Our Mass Transit Future Parts 2 and 3 - What Happened to Democracy?

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't care about your negative reps, don't worry about when I reply, and I didn't say squat about only accomplishing anything by trains... I'm FOR the people that choose to utilize their personal vehicle; I'm not about getting those people out of their cars like you are....

 

Now Answer the question & stop skirting around the issue...

 

What points of interest do you plan on sending these routes in that part of Nassau county that's gonna take all these people out of their cars that want nothing to do with public transportation?

did you not read in NICE thread? That line gets restructured to rush hour it doesn't need off-peak service. but the rush service gets upgraded at the expense of weekend service. N74 read it I think you know what I said. Can we just drop the nassau issue? Err we already established most here myself included don't care about neg reps especially lilbluefoxie who was getting roasted earlier. Just read I explained it there. Yes some like the N80 and N51 need to bite the dust.

[B35 via Church]

err I've been to these areas the traffic patterns are completely different from these routes if they don't change then they deserve oblivion. I don't make silly ideas I just take concepts and refine them don't give a crap. How I came up with that as a solution is simple those buses just don't go anywhere of interest. Sunrise mall is basically dead. S broadway has business parks one problem hourly service is useless especially if the line doesn't even go through many residential areas. A bus that only goes to the LIRR from residential areas should run like W65/64 in order to be useful otherwise your wasting resources on

off-peak service hours that carry nobody when those resources should be for rush peak trains when demand is highest not at midday for steady consistent service people are not using. It's schedule makes no sense. However there is an alternative one can use N70/72 to farmingdale for LIRR both more frequent than useless /N73/74.

 

 

did you not read in NICE thread? That line gets restructured to rush hour it doesn't need off-peak service. but the rush service gets upgraded at the expense of weekend service. N74 read it I think you know what I said. Can we just drop the nassau issue? Err we already established most here myself included don't care about neg reps especially lilbluefoxie who was getting roasted earlier. Just read I explained it there. Yes some like the N80 and N51 need to bite the dust.

I'm sure you would like this to be dropped.... You're not being much of a "transitmaster" right now, QJT....

Can't even answer a simple question regarding your own solution - How pathetic.

 

YOU brought up points of "interest"... That was your solution to getting people on those buses in that part of the county...

 

So Answer... the... question....

[qjtransitmaster]

Better marketing of buses at the LIRR stations. Many LIRR users just don't know much about NICE. Then adjust those lines to hours with the highest demand yes saturday service will get purged from N73 but you know there is no demand when you don't even see cars on the roads in high numbers outside rush. If N74 's ridership increases it can keep off-peak service if not it will just be a double ended line timed with peak LIRR trains at both stations. There are business parks on S broadway and you give N jerusalem bus service to boot. Yes N50 goes bye bye and merged with N79 which won't even add much run time to N79 anyway now plainview has one seat service to link with hempstead tpk lines. N73 loses its off peak service to concentrate solely on linking to LIRR. Also reroute of N46 goes to roosevelt field. N74 will end at freeport or absorb N62's industrial service now granting locals access to local industrial parks and connections to other buses. So what was once a 3 bus HELL is reduced to 2 seat timed ride or just a one seat. Bye bye N80. Due to N79/78 to avoid overserving newbridge N49 takes jerusalem granting access to hospitals and front street directly from that area and one seat service to jericho quad. Buses will coordinate at hicksville if they ALL focus on LIRR rush hr. N46 can be erased but yeah. Better structure will make the bus easier to use but marketing and getting the message out is key like let LIRR trains announce bus connections at each station via MTA cooperation. Otherwise it is hopeless and all this restructuring does is consolidate resources. And make buses more crowded via eliminating weak lines like N80/51& 50.

[bobtehpanda]

Wow, I missed a thread like this?  Surprised no one brought this up to me since I'm sure everyone thinks I'm pro-car.

 

First off:

 

 

I somewhat agree with this and disagree with this.  I do agree that probably most people in the burbs would prefer a car over mass transit. (Assumption of course, don't know too many people out there but of the ones I do know, they all prefer cars unless it's into the city.)  The part I partially disagree with is the pricing of the gas, to me and some other fellow employees and friends/family, it won't matter if the gas was $4.80 a gallon; They would ultimately prefer the car still over mass transportation.  Again that's if they are traveling into parts where driving a car is illogical, say the city, etc.

