Yes I'm a history buff among other things....) 

 

It reminds me of the stretch on the West End Line between 9th Ave and 36th Street and that segment of tunnel which was part of the original West End Surface Railroad before the Dual Contracts plan for the el today was implemented and then built, which I'm assuming you must been assigned to many times as C/R on the (D) runs to 205th St and back.

Edited by realizm

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Definitely before 1999 when the line was reconstructed and after the GOH projects began on the R32's and R38s in 1988 that's for sure. Quill will know the rest on the exact date that pic was taken.

Looks like it's about 1993-1994. The old MTA decals were still on that R32.

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I always liked the way it the Botanical Gardens was originally build then rebuilt by the MTA myself. With the red bricks lining the walls with plenty of tunnel lighting into a interestingly build station. It's the infrastructure itself that reveals the type of architectural knowledge back in the late 1890's when it was constructed which I find fascinating in a nostalgic sense. Definitely a piece of history, right there. (Yes I'm a history buff among other things....) 

 

It reminds me of the stretch on the West End Line between 9th Ave and 36th Street and that segment of tunnel which was part of the original West End Surface Railroad before the Dual Contracts plan for the el today was implemented and then built, which I'm assuming you must been assigned to many times as C/R on the (D) runs to 205th St and back.

 

Botanical Garden Station is hardly recognizable.  Where were those outdoor platforms?

 

Also Franklin Ave too got a huge redesign that made it totally unrecognizable from what it used to be.

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Botanical Garden Station is hardly recognizable.  Where were those outdoor platforms?

 

Also Franklin Ave too got a huge redesign that made it totally unrecognizable from what it used to be.

 

The outdoor section of the platforms were demolished due to safety hazards during the rebuild. They no longer exist.

 

Franklin Ave had a complete rebuild exactly and IMO it looks MUCH better then it did before the project began. Because the original structure as part of the Fulton St Elevated that was that station was on the verge of collapse necessitating a complete rebuild from the bottom up practically. Yeah, the line was really in appallingly bad shape. I think the abandoned section of the Culver El (the shuttle from 9th Ave to Ditmas in Brooklyn) that was demolished earlier in the 80's was actually more structurally sound then the Franklin Ave structure from what I remember as a 5 year old. 

 

In all yes the shuttle line save for Botanical Gardens looks completely different then it is now. Because it looks better. I think that overhaul was one of the finest MTA restoration projects ever done up to this date. 

 

Looks like it's about 1993-1994. The old MTA decals were still on that R32.

 

Good catch, I think your right.

Edited by realizm

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I appreciate all of the feedback. My only question continues to be this: why was Dean Street so vulnerable to fare evasion and/or turnstile jumping? To rephrase, what made Dean Street more vulnerable to this as compared to other stations? Oh, and does anyone have any modern pictures of Dean Street? I only see photos from decades ago.

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I appreciate all of the feedback. My only question continues to be this: why was Dean Street so vulnerable to fare evasion and/or turnstile jumping? To rephrase, what made Dean Street more vulnerable to this as compared to other stations? Oh, and does anyone have any modern pictures of Dean Street? I only see photos from decades ago.

 

It wasn't just Dean street,that whole line was prone to constant vandalism and fare evasion. Actually the MTA considered closing the whole line at one point because the amout of people that were using the line was decreasing. But people in the area protested this so instead the MTA compromised and axed Dean street because of its proximity to Franklin Ave. Fulton street. It should be noted that fare evasion is not a reason to close down a station. Before fare control cameras wear placed in stations fare beating was a real problem system wide.

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Absolutely true. The Franklin Ave line and all it's stations was a mess in general for the reasons you mentioned, exactly that.  Dean street however harbored the worst problems of all the stations along the line according to the research I did on this historical line. Other wise Dan the Transit Man, you hit the mark 100% with that information on the decrepit conditions of the shuttle and the plans to completely demolish the entire line  before the rebuilding began due to the demands of the communities it serves. 

Edited by realizm

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As one of the probably few people here who rode the line prior to rebuild, I will disagree with one of the reasons cited. Yes, dean street was in horrible condition, but at the same time, outside of Botanic Garden, which felt incredibly creepy to say the least, Dean was probably in the best condition of the stations. Park Place was the worst. One could fairly easily have fallen through the platform there on a bad day. What did in Dean Street in my opinion is the fact that it was so close to Franklin avenue. 

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As one of the probably few people here who rode the line prior to rebuild, I will disagree with one of the reasons cited. Yes, dean street was in horrible condition, but at the same time, outside of Botanic Garden, which felt incredibly creepy to say the least, Dean was probably in the best condition of the stations. Park Place was the worst. One could fairly easily have fallen through the platform there on a bad day. What did in Dean Street in my opinion is the fact that it was so close to Franklin avenue. 

 

That may happen to be the case because nycsubway.org says quite the same:

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Station:_Dean_Street_(Franklin_Shuttle)

 

"This station was closed in 1996 partly because of its decrepit condition (although it seemed that the concrete portion of the platforms were in better shape than the plywood platform at Park Place) and partly because of its low fare collection (many riders simply jumped the turnstiles). After the station closed, the stairs to the street were removed along with the fluorescent lights from the platforms. The rest of the structure was removed during the 1998-1999 renovation of the Franklin line. Not much trace remains today."

 
But I don't really see the proximity problem. In the Bronx there are also stations very close together so that shouldn't be the problem.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Vistausss

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As Dan pointed out, the whole line was prone to vandalism, so what changed it for the other stops, but not Dean Street? 

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As one of the probably few people here who rode the line prior to rebuild, I will disagree with one of the reasons cited. Yes, dean street was in horrible condition, but at the same time, outside of Botanic Garden, which felt incredibly creepy to say the least, Dean was probably in the best condition of the stations. Park Place was the worst. One could fairly easily have fallen through the platform there on a bad day. What did in Dean Street in my opinion is the fact that it was so close to Franklin avenue. 

 

As much from the obvious everyone pointed out very accurately, you would know this for sure from firsthand experience riding this line pre-1998/99. This is a very good point to muse over in the overall causes for the demise of Dean Street.

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Is there any evidence that Dean Street used to be on the BMT Franklin shuttle line? I mean any current infrastructure, I haven't passed by there in a long time.

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No, because the bridge over the street is completely new, and the concrete supports are further back, and it's just an empty lot with a truck and cars and other stuff under the bridge, and that's probably where the entrance to the station was. You can see this on Google.

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Is there any evidence that Dean Street used to be on the BMT Franklin shuttle line? I mean any current infrastructure, I haven't passed by there in a long time.

 

You could've looked at the previous page to find your answer.

 

"The rest of the structure was removed during the 1998-1999 renovation of the Franklin line. Not much trace remains today."

 
 
 
 
 

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