Retired South Ferry Station May Reopen Temporarily

[realizm]

^^It's a (concrete) jungle out there... I mean that literally. 

 

Lived there out on New Lots Ave a very long time ago (I mean a decade ago!)  for about say 6 months, before moving out to Pennsylvania when I was hit with hard times financially and needed a cheap place to live.  I enjoyed the West Indian and African atmosphere very much so, very culturally rich, but I'll admit myself it's a tough place to live in.

[Quill Depot]

I don't care if the old station is re-opened or not but I SMH at the amount of lazy, out of shape, people in NYC these days. I doubt there are many posters out here who remember when there were very few free transfers between the IND,BMT,and IRT at all. Guess what? People actually walked to their destination when necessary.  No free transfer, no wheelchair bus ? WALK. Now we have car-centric posters complaining about walking a few city blocks, like they were climbing the Matterhorn or something. I'd wager that at least 75% of the riders walk that far every day to their nearest bus stop or train station and I don't hear the same sort of outcry for them. I will point out that the old loop station can't be extended to platform 10 cars because of the track layout so cross that option out. If the can restore some sort of service to the old station with little or no expenditure of their own money perhaps it's worth doing. I don't intend to trivialize the plight of the elderly and/or handicapped but what do you posters think they were doing before the new station was opened? I don't recall them bitching and moaning about access to the ferry terminal from Bowling Green. Just my opinion folks. Carry on.

Read below

 

Guys, it's not even about the walking. It's about reopening a station that is vital, both for lower Manhattan as well as commuters coming from Statem Island via the ferry. Prenderghast (sp?) hit the nail on the head with his remarks. It would be unfair to keep the station closed until the stub platforms are rehabbed, whether it takes a year or up to three as originally speculated. Not when the loop platform is in a decent enough shape to be utilized. Yes, it's not an ideal solution, but neither is leaving half of the complex closed indefinitely.

 

As for the idea to extend the loop platform to hold a full-length train, I can almost guarantee that won't happen. You want to know why? The costs of such an expenditure won't be covered by the Sandy relief funds from the feds. And I don't see the MTA footing the bill for such a project. Not for one they'll never see the revenue from. I also don't see the residents and commuters in the area putting up with another long term project-related shutdowns of the 1 line. Not after having to deal with the coming shutdowns related to getting the stub platform back in service or having had to deal with the ones related to its construction in the first damn place.

[ttcsubwayfan]

I'm pretty sure that at least part of that post was referring to Foxie's complaint about how a block is SOO far and inconvenient.

[CenSin]

I forgot which poster it was, but he posted a link to how the station could have been extended.

Here you go:

http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sft/documents/figures/fig08_platform_extension_alernative .pdf

Looks like the platform could be moved to the straight part of the loop right before the tracks curve. The switch would then be moved north. I don't know why the MTA did go for that option; it looks cheap. However, the MTA will probably not give up its new terminal and will go further to flood-proof the station as much as possible. I would be shocked if the MTA revisited the old plans.

[NYCRailfan523]

That's why I hate the South Ferry threads. It's becoming a yes-no war zone. 

[ttcsubwayfan]

That's why I hate the South Ferry threads. It's becoming a yes-no war zone. 

 

It's no war zone. The station is being reopened regardless of whether or not people think it's a waste, or if the station is ugly, dingy and useless, and just like with the R62A migration to the , no amount of kicking, screaming or protesting is going to change it.

[LTA1992]

I used to travel a 2 1/2 hour commute everyday. That was when I was in school. That was less than a year ago. I still make regular 2 1/2 commutes for my many other appointments in Brooklyn and The Bronx. Every once in a while, that commute exceeds 3 hours. This is coming from someone that lives in Staten Island currently and travels frequently enough to know that a 4-6 minute walk to the nearest subway station from Whitehall is basically nothing within that time frame. I also observe enough to know that Staten Islanders aren't stupid and will time themselves accordingly to catch their ferry or train. Whether or not in involves having to get off a stop earlier because of natures fits of anger. I never hear anyone complain. They just do. Because they have to. That is why I don't think they should open the old South Ferry. You have to pull into the station around 10mph. Stop. Wait for gap fillers to come out. Open the doors. Wait for the crowds to get in the train. Close the door. Wait for gap fillers to retract. Depart at 10mph. How long does that take? Can someone give a general idea? Because this will also mean that less trains will have to run because of the capacity limiting Loop. That also means more people packed into a train. Which means a longer dwell time at SF. Well, there and Chambers Street.