 

Secondly, the back and forth discussion was amusing at first then I just gave up after 3 pages.

 

Some things I noticed though, I actually didn't know the DOT (presuming) takes funds out of the MTA to repair roads and such.  If that's true then damn that sucks.  [Of course if I was reading the text in the past pages correctly.]

 

MTA controlled bridges and tunnels using their toll funds to help out other MTA things seems reasonably enough but I think priority should benefit the roads of the bridge/tunnels then the rest of the MTA.  Personal opinion, that's all.

 

I might have to read more of pages 4-present 6 since I stopped in the middle of 3.  But those were some things I wanted to point out.

 

 

It's less DOT and more of the state taking taxes collected from the city and the "dedicated" MTA taxes to paper over both the fact that the transportation fund is insolvent (the gas tax hasn't been raised in ages, and inflation + fuel efficient cars + less driving has taken its toll), and to paper over the general state budget. There was a "transit lockbox" bill a while back that would've required the state to send media outlets detailed reports of the effects of diverting dedicated MTA taxes, to prevent this sort of budgetary raid (California recently implemented something like this) but Cuomo gutted it, despite it passing both houses almost unanimously in its unaltered form.

 

Better marketing of buses at the LIRR stations. Many LIRR users just don't know much about NICE. Then adjust those lines to hours with the highest demand yes saturday service will get purged from N73 but you know there is no demand when you don't even see cars on the roads in high numbers outside rush. If N74 's ridership increases it can keep off-peak service if not it will just be a double ended line timed with peak LIRR trains at both stations. There are business parks on S broadway and you give N jerusalem bus service to boot. Yes N50 goes bye bye and merged with N79 which won't even add much run time to N79 anyway now plainview has one seat service to link with hempstead tpk lines. N73 loses its off peak service to concentrate solely on linking to LIRR. Also reroute of N46 goes to roosevelt field. N74 will end at freeport or absorb N62's industrial service now granting locals access to local industrial parks and connections to other buses. So what was once a 3 bus HELL is reduced to 2 seat timed ride or just a one seat. Bye bye N80. Due to N79/78 to avoid overserving newbridge N49 takes jerusalem granting access to hospitals and front street directly from that area and one seat service to jericho quad. Buses will coordinate at hicksville if they ALL focus on LIRR rush hr. N46 can be erased but yeah. Better structure will make the bus easier to use but marketing and getting the message out is key like let LIRR trains announce bus connections at each station via MTA cooperation. Otherwise it is hopeless and all this restructuring does is consolidate resources. And make buses more crowded via eliminating weak lines like N80/51& 50.

 

If your point is that regional transit agencies need a better image, then I guess that's an arguable point. That being said, nothing you do will ever increase ridership significantly on most suburban routes, because it's impossible to create a high-demand route when residential houses are usually on winding roads or cul-de-sacs, most commercial areas are separated by about 300 feet of parking lot from the nearest curb, crosswalks are an afterthought or non-existent, sidewalks are narrow or lacking, street furniture is basically non-existent, and traffic is passing by at 40+ MPH without the protection of a parking lane even though the posted speed is 30. Even if you marketed a suburban route, most people would drive because driving 2 miles to the nearest supermarket is much faster, more convenient, and less dangerous than an equivalent trip on mass transit. The majority of suburbs are designed for regular automobile usage - don't try to fit a circle into a square.

[Culver]

There was a "transit lockbox" bill a while back that would've required the state to send media outlets detailed reports of the effects of diverting dedicated MTA taxes, to prevent this sort of budgetary raid (California recently implemented something like this) but Cuomo gutted it, despite it passing both houses almost unanimously in its unaltered form.

Which is why there is no mass transit future. Politicians don't care and kick the can down the road for the next guy to deal with the issue. It's been happening like this since the early 20th century when "vote for me because I kept the fares unreasonably low" politicians ran the subway companies into bankruptcy and then repeated the process again in the 50s through 80s. They'll do the same with this generation. By the time the subways are back in the shitter, all the current politicians will be retired or working as lobbyists somewhere; not their problem.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Which is why there is no mass transit future. Politicians don't care and kick the can down the road for the next guy to deal with the issue. It's been happening like this since the early 20th century when "vote for me because I kept the fares unreasonably low" politicians ran the subway companies into bankruptcy and then repeated the process again in the 50s through 80s. They'll do the same with this generation. By the time the subways are back in the shitter, all the current politicians will be retired or working as lobbyists somewhere; not their problem.

