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-CT1660-

Retired South Ferry Station May Reopen Temporarily

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From the New York Times:

 

When a gleaming new subway station opened at South Ferry in 2009, at a cost of over $500 million, its rickety forebear faded into retirement beneath the streets of Lower Manhattan.

 
But on Tuesday, more than three months after Hurricane Sandy hit Manhattan and doomed the new station to what could be a three-year rebuilding job, officials said its predecessor could be called back into service as a temporary replacement.
 
“We can’t have the impacts that people are experiencing today take many months,” Thomas F. Prendergast, the interim executive director of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said at a City Council hearing on Tuesday. “That’s just too hard.”
 
South Ferry is the last stop on the No. 1 train and a critical connection for Staten Island Ferry riders. In its absence, commuters must either walk to the No. 1 at Rector Street, use the R train at Whitehall Street, or take the No. 4 or 5 train at Bowling Green.
 

Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/nyregion/mta-may-reopen-old-south-ferry-station-temporarily.html?partner=socialflow&smid=tw-nytmetro&_r=0

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I say keep it closed and let passengers use the alternatives.  The amount of money that would be needed to rehab the old South Ferry station would not be worth it.  I'm not seeing how this is any different from the other stations down there that were closed like Cortlandt St.

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I say keep it closed and let passengers use the alternatives.  The amount of money that would be needed to rehab the old South Ferry station would not be worth it.  I'm not seeing how this is any different from the other stations down there that were closed like Cortlandt St.

 

The station is quite intact, and the alternatives won't be able to support the ridership for long. Cortlandt Street was more or less destroyed in the 9/11 attacks, and they plan to reopen it in the future anyway, so that doesn't really count. It is in the middle of Ground Zero, after all.

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The station is quite intact, and the alternatives won't be able to support the ridership for long. Cortlandt Street was more or less destroyed in the 9/11 attacks, and they plan to reopen it in the future anyway, so that doesn't really count. It is in the middle of Ground Zero, after all.

You make it sound like they can open the old South Ferry in a giffy and poof all is well, when in fact that is not the case.  I used to use the old South Ferry station for years and it was dark and cramped.  That station was not just left as is.  It was demoed partially so they would have to re-do that station at least cosmetically and then some.  I'm sure the re-do would cost millions and I think that money can be better spent elsewhere, not unless the (MTA) can be reimbursed for it through insurance claims.  If that's the case and it doesn't cost them anything, then sure go on ahead and get the station up and running, but it shouldn't be done on taxpayer dollars.

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I say reopen it. It's a big inconvience to have to walk to Rector or get to the (R), (4) or (5). I took the (1) from my home stop in Dyckman all the way down to Rector and passed through the old stop and it didn't look so bad. 

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>Inb4 Wallyhorse and his idea to restore the Bowling green-south ferry shuttle.

 

 

Anyways, i think this is a good idea. I mean, 3 years is a very long time and a huge inconvenience to those that take the ferry and need 7th ave service daily. Even though restoring the decommissioned station might be costly, it would be a good investment to have for future G.O's needing the new south ferry closed. 

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I have mixed feelings about this. But I want to see this for myself. The station loop is an great emergency back-up for the convenience. "Temporary? Two-three years? No problem with me."

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I say no. Keep using Rector, Whitehall, or Bowling Green. A little extra walk won't kill you.

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The station is already there, the (MTA) says it can reopen it, let them do it. Why ask the question when its gonna help riders already with where they're going and the transfers they need?

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I say no. Keep using Rector, Whitehall, or Bowling Green. A little extra walk won't kill you.

What about elderly or disabled people that can't make that ''little extra walk''?

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What about elderly or disabled people that can't make that ''little extra walk''?

 

Well, there is no elevator/escalator at the old station anyway since IIRC, it was never ADA accessible....(this is just assuming that some of said folks can actually walk up the stairs)

 

If not, you got the M5, M15 & M20(which runs alongside/near the (1) and the (R), which I believe Whitehall has both.

 

I swear, people(not you) keep forgetting that the (R) actually goes there too.....

Edited by Cait Sith
Typos
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What about elderly or disabled people that can't make that ''little extra walk''?

I guess your forgot about those with Wheelchairs....

 

South Ferry Loop Terminal isn't an ADA Accessible Station, unlike the 2009 one. So I don't know if that will need to be included in the restoration. Yeah you can grab the (4)(5) and (R) Trains, which already have elevators... But who knows if Disbaled riders will not be happy for no direct ADA (1) access. The bus is also an alternative, but I don't know the numbers of wheelchair passengers, or those who really want to use an elevator to get in the Subway.

 

BTW I do a lot of walking, and it doesn't bother me to walk, if the loop remains closed.. Everyone else, alternaives are already in place. But whatever floats the T/A....

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I guess your forgot about those with Wheelchairs....

 

South Ferry Loop Terminal isn't an ADA Accessible Station, unlike the 2009 one. So I don't know if that will need to be included in the restoration. Yeah you can grab the (4)(5) and (R) Trains, which already have elevators... But who knows if Disbaled riders will not be happy for no direct ADA (1) access. The bus is also an alternative, but I don't know the numbers of wheelchair passengers, or those who really want to use an elevator to get in the Subway.

 

BTW I do a lot of walking, and it doesn't bother me to walk, if the loop remains closed.. Everyone else, alternaives are already in place. But whatever floats the T/A....

I include wheelchair in disabled people. 

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You never said Wheelchair. But regardless, you may need an elevator at the loop (Dk how that will work..), even if alternatives are in place. You don't want to hear Wheelchaired (1) passengers (again don't know the numbers) complaining for no direct access to the line. Yeah it may not happen so soon, but who knows if that I'll happen. People always complain for so much BS, even the littlest.