 

And to the person who just mentioned the 62/142 swap, unlike reopening the SF loop, this serves a legitimate purpose and does not exist to "pacify" the masses.

[Grand Concourse]

That's why I hate the South Ferry threads. It's becoming a yes-no war zone. 

you are overblowing it. Unlike the r62a to the 6 threads where the topic is beaten to death despite confirmation the swap is happening regardless, this is just another debate which may or may not happen depending on what the mta decides to do.

[Quill Depot]

I used to travel a 2 1/2 hour commute everyday. That was when I was in school. That was less than a year ago. I still make regular 2 1/2 commutes for my many other appointments in Brooklyn and The Bronx. Every once in a while, that commute exceeds 3 hours. This is coming from someone that lives in Staten Island currently and travels frequently enough to know that a 4-6 minute walk to the nearest subway station from Whitehall is basically nothing within that time frame. I also observe enough to know that Staten Islanders aren't stupid and will time themselves accordingly to catch their ferry or train. Whether or not in involves having to get off a stop earlier because of natures fits of anger. I never hear anyone complain. They just do. Because they have to. That is why I don't think they should open the old South Ferry. You have to pull into the station around 10mph. Stop. Wait for gap fillers to come out. Open the doors. Wait for the crowds to get in the train. Close the door. Wait for gap fillers to retract. Depart at 10mph. How long does that take? Can someone give a general idea? Because this will also mean that less trains will have to run because of the capacity limiting Loop. That also means more people packed into a train. Which means a longer dwell time at SF. Well, there and Chambers Street.

 

And to the person who just mentioned the 62/142 swap, unlike reopening the SF loop, this serves a legitimate purpose and does not exist to "pacify" the masses.

 

Your talking about how SI'ers are fine walking and having a long commute, meanwhile your talking about how long it takes for the to arrive and depart. For the problem with gap fillers, it would still be faster than getting off at Rector or transferring to the and and taking it to Bowling Green. Gap fillers are currently in use at 14th Street-Union Square on the IRT express tracks, a station with 25 or so trains per hour of express service. They work fine there, and only cause minimal delays sometimes. The South Ferry station would therefore be better off being opened, rather than staying closed.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Not to mention, the 1 at the new station isn't that speedy either, presumably due to the bumper blocks. Comes in at around 10 mph, 5 seconds before the doors open (why??) and the departure is quite slow too.

[realizm]

Not to mention, the 1 at the new station isn't that speedy either, presumably due to the bumper blocks. Comes in at around 10 mph, 5 seconds before the doors open (why??) and the departure is quite slow too.

 

The new station has a  300' gap instead of tail tracks like most terminals. Therefore the engineers and architects called for timers to be installed as part of the station's design, to slow down trains to 10MPH on the trains heading inbound into the station as a safety measure to prevent accidents. Don't quote me on this, the transit workers would know for sure but I'm pretty certain that is the reason.

[realizm]

That's why I hate the South Ferry threads. It's becoming a yes-no war zone. 

 

It is what it is. This is the internet where people surf sites for the lutz. Everything is not peaches and cream, not that cut and dry.

 

In regards to some of the discussions we have here, you will need to be ready to be reinforce what you post with knowledge not just about trains and buses, but a thorough understanding of NYC and NYS politics, finances and public relations issues involved to be able to keep track of what's being revealed in such intelligent debates and discussions. There is alot of politicking and playing around with revenue and funding behind the scenes. That's where everyone is coming from here in this discussion, and well a person will need to have an iron stomach to be able to handle some of the responses.

 

You'll get the flow of things here don't worry. +1  for having the courage to voice out.

[Art Vandelay]

While we may know the reason behind the fleet switch, I assure you most riders do not see any real purpose. The South Ferry station, while certainly not as essential to the daily life of the city as many here have claimed, is still a station used by many passengers, for which it is a great convenience to have open. The old loop has a substantially greater capacity than the new station, so such is a nonfactor in making such decisions. 

[Quill Depot]

While we may know the reason behind the fleet switch, I assure you most riders do not see any real purpose. The South Ferry station, while certainly not as essential to the daily life of the city as many here have claimed, is still a station used by many passengers, for which it is a great convenience to have open. The old loop has a substantially greater capacity than the new station, so such is a nonfactor in making such decisions. 

 

This is not true. The new south ferry station supports about 7 more trains per hour

[realizm]

While we may know the reason behind the fleet switch, I assure you most riders do not see any real purpose. The South Ferry station, while certainly not as essential to the daily life of the city as many here have claimed, is still a station used by many passengers, for which it is a great convenience to have open. The old loop has a substantially greater capacity than the new station, so such is a nonfactor in making such decisions. 

