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-CT1660-

Retired South Ferry Station May Reopen Temporarily

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A little walking can't do you any harm... cmon you guys. I have a little story to tell:

 

At 14th street during Sandy, I remember waiting at Union Sq to take the M14A bus down to LES just go give my elderly grandma a few supplies (she refused to move out). Next to me was this old lady who was using a walker and had a hard time getting on the bus, and even had a hard time trying to sit down without letting go of her walker (else she would have fallen.) 20 minute later as we approach the Lower East Side, I remember that lady telling the driver to let her off at Clinton St instead of Pitt St, where she was headed to. She said that she needed to walk and the exercise would be good for her.

 

If that old lady on the walker could have gotten off the bus one stop before her normal stop and walk all the way back to her home, then I'm damn sure the rest of you people would be able to walk the extra few blocks, no matter how long of a day you had.

Especially after hunting down buses and trains all day...

 

...yup, I went there

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Guest Lance

Guys, it's not even about the walking. It's about reopening a station that is vital, both for lower Manhattan as well as commuters coming from Statem Island via the ferry. Prenderghast (sp?) hit the nail on the head with his remarks. It would be unfair to keep the station closed until the stub platforms are rehabbed, whether it takes a year or up to three as originally speculated. Not when the loop platform is in a decent enough shape to be utilized. Yes, it's not an ideal solution, but neither is leaving half of the complex closed indefinitely.

 

As for the idea to extend the loop platform to hold a full-length train, I can almost guarantee that won't happen. You want to know why? The costs of such an expenditure won't be covered by the Sandy relief funds from the feds. And I don't see the MTA footing the bill for such a project. Not for one they'll never see the revenue from. I also don't see the residents and commuters in the area putting up with another long term project-related shutdowns of the 1 line. Not after having to deal with the coming shutdowns related to getting the stub platform back in service or having had to deal with the ones related to its construction in the first damn place.

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Guys, it's not even about the walking. It's about reopening a station that is vital, both for lower Manhattan as well as commuters coming from Statem Island via the ferry. Prenderghast (sp?) hit the nail on the head with his remarks. It would be unfair to keep the station closed until the stub platforms are rehabbed, whether it takes a year or up to three as originally speculated. Not when the loop platform is in a decent enough shape to be utilized. Yes, it's not an ideal solution, but neither is leaving half of the complex closed indefinitely.

 

Good to know I'm not the only one trying to explain a plainly obvious common sense concept until I'm blue in the face wearing out my keyboard in an internet rage in the process....

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And the station was used for decades and there wasn't much complaints about it. Bowling green is there. If they reopen the loop, it's temporary, why would they need to install a brand new elevator for 2~ years? So as far as the Ada issue goes, they would just use the alternatives as if the SF loop station was never opened.

Edited by Grand Concourse

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I mean it's an actual anti-foamerisic no brainer of a concept. If anyone can put 2 and 2 together and actually make it 4 (four yes four not six or ten) then I would think that opening up the old SF station in a matter of some months would be the obvious solution. I back up the MTA 100% in their proposal opposed to other alternatives on the table at Madison in Manhattan that this would be an obvious solution is to reopen the station if it wasn't foir the cash factor. Only five car capacity is nothing new to hardcore New Yorkers, My god that was such a redundant argument.



And the station was used for decades and there wasn't much complaints about it. Bowling green is there. If they reopen the loop, it's temporary, why would they need to install a brand new elevator for 2~ years? So as far as the Ada issue goes, they would just use the alternatives as if the SF loop station was never opened.

 

Political red tape stemming from the Americans with Disabilities Act being overplayed in the wake of this whole mess?

Edited by realizm

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Guest Lance

Aaaaaaaand we still have the ADA problem.

I just said it's not an ideal solution. Neither is waiting for the new station to reopen.

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I just said it's not an ideal solution. Neither is waiting for the new station to reopen.

 

Some of the ultra PC extremists Lance that we deal with here on the internet, I feel your pain. Believe me.

Edited by realizm

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I don't care if the old station is re-opened or not but I SMH at the amount of lazy, out of shape, people in NYC these days. I doubt there are many posters out here who remember when there were very few free transfers between the IND,BMT,and IRT at all. Guess what? People actually walked to their destination when necessary.  No free transfer, no wheelchair bus ? WALK. Now we have car-centric posters complaining about walking a few city blocks, like they were climbing the Matterhorn or something. I'd wager that at least 75% of the riders walk that far every day to their nearest bus stop or train station and I don't hear the same sort of outcry for them. I will point out that the old loop station can't be extended to platform 10 cars because of the track layout so cross that option out. If the (MTA) can restore some sort of service to the old station with little or no expenditure of their own money perhaps it's worth doing. I don't intend to trivialize the plight of the elderly and/or handicapped but what do you posters think they were doing before the new station was opened? I don't recall them bitching and moaning about access to the ferry terminal from Bowling Green. Just my opinion folks. Carry on.