Edited by mark1447
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I'm glad some of you see the logic here. I wasn't even thinking about decrepit people and wheelchairs. But great points of them HAVING TO WALK/WHEEL OR BUS ANYWAY.

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You make it sound like they can open the old South Ferry in a giffy and poof all is well, when in fact that is not the case.  I used to use the old South Ferry station for years and it was dark and cramped.  That station was not just left as is.  It was demoed partially so they would have to re-do that station at least cosmetically and then some.  I'm sure the re-do would cost millions and I think that money can be better spent elsewhere, not unless the (MTA) can be reimbursed for it through insurance claims.  If that's the case and it doesn't cost them anything, then sure go on ahead and get the station up and running, but it shouldn't be done on taxpayer dollars.

 

Two thumbs up, I have to agree with you on this one.

 

As was discussed to the point it was akin to beating a dead horse before, according to transit worker inside information even though the tracks and signals itself is in good working order for (2) and (5) turnarounds to it's respective IRT trunk lines, the station itself was already dismantled. No booths, no fare collection system in place, platform gates dismantled, and the station has to be modified to ADA accessibility standards. Which is costly and will take several months maybe even up to a year!! But the fact that some officials in the MTA is even considering this says alot because they all well know how much of a gartuntian like engineering effort it will take to rebuild the new South Ferry Station and get it going again in 3 years.

 

Originally my arguement was to keep the loop closed but every time the MTA has it's press confrences with the media they paint an ever more gloomy picture of what to expect in terms of cost to bring back the new South Ferry Station in 3 years as a projected date. It may even take longer than that. So yes indeed the costs in overhauling the old South Ferry Station are high, but so is the costs of rebuilding the new one without any travel alternatives to the SI Ferry. It's a catch 22 VG8. No matter where the MTA goes with this it's going to hurt our wallets and pocketbooks in terms of tax dollars.

 

They are even considering shuttle bus service as an alternative, but it is not feasible due to capacity problems, so that's off the table. So they have two options, as we wait for the reconstruction of the new SF station, that will cost us in tax dollars regardless: 1) Do nothing or 2) Overhaul and reopen the old SF loop.

 

No foamerizm here guys,I am just giving you my usual angry straphanger extremist point of view. Have a nice day.

Edited by realizm

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Like i said before: if the politicians demands the loop platform to reopen, chances are it probably will. Never discount political pressure especially when you have a bunch of commuters bitching for some sort of normalcy.

Edited by Grand Concourse
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You never said Wheelchair. But regardless, you may need an elevator at the loop (Dk how that will work..), even if alternatives are in place. You don't want to hear Wheelchaired (1) passengers (again don't know the numbers) complaining for no direct access to the line. Yeah it may not happen so soon, but who knows if that I'll happen. People always complain for so much BS, even the littlest.

 

 

I read the article and it said the station only can serve the first 5  cars, and that's my only issue. Trains will be overcrowded, so what I was thinking is that they'll need to extend the station to accomodate all 10 cars and make it wheelchair accessible when they extend it.

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I heard the gap fillers were removed from the old loop station, so I don't think they should reopen it.

You'd know this better than me, but couldn't they put them back?

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I read the article and it said the station only can serve the first 5 cars, and that's my only issue. Trains will be overcrowded, so what I was thinking is that they'll need to extend the station to accomodate all 10 cars and make it wheelchair accessible when they extend it.

Thats why the 2009 South Ferry was opened, to handle more cars. The Old loop can't be extended. Even if it were possible, you will have gaps around.

I heard the gap fillers were removed from the old loop station, so I don't think they should reopen it.

I also heard the fare control was removed. Edited by mark1447

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Like i said before: if the politicians demands the loop platform to reopen, chances are it probably will. Never discount political pressure especially when you have a bunch of commuters bitching for some sort of normalcy.

And it would not surprise me the (MTA) would be reopening the station under the threat of being taken to court if they didn't. 

 

Of course, I would never have closed the old station in the first place, but rather had the necessary ADA work done there and at Bowling Green to turn the station over to the Lexington line once the current South Ferry station opened for the (1), with the BG-SF shuttle weekdays from 5:30 AM-approximately 7:30-9:00 PM, the (6) at all other times terminating at old SF and the (5) joining it when not running to Brooklyn.  Currently in that setup, the (1) would obviously be also running there.

 

Also, there was a plan (I would assume before the current (1) station was built) that would have actually extended the old station as noted here (WARNING! PDF File):

 

http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sft/documents/figures/fig08_platform_extension_alernative%20.pdf

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And it would not surprise me the (MTA) would be reopening the station under the threat of being taken to court if they didn't. 

 

Of course, I would never have closed the old station in the first place, but rather had the necessary ADA work done there and at Bowling Green to turn the station over to the Lexington line once the current South Ferry station opened for the (1), with the BG-SF shuttle weekdays from 5:30 AM-approximately 7:30-9:00 PM, the (6) at all other times terminating at old SF and the (5) joining it when not running to Brooklyn.  Currently in that setup, the (1) would obviously be also running there.

 

Also, there was a plan (I would assume before the current (1) station was built) that would have actually extended the old station as noted here (WARNING! PDF File):

 

http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sft/documents/figures/fig08_platform_extension_alernative%20.pdf

Must've been a while ago as the (9) was still in use.

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I read the article and it said the station only can serve the first 5  cars, and that's my only issue. Trains will be overcrowded, so what I was thinking is that they'll need to extend the station to accomodate all 10 cars and make it wheelchair accessible when they extend it.

Which is impossible due to switches at both ends of the station.

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