 

This is not true. The new south ferry station supports about 7 more trains per hour

 

Then what was the point of the MTA constructing a new South Ferry station in the first place may I ask? Wasn't it so that they can increase the TPH on the in the first place hence the project among other reasons (handling increased capacity of riders boarding and departing the station)? My apologies Mr Vandeley, but I completely failed to comprehend with your reasoning on this.....

[Guest Lance]

While we may know the reason behind the fleet switch, I assure you most riders do not see any real purpose. The South Ferry station, while certainly not as essential to the daily life of the city as many here have claimed, is still a station used by many passengers, for which it is a great convenience to have open. The old loop has a substantially greater capacity than the new station, so such is a nonfactor in making such decisions.

 

This is not true. The new south ferry station supports about 7 more trains per hour

 

Then what was the point of the MTA constructing a new South Ferry station in the first place may I ask? Wasn't it so that they can increase the TPH on the in the first place hence the project among other reasons (handling increased capacity of riders boarding and departing the station)? My apologies Mr Vandeley, but I completely failed to comprehend with your reasoning on this.....

 

The reason behind the new South Ferry station was to have a station that could platform a full-length train. That's why earlier proposals included an extension of the loop platform.

[ttcsubwayfan]

I can see where Art is coming from - loops don't need to use crossovers, so trains wouldn't have to wait in the tunnel while another used the crossover.

[realizm]

The reason behind the new South Ferry station was to have a station that could platform a full-length train. That's why earlier proposals included an extension of the loop platform.

 

Yes I know that and so does Art Vandelay. His argument is involving higher station passenger capacity and of the higher rates in TPH with the old station which can only accomidate for 5 car local trains according to original IRT design a century ago as compared to the new station that was recently almost completely destroyed by Hurricane Sandy. The MTA tried to address those issues by building the new station, that was my point.

 

I can see where Art is coming from - loops don't need to use crossovers, so trains wouldn't have to wait in the tunnel while another used the crossover.

 

Which was innovative for it's time, indeed, but not according to the commuter's demands of today in 2013.

[Far Rock Depot]

Both stations have their pros and cons. The loop can turn trains around quicker and is physically closer to the terminal (with direct access inside the terminal. But its only a five car station, with a gap filler, and no ADA(like most of the system). The new Station can hold 2 10-car trains, has ADA access, and provides an in-system transfer to the BMT. But trains enter at 10MPH and trains may have to wait for a train crossing over. Both do offer one pro, service to a location where multiple transit options are available. But one thing is clear, a station at SF helps riders. Period. 

[realizm]

That's something to think about, what you just said Far Rock.

[ttcsubwayfan]

So with the reopening of the station at hand I have to ask about a reason which was cited by Snowblock for not reopening the station in the first place... Apparently the original entrance has a shop over it and the only connection that exists to the outside now is a small corridor to the mezzanine of the new station. How will they counter this, especially if the new station is closed?

 

 

because if you walk to Rector street and use the South

Ferry bound entrance, which was formally and exit, you don't have to pay
a fare to get into the system. When most able bodied people catch on to
this they probably would want to go there instead of the crappy loop
terminal- I mean at least I would.

 

Can you reword this? I have no idea what you are talking about here, and I have been to the station before (and found out about the lack of a cross under the hard way.)

[Quill Depot]

I can see where Art is coming from - loops don't need to use crossovers, so trains wouldn't have to wait in the tunnel while another used the crossover.

 

If scheduling is right, trains will not have to wait for the crossover.

[Far Rock Depot]

Last time i was at the South Ferry Terminal, the old entrance(loop station by the Escalators where passengers from arriving boats used), was boarded up. This was back in early December. 

[Grand Concourse]

The new station has a  300' gap instead of tail tracks like most terminals. Therefore the engineers and architects called for timers to be installed as part of the station's design, to slow down trains to 10MPH on the trains heading inbound into the station as a safety measure to prevent accidents. Don't quote me on this, the transit workers would know for sure but I'm pretty certain that is the reason.

I've been to the new station a few times and the gap b/w the stopping point and the bumpers isn't that big. Perhaps enough for half to 1 single car vs Flatbush av on the 2 where it's a few feet.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Last time i was at the South Ferry Terminal, the old entrance(loop station by the Escalators where passengers from arriving boats used), was boarded up. This was back in early December. 

 

No shop then? Interesting. Unless if it came up afterwards...