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I don't care if the old station is re-opened or not but I SMH at the amount of lazy, out of shape, people in NYC these days. I doubt there are many posters out here who remember when there were very few free transfers between the IND,BMT,and IRT at all. Guess what? People actually walked to their destination when necessary.  No free transfer, no wheelchair bus ? WALK. Now we have car-centric posters complaining about walking a few city blocks, like they were climbing the Matterhorn or something. I'd wager that at least 75% of the riders walk that far every day to their nearest bus stop or train station and I don't hear the same sort of outcry for them. I will point out that the old loop station can't be extended to platform 10 cars because of the track layout so cross that option out. If the (MTA) can restore some sort of service to the old station with little or no expenditure of their own money perhaps it's worth doing. I don't intend to trivialize the plight of the elderly and/or handicapped but what do you posters think they were doing before the new station was opened? I don't recall them bitching and moaning about access to the ferry terminal from Bowling Green. Just my opinion folks. Carry on.

T*R*U*T*H

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Gonna have to agree with Trainmaster here, before the ADA got that Disability Law passed it was straight stairs with everything... Stairs for the subways, stairs for the buses... Before many of the stations were interconnected with tunnels and crap you had to do out of system transfers, yes step out and walk that extra block or two. Reminds me of the transfer between Port Authority and Times Square, its a lengthy walk between the Eighth Avenue platform and the Times Square station. 

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And the station was used for decades and there wasn't much complaints about it. Bowling green is there. If they reopen the loop, it's temporary, why would they need to install a brand new elevator for 2~ years? So as far as the Ada issue goes, they would just use the alternatives as if the SF loop station was never opened.

So if that's the case, why can't able bodied people walk to alternatives too?

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This is why I saw that station lit up last time I passed this place. The station itself was in the process of being cleaned and the CCTV Cameras that the conductor uses were on strangely. 

 

Personally I don't think this station is going to see that much traffic if it does get re-opened because if you walk to Rector street and use the South Ferry bound entrance, which was formally and exit, you don't have to pay a fare to get into the system. When most able bodied people catch on to this they probably would want to go there instead of the crappy loop terminal- I mean at least I would. :)

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Pretty much all this promotion of using mass transport and making walking seem like a big deal is all based on the idea of consumption....we all consume transportation if we aren't using our own two legs to go on the move....

 

as i would quote from the book Brave New World, "Don't delay, consume today!"

Edited by -CT1660-

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So if that's the case, why can't able bodied people walk to alternatives too?

But why does it have to be all or nothing? If the majority are able bodied and demands the loop station to reopen, why must it be halted/delayed because it doesn't have elevators? I think the overall goal is to minimize the inconvenience especially in weather like this. The old loop stop had its entrance inside the ferry terminal building and kept the riders safe from the elements outside. Even the new station required ppl to walk outside to get into the building. Yes, they still have Bowling Green as well as Whitehall for alternatives as well.

 

I am not saying it has to be reopened because it must, but with the way politicians work, they will make statements like that to appease their voters. And practically speaking, I don't see elevators being added in for a couple of years.

=

As for the future: If another Sandy type superstorm hits that area again, I have to cast doubt on the Feds spending another several hundred million to restore the station. At that point how much is it too much for that single station before the MTA is forced to call it a waste?

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So much redundancy in this conversation. I work on the (1) line, the loop track will be reopened, when is the question. They are working rather quickly though. The gap fillers have already been put back together, and are currently on manual mode. The platform is being rehabbed. For those talking about an extension, the station CAN NOT be extended, there is no space to do so. Only 5 cars on a sharp curve.

 

As it will be a temporary fix the ADA issue doesn't apply, there are alternatives to cover that. NYers dealt with the 5 car loop for years before new South Ferry, it's the tourists that will be stuck in the rear 5 not realizing they won't get out. But that's where the old stickers on the train pointing this out will return.

 

There is an exit from the loop station that leads to the mezzanine of the new South Ferry/Whitehall complex. This will most likely be used to keep the transfer to the (R) and bring you closer to the ferry terminal.

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One thing we have to be thankful for is that they didn't demolish the signals there also.Otherwise (1) 's would be going to New Lots.(Which could be a good thing depending how you look at it.)

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One thing we have to be thankful for is that they didn't demolish the signals there also.Otherwise (1) 's would be going to New Lots.(Which could be a good thing depending how you look at it.)

 

Sending the  (1) out to ZooLots solves nothing.

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I love how lots here are arguing that alternaties and walking are no big deal. they are right. BUT.....

 

....ever heard the saying " nothing is faster than a New York Minute"?