Exactly why NJ's bus system has parts of it that are so messed up. That's another reason that buses in burbs aren't used much. The funding for them is so low, they can't even make mass transit look like it plays a key role in the community. They make it seem like a waste of state money.

 

The only association to transport that most politicians care about is the roads. Let's take the Port Authority for example, whenever you hear something related to transport with them, it's most likely about fixing the roads. You barely see them include the PATH when it comes to renovations. Another example is Governor Christie. He took the money he got back from the canned ARC Tunnel (which Amtrak is handling now) and used it to repair the roads. And not a single cent went to doing anything to help NJ Transit.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Exactly why NJ's bus system has parts of it that are so messed up. That's another reason that buses in burbs aren't used much. The funding for them is so low, they can't even make mass transit look like it plays a key role in the community. They make it seem like a waste of state money.

 

The only association to transport that most politicians care about is the roads. Let's take the Port Authority for example, whenever you hear something related to transport with them, it's most likely about fixing the roads. You barely see them include the PATH when it comes to renovations. Another example is Governor Christie. He took the money he got back from the canned ARC Tunnel (which Amtrak is handling now) and used it to repair the roads. And not a single cent went to doing anything to help NJ Transit.

Well at least it went to something transit related... Fixing the roads does help NJT since it means less wear and tear on the buses...

[bobtehpanda]

Well at least it went to something transit related... Fixing the roads does help NJT since it means less wear and tear on the buses...

 

As a clarification, a large portion of this cost is actually going to "fixing" the fact that the New Jersey Turnpike is only six lanes in some places.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As a clarification, a large portion of this cost is actually going to "fixing" the fact that the New Jersey Turnpike is only six lanes in some places.

And that's a good thing...

[qjtransitmaster]

It's less DOT and more of the state taking taxes collected from the city and the "dedicated" MTA taxes to paper over both the fact that the transportation fund is insolvent (the gas tax hasn't been raised in ages, and inflation + fuel efficient cars + less driving has taken its toll), and to paper over the general state budget. There was a "transit lockbox" bill a while back that would've required the state to send media outlets detailed reports of the effects of diverting dedicated MTA taxes, to prevent this sort of budgetary raid (California recently implemented something like this) but Cuomo gutted it, despite it passing both houses almost unanimously in its unaltered form.

 

 

If your point is that regional transit agencies need a better image, then I guess that's an arguable point. That being said, nothing you do will ever increase ridership significantly on most suburban routes, because it's impossible to create a high-demand route when residential houses are usually on winding roads or cul-de-sacs, most commercial areas are separated by about 300 feet of parking lot from the nearest curb, crosswalks are an afterthought or non-existent, sidewalks are narrow or lacking, street furniture is basically non-existent, and traffic is passing by at 40+ MPH without the protection of a parking lane even though the posted speed is 30. Even if you marketed a suburban route, most people would drive because driving 2 miles to the nearest supermarket is much faster, more convenient, and less dangerous than an equivalent trip on mass transit. The majority of suburbs are designed for regular automobile usage - don't try to fit a circle into a square.

At least my plan consolidates routes and allows NICE to cover more with less. Even if you have to boost high ridership lines and kill off weak lines completely via merging them piece by piece with other routes that are a bit stronger. You do realize the areas served by N74/73 are infact residential and practically deserted and yet they do have sidewalks along most of the roads I know I walked over there. The dangerous highway you are mentioning is hempstead tpk which has frequent bus service via N70/71/72.

 

And that's a good thing...

true that NJT and suburban will have more space to go vroom vroom.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

At least my plan consolidates routes and allows NICE to cover more with less. Even if you have to boost high ridership lines and kill off weak lines completely via merging them piece by piece with other routes that are a bit stronger. You do realize the areas served by N74/73 are infact residential and practically deserted and yet they do have sidewalks along most of the roads I know I walked over there. The dangerous highway you are mentioning is hempstead tpk which has frequent bus service via N70/71/72.

 

 

true that NJT and suburban will have more space to go vroom vroom.

Not only that but smooth roads means quicker smoother rides and less wear and tear on the buses and on personal vehicles.

[qjtransitmaster]

Not only that but smooth roads means quicker smoother rides and less wear and tear on the buses and on personal vehicles.

lower maintenance costs to boot yay better roads!!!!!