Follow me on this. SI has one of the longest average commutes in the city. I can sympathize. While living in Far Rock for 2 decades, my commutes have been more than average. Far Rock to midtown, far rock to downtown, far rock to the bronx(Bronx Community College. Make that commute everyday). Most Staten Islanders have to take a bus, to the ferry then hop on a subway for the last leg of their commute. When making those long commutes, every minute counts. Bosses wont care. Appointment managers wont care. Teachers/principals wont care. And one can wake up earlier and earlier all they want, a delay in any way can happen for any amount of time and mess up one's entire day. Or even cause one to lose their job. Not everyoe has the funds for an express bus, cab, car, etc. I honestly see those here who say 'whats a minute or two walk? Stop being lazy" probably doesnt have their paycheck on the line while commuting for up to 2 hours for a job that doesnt provide for all their bills but can afford to just switch jobs. trust me on this. Put your feet on their shoes. I for one see the reopening of the old station something that will help riders till the new station reopens. ADA isnt needed. it wasnt a major issue for decades neither was the station length. Those veteran riders will be use to the 5-car limit. 

 

As far as the comment of taxpayer money, sure, i can see the logic in this. They opened a half-a-billion station in 09 and now they have to spend more money to recommission the old station for an up-to 3 year life span. But at the same time, these same taxpayers would want a South Ferry Station whether its old or new. And given how damaged a lot of residents lives have been since Sandy, im sure this will be a relief for them even if its a small one. Minutes can literary be the difference between getting a paycheck, and losing your home. 

 

Seriously, some of these 'arguments' here against the reopening are short minded.

 

On a lighter note, i like how someone jumped the gun about Wallyhorse and low and behold, there was Wallyhorse about bringing back the east side SF shuttle. talk about "beating a wallyhorse..." LOL

 

How about this, lets have someone hit their head on a toilet. So they can get a vision of a device. A device that they will put in a Car. And with some plutonium, have this vehicle hit 88 miles per hour. With Wallyhorse in it. And send it back to the year 1974. So that guy can gladly enjoy his SF-BG shuttle and please for the love of God stop suggesting the same dead issue over and over and over and over and over and over............

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I don't care if the old station is re-opened or not but I SMH at the amount of lazy, out of shape, people in NYC these days. I doubt there are many posters out here who remember when there were very few free transfers between the IND,BMT,and IRT at all. Guess what? People actually walked to their destination when necessary.  No free transfer, no wheelchair bus ? WALK. Now we have car-centric posters complaining about walking a few city blocks, like they were climbing the Matterhorn or something. I'd wager that at least 75% of the riders walk that far every day to their nearest bus stop or train station and I don't hear the same sort of outcry for them. I will point out that the old loop station can't be extended to platform 10 cars because of the track layout so cross that option out. If the (MTA) can restore some sort of service to the old station with little or no expenditure of their own money perhaps it's worth doing. I don't intend to trivialize the plight of the elderly and/or handicapped but what do you posters think they were doing before the new station was opened? I don't recall them bitching and moaning about access to the ferry terminal from Bowling Green. Just my opinion folks. Carry on.

So true... And for all of these people talking about oh well it's a "major stop" and how Staten Islanders so need that stop, let me tell you something.  I took the ferry for years as a Staten Island resident and did the whole bus-ferry subway set up and more times than not, I preferred NOT to use that South Ferry station (the old loop esp.) because the (1) would always be held at Chambers and then you would get to South Ferry just in time to miss the boat, so it would be better to use the Bowling Green station and just walk from there.  

 

For the ADA people, they can use the alternatives that they've used before, because even if they do open the old South Ferry terminal it won't be ADA accessible anyway, so that leaves the able bodied people... JUST WALK!! I can't believe the utter crappola (aka BS) that is being spewed about how long of a walk it is because it really isn't.  All of the fatties I see walking around could use the exercise anyway.  :lol:

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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So much redundancy in this conversation. I work on the (1) line, the loop track will be reopened, when is the question. They are working rather quickly though. The gap fillers have already been put back together, and are currently on manual mode. The platform is being rehabbed. For those talking about an extension, the station CAN NOT be extended, there is no space to do so. Only 5 cars on a sharp curve.

 

As it will be a temporary fix the ADA issue doesn't apply, there are alternatives to cover that. NYers dealt with the 5 car loop for years before new South Ferry, it's the tourists that will be stuck in the rear 5 not realizing they won't get out. But that's where the old stickers on the train pointing this out will return.

 

There is an exit from the loop station that leads to the mezzanine of the new South Ferry/Whitehall complex. This will most likely be used to keep the transfer to the (R) and bring you closer to the ferry terminal.

 

I for one am very excited for this. I never got a chance to look at the loop station when it was still open, so this reopening is akin to finding a time machine for a transit buff! :)

 

Thanks for keeping us in touch! Are there any estimated re-opening dates, or have they not come that far yet?

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